New solar crest is broken as fuck, 12 armor shift, 70 attack speed, and movement speed change? And the user only loses the 12 armor when it's active?
For less than 4k gold, you can permanently give your carry a consumed moonshard, windlace, and more than a platemail worth of armor for no mana with no downtime.
How does solar crest work on Dazzle? Can you cast it twice?
If yes, 3.8k item actually gives you:
+ 10 All Attributes
+ 6% Movement Speed
+ 1.5 Mana Regeneration
And as well as buff/debuff:
2x12 armor, 2x70 attack speed, and 2x10% movement speed
So counted together:
10 all stats
26% MS
1.5mana regen
24 armor
140AS
Calculated to the worth:
1x moonshard (4k)
1x ultimate orb (2.1k)
2.4 plate mails (3.3k)
boots and double windlace (1k)
Together around 10-11k worth of items in 1 item on one hero... :D 3x what it was originally purchased for.
Sounds like fun in some combo with slardar - slardar needs AS and having -32 armor and triple slow (poison touch 20%, crush 35% and crest 10%) looks like fun - enemy with 500 MS will be crawling 175MS). Btw those - armor would mean that terrorblade would have only the armor he bought through items.
- NONE of the reworks (except lich, deny mechanic too strong) MAKE ANY SENSE.
- mapchange = bullshit, why change?
- slark leach = op af, RIP supports
- new items = useless
- no change to brood (yesyes balanced hero yesyes)
====
i doubt it ICEFROG made this patch at all. Valve thanks for ruining this game.
Lich was completely destroyed by the patch, you don't remove his mana sustaining ability and make all his normal spells cost 150 mana on average with a 500 mana ult.
Lycan wasn't ever played for damage he was played for his cheese pushing ability. Yes he will be picked over nightstalker still. Nightstalker on the other hand is insane strong right now and I consider it first pick material.
Lich was one of my favorite heroes they completely butchered him. Sacrifice was what made lich lich. Ice armor was the buff for your whole team before you siege.
First, u cry about the patch being so dull and u want a change. Then u cry about the new patch being imba and broken, when they nerf the op heroes to ground you cry about nerfing the hero, Dota players never stop crying, and those who don't use the forums enjoy playing 😂
I spammed pudge before, and I'm spamming pudge now, killing Slark in the enemy team and making his life a misery! I don't see a problem with the patch other than the map looking so dumb and that Naga hero 😐
the game state was very balanced last patch, and very stale
the meta was defined already by multitude of bi-weekly balance patches since 7.14 to major balances toward the ti. into a time with no changes since then, that let the meta stabilize and be defined
well, the game became boring
laning stage is king, maximizing reliable with 2-1-2, focusing on the range creeps is everything
axe dominating offlanes and creepskip
phoenix terrorizes with spirits
terrorblade literally unkillable if backed by aghs weaver
centaur makes everyone ungankable
puck is long time dead
same shadow fiend, lone druid, etc'
we know how the meta plays out. it's stale
so this patch shakes things up. introduce major mechanic changes that changes the meta completely. this is now the time when the game is not balanced at all (ahem meepo). but yet to be figured out
so we play and discover it. and with some hot pathes (ahem meepo) the too troublesome would be nerfed. and than slowly the nerf balancing patches would be rolled out.
if we just keep getting balance changes, nerf after nerf. the game would keep gettig stale and boring, same strats all the time, no exciting new toys, just heroes getting dethroned again and again
this would be really boring and dwindle the player base
the game should keep healthy balance of shaking up everything once in a while and than balancing it down
so the game wouldnt be in an unplayable state but would stay fresh and not stale
Lich is still good. His frost armor rework is way too strong. Put it on axe or spectre and let them all thy enemies.
this is a big patch. not a small balance patch
Its a gigantic patch. Too many nonsense hero ability rework which is fine at it is. New items and map rework is enough. Editing more than 10 heroes at once is too much. The only rework that I see is fitting are Beastmaster, Earthspirit, and OD. Other are garbage reworks like (Meepo, Troll, and BH are the worst) that broken the game.
let the dust settle before you claim this is too big or something. 7.00 was much bigger than this
people said od got trashed, and he is already picked competitively constantly
people said drow got trashed, but are figuring out that her wave clear potential is huge
people said ogre is broken, yet his winrate plummeting. and he loses way more when you go for midas
od particularly looks like 6.86 all over again, where the damage moved from arcane orb to astral and int steal from astral to arcane. people said he is unplayable and trash, and than he dominated the entire meta alongside invoker
In exchange for giving up free mana to spam ice blast and multiple creeps denied which allows Lich to win most lanes and so he never has to return to base to regen: instead you get a damageless, longer cooldown, shorter duration shadow shaman shackles.
Hey, but Lich moves the enemy towards you! What play potentials! Like pudge!
Sure, it only "relocates" the enemy like 280 range max instead of 1300 of pudges, deals 0 damage instead of 360 pure, is channeling instead of instantly cast, has 30 second cooldown instead of 12 (4), but...you know what, never mind.
people said od got trashed, and he is already picked competitively constantly
Outworld is unplayable. I remember the days when Outworld had a >15% pick rate and was a reliable pub stomper. Nowadays hes amongst the absolute worst heros in the game. In general int carries are super weak atm and outworld is the weakest of them all.
The thing people are failing to notice is that Lich can finally interrupt a TP from level 1 by himself, so the amount of potential lane partners he can go with has increased significantly. The reworked frost armor is also lit enough that he really couldn't have kept Sacrifice.
The only problems I have with this patch are the hero reworks that were made to heroes that were fine where they were, especially the ones that made heroes worse. In my opinion hero reworks should only happen to heroes who are in dire need of a skill change to make them relevant or for skills that are inherently broken and hard to balance. They shouldn't happen to these heroes that are ok situational picks. That and the fact that several heroes that weren't in a good place got basically nothing. Like qop, what does minor knockback on her ult actually do for her. The hero has been underwhelming and out of meta for a long time and essentially didnt get anything.
I am very disappointed with clinkz as well bro while they made abbadon imbalance.. the neutral side offlane of the dire and the neutral side safelane of the radiant is very disappointing as well.. i don't know if i still want to play anymore bro :( ..i hope they will look forward to our concerns before they will patch the 7.21
The thing people are failing to notice is that Lich can finally interrupt a TP from level 1 by himself
How likely is that to happen? You get someone low enough at lvl 1 for them to try and tp away despite not having your nuke/slow leveled. New frost shield is cool, but gaze sucks, duration doesn't even go up by more than 1 second between lvl 1 and 4. A lot of supports have a longer disables than lich at lvl 1 that actually does damage as well.
High cooldown, high mana, no damage, single target, shit range, channeled taunt. Compare this to something like wraith king stun or ck stun and it's worse in every way. Why does the slow amount from gaze even increase if the target is just going to walk towards you for a set amount of time?
But are you going to level up gaze at lvl 1? Are you going to chase someone till they're on the verge of dying while doing nothing till they try to tp away?
and on a hero that previously had no hard disable and allows the hero to do something proactive to win teamfights in the mid and late game. Yeah the ability in a vacuum isnt a particularly amazing spell but it has a lot more effect in teamfights than sacrifice does. Giving a hero a disable rarely makes the hero worse.
No, but removing a very solid lane winning skill can make a hero worse.
His frost shield more than makes up for it though. Not to mention, it doesn't work against "the closest unit" as the tooltip says, but everyone in the area. AOE slow and damage.
Played a couple more games today and the more I play the more I realise that the reason this patch is shit is not because heros are necessarily more powerful but because everything is a chore to play against. Every single rework made their heros more annoying. It feels like every single game is against a team of nuisance picks.
But are you going to level up gaze at lvl 1? Are you going to chase someone till they're on the verge of dying while doing nothing till they try to tp away?
Gaze is just bad, it's shaman shackles with half the duration, no damage, and triple the cooldown.
No goddamit, the idea is that you no longer have to spend at least 2750 gold on a pos5 support for the ability to cancel a TP. Yes, the spell itself sucks balls, but you already have an early game nuke and a utility spell which scales much better than what it replaced.
Sure, now that he doesn't have a free deny + infinite mana, he won't win the lane as hard. But that was cheap as fuck, boring and made the hero pretty much useless mid to late game unless he had a fair number of items.
Garbage patch.... totally imbalanced heroes... I've been playing Dota 1 since 2005.... this is ridiculous... Instead of taking the game to the next level they are degrading it... in 2005 there was a version where Riki had crit x4, invis and sentry with 180 chaos dmg (WK ult)... Guess they are aiming to something similar...
Hope they fix it soon, huge nerf is needed on Anti-Mage, Ogre, Brew and Lion... Oh yeah... Slark permanent agi steal !? WTF?!
This post made me to login and say something to this topic. I stopped play this game 1 year ago and start watch only tournaments. After this patch came online i laughed for half hour and still cant believe what is going on. This game is ruined, srsly dunno how anyone still can enjoy it. There is still much more pleasures of life you can enjoy, Dota is none of them and this patch confirm my decision. Have a wonderful day all of you.
This new patch is completely unpredictable and chaotic. Just watch our 40k net worth lead and 4 remaining towers disappear in a single fight. I ward/deward (3-5k on vision per game), rotate, stack, communicate movements, even take the deaths to save the core so s/he can keep farming. I do everything i'm meant to do, but in this meta it doesn't matter.. all they do is pick one of these unbalanced agility heroes, stack the attack speed, go straight down mid and take the heart. Same thing every game. I haven't won a single solo ranked game since 7.20 was released. The worst part is that its taking nearly 15-20mins for me to find a solo ranked roles game as a support, then I spend 40mins in it only to lose. So I give up, no more ranked for me until things are fixed. I'll just spam Riki in unranked where nobody wards and be cancer. Much more enjoyable than losing every game as a good support XD
And timbersaw will be great
New solar crest is broken as fuck, 12 armor shift, 70 attack speed, and movement speed change? And the user only loses the 12 armor when it's active?
For less than 4k gold, you can permanently give your carry a consumed moonshard, windlace, and more than a platemail worth of armor for no mana with no downtime.
How does solar crest work on Dazzle? Can you cast it twice?
If yes, 3.8k item actually gives you:
+ 10 All Attributes
+ 6% Movement Speed
+ 1.5 Mana Regeneration
And as well as buff/debuff:
2x12 armor, 2x70 attack speed, and 2x10% movement speed
So counted together:
10 all stats
26% MS
1.5mana regen
24 armor
140AS
Calculated to the worth:
1x moonshard (4k)
1x ultimate orb (2.1k)
2.4 plate mails (3.3k)
boots and double windlace (1k)
Together around 10-11k worth of items in 1 item on one hero... :D 3x what it was originally purchased for.
Sounds like fun in some combo with slardar - slardar needs AS and having -32 armor and triple slow (poison touch 20%, crush 35% and crest 10%) looks like fun - enemy with 500 MS will be crawling 175MS). Btw those - armor would mean that terrorblade would have only the armor he bought through items.
this patch is the worst in history of dota
- NONE of the reworks (except lich, deny mechanic too strong) MAKE ANY SENSE.
- mapchange = bullshit, why change?
- slark leach = op af, RIP supports
- new items = useless
- no change to brood (yesyes balanced hero yesyes)
====
i doubt it ICEFROG made this patch at all. Valve thanks for ruining this game.
Lich was completely destroyed by the patch, you don't remove his mana sustaining ability and make all his normal spells cost 150 mana on average with a 500 mana ult.
Lycan wasn't ever played for damage he was played for his cheese pushing ability. Yes he will be picked over nightstalker still. Nightstalker on the other hand is insane strong right now and I consider it first pick material.
Lich was one of my favorite heroes they completely butchered him. Sacrifice was what made lich lich. Ice armor was the buff for your whole team before you siege.
god forbid you'll now have to buy clarities on lich like every other support
Maybe it’s just me but I was tired of all the nerf only patches, about time they spice things up, they will balance it out soon enough
First, u cry about the patch being so dull and u want a change. Then u cry about the new patch being imba and broken, when they nerf the op heroes to ground you cry about nerfing the hero, Dota players never stop crying, and those who don't use the forums enjoy playing 😂
I spammed pudge before, and I'm spamming pudge now, killing Slark in the enemy team and making his life a misery! I don't see a problem with the patch other than the map looking so dumb and that Naga hero 😐
The map looks so basic now. Anywhere is a good ward spot it feels. They should revert the old drow aura as well..
oh really, thanks for the information.
I don't know what icefrog is up to, making a previously braindead hero now require some critical thinking to play.
kotl lvl 25 talent still include a mana leak cd reduction
wtf hero picks dont matter on 3k? wow what a suprise....
Ssssh as a naga picker back in the day. I love this patch. Everything is more fun when everyone is broke
this is a big patch. not a small balance patch
like 7.14, 7.07, 7.00, 6.88, 6.86 and so on
the game state was very balanced last patch, and very stale
the meta was defined already by multitude of bi-weekly balance patches since 7.14 to major balances toward the ti. into a time with no changes since then, that let the meta stabilize and be defined
well, the game became boring
laning stage is king, maximizing reliable with 2-1-2, focusing on the range creeps is everything
axe dominating offlanes and creepskip
phoenix terrorizes with spirits
terrorblade literally unkillable if backed by aghs weaver
centaur makes everyone ungankable
puck is long time dead
same shadow fiend, lone druid, etc'
we know how the meta plays out. it's stale
so this patch shakes things up. introduce major mechanic changes that changes the meta completely. this is now the time when the game is not balanced at all (ahem meepo). but yet to be figured out
so we play and discover it. and with some hot pathes (ahem meepo) the too troublesome would be nerfed. and than slowly the nerf balancing patches would be rolled out.
if we just keep getting balance changes, nerf after nerf. the game would keep gettig stale and boring, same strats all the time, no exciting new toys, just heroes getting dethroned again and again
this would be really boring and dwindle the player base
the game should keep healthy balance of shaking up everything once in a while and than balancing it down
so the game wouldnt be in an unplayable state but would stay fresh and not stale
Lich is still good. His frost armor rework is way too strong. Put it on axe or spectre and let them all thy enemies.
Its a gigantic patch. Too many nonsense hero ability rework which is fine at it is. New items and map rework is enough. Editing more than 10 heroes at once is too much. The only rework that I see is fitting are Beastmaster, Earthspirit, and OD. Other are garbage reworks like (Meepo, Troll, and BH are the worst) that broken the game.
let the dust settle before you claim this is too big or something. 7.00 was much bigger than this
people said od got trashed, and he is already picked competitively constantly
people said drow got trashed, but are figuring out that her wave clear potential is huge
people said ogre is broken, yet his winrate plummeting. and he loses way more when you go for midas
od particularly looks like 6.86 all over again, where the damage moved from arcane orb to astral and int steal from astral to arcane. people said he is unplayable and trash, and than he dominated the entire meta alongside invoker
"but are figuring out that her wave clear potential is huge"
That one's bullshit.
Look on the bright side.
In exchange for giving up free mana to spam ice blast and multiple creeps denied which allows Lich to win most lanes and so he never has to return to base to regen: instead you get a damageless, longer cooldown, shorter duration shadow shaman shackles.
based on what, lgd.maybe picking him like once or twice? rofl
Hey, but Lich moves the enemy towards you! What play potentials! Like pudge!
Sure, it only "relocates" the enemy like 280 range max instead of 1300 of pudges, deals 0 damage instead of 360 pure, is channeling instead of instantly cast, has 30 second cooldown instead of 12 (4), but...you know what, never mind.
The thing people are failing to notice is that Lich can finally interrupt a TP from level 1 by himself, so the amount of potential lane partners he can go with has increased significantly. The reworked frost armor is also lit enough that he really couldn't have kept Sacrifice.
They buffed lion, pudge, bounty hunter, pudge and a shitload already OP heroes to hell.
But atleast they nerfed I/O by adding a 50% cooldown to the only nuke.
Makes sense valve. Nobel price is secured
there is no nobel "price" for making 2ks cry, sadly
2ks? I'm born in 1987 dude.
i rest my case
I dont think there are lawyers in gaming forms, either.
Are you ok there buddy
looking at the winrates today, all these balanced winrate satisfy me. A good Patch 7.20b is
The only problems I have with this patch are the hero reworks that were made to heroes that were fine where they were, especially the ones that made heroes worse. In my opinion hero reworks should only happen to heroes who are in dire need of a skill change to make them relevant or for skills that are inherently broken and hard to balance. They shouldn't happen to these heroes that are ok situational picks. That and the fact that several heroes that weren't in a good place got basically nothing. Like qop, what does minor knockback on her ult actually do for her. The hero has been underwhelming and out of meta for a long time and essentially didnt get anything.
I am very disappointed with clinkz as well bro while they made abbadon imbalance.. the neutral side offlane of the dire and the neutral side safelane of the radiant is very disappointing as well.. i don't know if i still want to play anymore bro :( ..i hope they will look forward to our concerns before they will patch the 7.21
How likely is that to happen? You get someone low enough at lvl 1 for them to try and tp away despite not having your nuke/slow leveled. New frost shield is cool, but gaze sucks, duration doesn't even go up by more than 1 second between lvl 1 and 4. A lot of supports have a longer disables than lich at lvl 1 that actually does damage as well.
High cooldown, high mana, no damage, single target, shit range, channeled taunt. Compare this to something like wraith king stun or ck stun and it's worse in every way. Why does the slow amount from gaze even increase if the target is just going to walk towards you for a set amount of time?
Goddamit, do I really have to explain my "from level 1" comment?
But are you going to level up gaze at lvl 1? Are you going to chase someone till they're on the verge of dying while doing nothing till they try to tp away?
If everyone is Broken, then no one is.
Gaze is just bad, it's shaman shackles with half the duration, no damage, and triple the cooldown.
and on a hero that previously had no hard disable and allows the hero to do something proactive to win teamfights in the mid and late game. Yeah the ability in a vacuum isnt a particularly amazing spell but it has a lot more effect in teamfights than sacrifice does. Giving a hero a disable rarely makes the hero worse.
No, but removing a very solid lane winning skill can make a hero worse.
His frost shield more than makes up for it though. Not to mention, it doesn't work against "the closest unit" as the tooltip says, but everyone in the area. AOE slow and damage.
Played a couple more games today and the more I play the more I realise that the reason this patch is shit is not because heros are necessarily more powerful but because everything is a chore to play against. Every single rework made their heros more annoying. It feels like every single game is against a team of nuisance picks.
Just came back from work.
No goddamit, the idea is that you no longer have to spend at least 2750 gold on a pos5 support for the ability to cancel a TP. Yes, the spell itself sucks balls, but you already have an early game nuke and a utility spell which scales much better than what it replaced.
Sure, now that he doesn't have a free deny + infinite mana, he won't win the lane as hard. But that was cheap as fuck, boring and made the hero pretty much useless mid to late game unless he had a fair number of items.
i want to play dota rn
Garbage patch.... totally imbalanced heroes... I've been playing Dota 1 since 2005.... this is ridiculous... Instead of taking the game to the next level they are degrading it... in 2005 there was a version where Riki had crit x4, invis and sentry with 180 chaos dmg (WK ult)... Guess they are aiming to something similar...
Hope they fix it soon, huge nerf is needed on Anti-Mage, Ogre, Brew and Lion... Oh yeah... Slark permanent agi steal !? WTF?!
More patches to prove how much of a state this game is
Xdis too short (minimum is 6 characters)
This post made me to login and say something to this topic. I stopped play this game 1 year ago and start watch only tournaments. After this patch came online i laughed for half hour and still cant believe what is going on. This game is ruined, srsly dunno how anyone still can enjoy it. There is still much more pleasures of life you can enjoy, Dota is none of them and this patch confirm my decision. Have a wonderful day all of you.
This new patch is completely unpredictable and chaotic. Just watch our 40k net worth lead and 4 remaining towers disappear in a single fight. I ward/deward (3-5k on vision per game), rotate, stack, communicate movements, even take the deaths to save the core so s/he can keep farming. I do everything i'm meant to do, but in this meta it doesn't matter.. all they do is pick one of these unbalanced agility heroes, stack the attack speed, go straight down mid and take the heart. Same thing every game. I haven't won a single solo ranked game since 7.20 was released. The worst part is that its taking nearly 15-20mins for me to find a solo ranked roles game as a support, then I spend 40mins in it only to lose. So I give up, no more ranked for me until things are fixed. I'll just spam Riki in unranked where nobody wards and be cancer. Much more enjoyable than losing every game as a good support XD
i wish they make armor changes not like this,agility heroes literally has 999 armor on min 10 with 3 wb
and on min 20-30 they are unkillable