He will hardly get any nerfes. It will at most be a little lower base STR and that Greater Bash at the guy you charged thing removed I guess.
I actually think he'll get a strength gain nerf along possibly with a lower base strength nerf like you said. The biggest reason why SB is a pain is cuz he's so tanky. He towerdives too easily.
The so called counters of spiritbreaker can hardly be called so because they apply to everyone. TPing in to countergank, yeah sure tell me what hero that doesn't counter. Stuns. Yet again, tell me what hero that doesn't counter? So he's a hero that can only be countered by the two strongest counters which apply to everyone anyway.
it is rly easy to counter sb with supporrt, shadow demon, omniknight, treant protector, dazzle, and disruptor.
Also carry or tank that can counter sb: bristleback, brewmasster, brood, ck, meepo, naga siren, tiny, undying, tide
You're implying SB charging in alone.
I mentioned how stuns counter him but this is arguable if you get charged when you're standing close to trees or have little vision to cast. No most of those carry/tank counters are not counters. I will not be explaining why.
His other skills got buffed in exchange.
He has the highest base strength in the game.
Insanely high base damage.
Tanky.
blablabla
I think his charge needs re-working. The fact that it goes through magic immunity, and has such a ridiculously short CD is just too much. If you charge from the right spot, you can charge in, hit your target, ult, kill, then charge out.
Maybe starting the CD when the charge hits or is canceled, as opposed to when you first use it would be a good minor nerf, but I don't know. I think a nerf is coming though.
They will reduce the volume of his moooooo, thus making him less creepy charging the young female heros.
he's ok idk why everybody cry about him, furion should be nerfed, he's like sb with global ulti.
i see 3 possible outcomes
1- icefrog nerfs him hard because lets be honest countering him requires 'some' game knowledge and semi competent teammates so i expect red circle on minimap when bara uses charge kinda io style or revert his spirit charge to point where enemy could see whos being charged by bara
2- -1armor - 2str
3- valve hire competent employee to rewrite rng for spirit breaker so 17% will be 17% not 30 nor 50
@aozdsifhqsdkjk, because Furion doesn't have 2 stuns that go through magic immunity. Because Furion needs items when a SB doesn't. Because SB tanks and intiates like a mofo. Because Furion fucks your early game because people always go jungle with him. Because Furion steals all your carries farm. Because with Furion you need a wee bit more brains than charging/ulti for instant ownage. Because Furion doesn't eat supports instantly with just a fucking boot. Because SB's high hp and dmg lets him lane easily.
Because.
Idk why everyone cries about FURION. Its essentially 4v5 for the first 15 mins. He's still crap with just a sole shadowblade and you only really feel his presence when he has 2 core items. In which case you or your team sucks for not capitalizing on the huge 30 minute early game where Furion is worthless while at the same time crippling team farm.
No his gangs are crap because he gets in like 2 rightclicks with a disable countered by a 90G TANGO.
@Freud, yeah a notification whenever he charges would be a pretty strong nerf, maybe too strong. Nerf his fucking level 1 base damage of 69(?). NERF HIS EARLY GAME HP.
His base damage is 60-70. Also yeah that's why Furion is a top tier pick while SB isn't. You are failing to see the good sides of Furion because your hatred against SB is just too big.
Furion is top tier because when picked in the correct lineup against the correct lineup, he shines. Because his ulti won't be used to cripple farm, he won't cripple the lanes by going jungle or if he does jungle, the heroes of the lineup won't be affected. We are talking about pubs here :|....
Now lets look at SB. What is SB's weakness? I don't know. He doesn't have a weakness. Because yes, he fucking seriously does not have a weakness. What? The stupid 'counters' to him only prevent him from snowballing from early game ganks. HE DOESN'T NEED TO SNOWBALL.
Becuz puhleeze name me a weakness of SB who scales well with or without items at any phase of the game. That shit is universally good against any hero because he's just that good of disabler/tanker/ganker.
Becuz I can give you Furion's cons.
You are failing to see why SB is considered OP because of your 'professionalness' along with all the others who think SB can be countered. You're only countering the noobs that use him. People who don't bother farming and just want to charge all day. Put yourself in the shoes of the SB and ask yourself if your dumb counters would really 'counter' him.
EDIT: and no, furion has a very normal and average base damage :)
Almost all yolo heroes can be killed. Spirit breaker is so fucking tanky that even if he charges 1 vs 3 its so fucking hard to kill him.
Its way easier to kill huskar than spirit breaker.
^
What Dorkly said.
Summing SB up:
Pros:
Highly Mobile. (Benefits team with aura)
Tanky.
BKB doesn't counter him.
High base damage.
Has a bash.
Can carry.
Cons:
Nothing.
Counterganks are not a con. (He's ganging someone, whole team teleport to counter! GG 5V1 IS THE TRUE COUNTER /IGNORES ENEMY TEAMMATES POSSIBILITY OF HELPING)
Stuns are not a con. (You picked Alch, we muz get stun its the counter. WOOHOO VENGE COUNTERS ALCH!!!!)
So fuck you, I'm SB.
I dont understand people who say that counterganks is a way of stoping him. Counter ganks is a way to stop every fucking ganking hero in the map, the thing is that its not always posible tp to countergank, you know why ? because you are not playing 5 vs spirit breaker .... he has a team too.
You only can see him if he is retard and charge from a easy angle to see.
Stuns counters everything in this game. Simple like that.
And the most important thing by far : "3- valve hire competent employee to rewrite rng for spirit breaker so 17% will be 17% not 30 nor 50"
17 % MY ASS. right now its 25 or 30. I can attack 2 times per second with void and i will bash less than with spirit breaker.
Furion is a really good hero so snowman dont hate on him :P. But i dont think furion is op, he needs to farm a good time in the jungle , if he tries to help without farm he will just auto atack a bunch of times and thats it.
Anyway for some reason people doesnt pick him so frecuently now a days so .....
I don't hate him >_>, I'm telling people he's not OP. The benefits he provides comes with cons. Some people are misinterpreting what I'm saying.
SB's bash is arguably the best bash in the game. Longest duration and damage, only somewhat con being the pushback sometime working against you.
Of course it is the best bash in the game because it got buffed. But how do you guys are doing the maths about him solo killing everyone in the enemy team? If he has around 400 MS each bash hits for 160 damage. You got 2 bashes from charge and ulti and generally one more from auto-attacks. This is 480 magic damage from bashes and 100-200-300 damage from the ulti. And if you hit him 4 times then you deal about 200 damage. This in total doesn't even add up to 1000 damage. How well do you guys expect this for SB to go for him to get those solo kills?
Also I'm sorry for your pub games but in the games I play there is a lot of communication between the players.
communication where i play
Вышло обновление для основного клиента. Размер
Мы приготовили для Вас небольшой аналитический отчет
MID
MID MID MID (invoker/pudge/sf pick)
gues i shouldnt throw 100games back in the day D;
Its nothing to do with communication... I already said to place yourself in the shoes of SB. If that guy wasn't a noob shit, you wouldn't be able to counter him so easily especially if he coordinated with his teammates. Unless all of your games, your team has great coordination and communication whereas the opposition just dances in your palm everytime.
When did we say he solo kills everybody? I said he's universally good because he's a strong tanker/ganker/intiator/disabler. 3 of his skills affect magic immunity. Throw in some aspd items to raise bash chance or a BKB so he can't be disabled and he's a powerhouse in fights.
Do you say Nyx is a weak ganker because he is unable to burst down an enemy hero from full hp to death on his own? SB can move throughout the map fast and has 2 active disables and 1 passive one. His aura allows allies to chase/run away as well.
Lets not talk about how he can snowball easily because thanks to his disables, almost all his ganks have high success rates.
I'm so sorry you are unable to comprehend where I'm coming from. Amongst all the pros we've brought up, the best you can rebutt is he can't solo kill... really? What part of gank don't you understand? He's a beast in teamfights as well as charges can possibly stun a large amount of heroes. His ulti goes through BKB as well as his passive bash.
He isn't weak at any phase of the game. Not even the laning phase. He has high base dmg and tankiness with a charge as a disable/escape skill. At most you can say he isn't STRONG in the laning phase but not weak. So we've got a hero with good early game and strong mid game late game.
What the fucks your problem, really? Is it so hard to admit a hero is OP? If you sincerely think he isn't, then please state me a list of cons on a SB who which I already said, strong throughout the whole game and doesn't need items yet he scales excellently with them. (Remember the easy snowball!)
His strength need to be nerfed. At level 2 he can towerdive you in 1 vs 2
I dont think theres any real counter to SB, brushing aside the usual counter to everyome that is stuns and silences. Whenever I see an SB on the other team, I'd go for silencer just to help with that global silence...it isnt much help though.
You guys are talking about outplaying your opponent. I am talking about the hero itself.. Usually all heroes have some sort of big down side, and the thing is spirit doesnt. A lot of hp lvl 1, really good armor, very high base damage, all of that in lane. At mid game he can easily stun lock anyone, 1 stun from his charge, 1 stun from his ulti, that is 2 stuns more the natural bash. No other hero has 2 stuns more bash ( slardar 1 aoe stun, void only his ult, troll only bash ). His bash is the best bash on the game ( troll warlord may have a better bash but chances are way lower) and the fact that his bash its not prng can make you have 3 bash in a row ( the Prng system on void or slardar make this almost imposible on those heroes).
He is pretty tanky, and can gank everywhere on the map without losing too much time. His aura makes his team so fast.
About he losing strenght on late game is bullshit, because you are not going to play spirit breaker like a carry, he will just hold the mid game till your carry get some items.
Sam you forgot his insane auto atack damage between the bash, and probably some help from his team mates. If he times his ulti he will stun lock his target for more than 3.5 seconds. ( 1,6 from charge, 1,6 from ulti + another 1,6 from autoatack = 4.8 seconds )
This may not be true if he is EXTREMELY unlucky and get no bash at all ( usually anyone can get even more than 2 bashes )
So lets say furion; he is pretty squishy.
Centaur ; lacks mobility and needs something to close the distance to his target.
QoP; Squishy.
Balanar; Has no stun, even if his Q has a pretty good slow you need sometime to chase the target, spirit breaker has still more base strenght ( even if balanar has more strenght gain he will be only more tanky than spirit breaker at lvl 15 ) and has the downside that he can only gank at night.
Drow: Squishy.
Sam if in the games you play your team has a lot of communication then it doesnt matter if the heroes is op or not because your team is going to outplay them.
People like to say that no hero in dota will be ever OP, or that if a hero is op he will be picked on pro games, but dont forget that the principles of pro games does NOT apply on all pick.
About the question about where do you lane him, you can lane him like a offlaner ( charge is pretty good to escape ) like a support ( he doesnt need a lot of items to be good ) and sometimes even in mid ( a lot of armor, high base damage, etc )
http://es.twitch.tv/blitzdota/c/2844483 ( this happens WAY too often )
Luna with a Spirit Breaker nearby is just op. Luna with Drums and Yasha will have over 500 movespeed with a Bara nearby. Thats fucking hard
If you have a better team it doesnt matter if your enemy pick op heroes because you are going to outplay them, but that its not a counter.
Its like saying that Melee carries can beat dark seer on a lane because you won against a dark seer. If you did was because you are a better player than him or he was a bad player. Not because dark seer is a bad hero.
I understand that in all online games there is always a lot of retards that complain 24 h about something being op. But people started to hate those guys so much that now a day everyone has so much fear to be compared to them that they will never say that X hero or item is OP. I am not spaming a forum or writing on caps lock or mad or anything, i am just giving my opinion about the hero.
Just make his charge not apply a greater bash, simple like that.
If someone say that X hero is OP you go and counter argument them, this is how life works. The typical "OMG L2P NAB I AM BETTER HUEHUEHEHEUEH " its a childish thing that 90 % of the people on this forum use.
Sorry for my terrible english .... i am trying to improve on that :)
Spirit Breaker is so OP yeah? Ohhhh, so that's why we saw him so often in TI3 and the recent StarLadder tournament. All those pro games for shit tonnes of money where he raped shit up and was so OP he got picked and banned over and over and over again...
No you can't lane him as an offlaner. He won't get any farm there. Just because you can escape you are not a good offlane hero. And you can't lane him mid either because any ranged hero will outlane him so hard because he has no way to push lane or harass an enemy. He is not a good carry either because he has no farming ability and needs to gank more than farm to be a good hero. He can kind of be a support but if you make him a support he won't get any farm therefore hardly benefit from his best spell which is bash. Also he has no late game power at all. Any proper carry will outcarry him. And come on guys how can you say he has no counters. Are you serious about this? Even wards could be called a counter to him. Also no that shit doesn't happen too often, at least not for me.
Well said, Dorkly. Don't worry either, your English is fine.
There isn't enough substantial cons to SB to warrant him not needing a nerf. The only reason he doesn't see competitive play is because of the meta of 3-1-1. SB is strongest in 2-1-2 which is the general format of pubs. Even then, he still gets picked by some competitive teams! Why? Because his skillset is strong enough they decide its worth it despite him not suiting a tri.
Suck it up people, SB is too strong.
@.:ne:. Monkeh
So any hero not used competitively needs to be buffed then. Becaaaause dude if competitive teams don't use them it muz be rlly weak! The playstyles of AP and CM as well as competitive games and pub games are very different. Don't be a child.
@Sam, charges from base or smoke charges are easy to do. Your simple 'counters' can be countered easily as well. Besides, like I said, you're ignoring the pros we brought up and trying to nitpick at anything we say. He can't solo offlane, he can't solo mid. Good for that then.
I Just want to say that i lost interest Since Barathrum got Nerfed in dota 1...
Miss the old Dominates.. :(
"SB is strongest in 2-1-2 which is the general format of pubs" again your low level pubs are on duty. I haven't seen a 2-1-2 game in a year or something. And no, I fucking can accept a hero is OP Here I will say it. Batrider is OP. Lifestealer is OP. Then you will disagree. And I will disagree with you about SB being OP. So? Nothing will happen in the end. You have your own idea. I have my own.
Would be nice if at least he wouldn't be ablo to stop the charge once he started. Let's say our team communicates and has wards. OMG NEED HELP BARA CHARGE TOP HELP HELP. Okey, someone with a nice stun tp's in, or maybe two of them couse I'm sooo squisy early game and will die before they could kill him. Nice. But enemy team also has ward vision, and tells Bara, hey stop charge, they TPed in. Bara stops, waits... My teammates realise they aren't doing anything useful right now and go back to their lane. So Bara charges me and I die anyway. Nice...
We might as well just wait and see when the patch comes okay? Also I also said that he should be nerfed. But you guys treat him like he is the most OP hero Dota ever had.
If you have your own idea and I have my own, then how about you FUCKOFF instead of coming to my thread to tell me what you think. Thank you for basically telling yourself to fuckoff.
@Vaeldiithia, that would be crazy strong nerf lol. It would deter anyone from doing far away charges. Maybe a long cd penalty if he cancels charge? Like if he suceeds the charge, the CD is as normal but if he cancels it, theres like a time penalty of 2 mins or something.
He's OP if someone with brains plays him. Yesterday we managed to lose with SB and Furion in our team against Naix and Alche. I blocked Naix's whole jungle with obs and sentries, solo killed him at least 5 times and with my wards, Bara also. Naix was still lvl5 when we were lvl9 or so (our solo even higherleveled), but my dear team decided that push is for noobs, we could instead just rape them, so they somehow farmed up and won. -.-' So there are other op heroes, and if you can somehow survive mid game and have better carries, you can win against him, BUT they still cried in all-chat during the game and didn't really had fun... I'm not saying Bara wins games, but ruins other people's game.
Yeah and now just because I disagree with you you flame me. If you really hate me and don't care about what I say maybe you just don't read them?
You really wanna bring flaming up?
All your comments have been 'i-know-it-all' disregarding a majority of the stuff I've sad. I agreed with your first comment, didn't I? To sum up all your comments, we're stinky players compared to you who don't know anything.
You did several things;
Put words in my mouth by saying SB can solo kill. Then dissed me about that using your math.
Basically saying we suck and play in low leveled games.
Blatantly ignoring a majority of the stuff we've said and nitpicked at a small fraction of it.
At the end, say we both have our own ideas so this discussion is pointless.
So you came into the discussion of your own accord, decide what we say is wrong, ignore our counter arguments, act like we stink and you know and play better, then at the end of day, say "we both got our own ideas, this is meaningless".
So yeah, pretty much I'd like to say fuck you? You deserved to be flamed for that final comment.
@Vaeldiithia, nerfing him is necessary to balance, although that would mean he'd almost never see competitive play till the meta changes.
There are various nerfs possible for him, that charge penalty being one. Its possible to leave his skills untouched though by making his early game weaker. Lesser damage and HP with lousier stat gains. Or they could rework him, for like the 4th time.
Sam you are getting the wrong idea. Bat and lifestealer (in my opinion ) are way more broken heroes overall than spirit breaker, and nobody said otherwise. Lifestealer is one of those heroes that doesnt have a down side or a weakness, and in my opinion every dota hero needs a weakness. No one is trying to say that he is the most broken hero in this game ..... we are all just trying to say that he IS broken. Like among other heroes. The thing is everyone knows that heroes like bat or lifestealer are actually broken, for that same reason there is no need to remenber them that those heroes are broken .... because everyone knows that already. But on spirit breaker case some people things he is not op. You know why? because he is not played on pro games. Simple as that.
"And you can't lane him mid either because any ranged hero will outlane him so hard because he has no way to push lane or harass an enemy."
I didnt say that he is a good mid. I say that he is acceptable. Night stalker has way low health and his base damage is even worst and he can still be acceptable on mid ( Night only has one way of harass and is his Q)
And about him like a offlaner or a support: He doesnt need items. You dont need insane atack speed on him because is sooo easy to stun lock someone thanks to his charge and his ulti . Those more than 3 seconds of stun will easily give you another extra bash.
"Then you will disagree. And I will disagree with you about SB being OP. So? Nothing will happen in the end. You have your own idea. I have my own."
So ? and what ? cant we just argument and justify our ideas because in the end no one is going to changes they minds? That happens on everything on this world. Its this discussion hurting anyone ?
"If you have your own idea and I have my own, then how about you FUCKOFF instead of coming to my thread to tell me what you think. Thank you for basically telling yourself to fuckoff."
You are wrong. He can say whatever the fuck he wants. He didnt flame anyone.
"At the end, say we both have our own ideas so this discussion is pointless."
That is true. I really dont like people who thinsk discussions never bring anything positive. People still argue about religion, and even if no one changes they minds, its still a necessary thing to do.
Sam i just really like to argue and to discuss with argument so you dont need to get defensive or anything. People are to sensitive now a days.
Like I said, that final comment he gave made me want to flame him.
Because basically, he was never going to agree or even process whatever the fuck we said.
"And no, I fucking can accept a hero is OP Here I will say it."
In other words, this wasn't a discussion. So basically he came into the discussion and dissed what he wanted to diss and finished up with "Hey, I said whatever the fuck I wanted to say but don't bother responding cuz I never gave a shit about what you said anyway."
@snowman ^: Me saying "so that's why we saw him so often in TI3 and the recent StarLadder tournament. All those pro games for shit tonnes of money where he raped shit up and was so OP he got picked and banned over and over and over again...",
is really very far from the words you thrust into my throat,
"So any hero not used competitively needs to be buffed"
I never said he should be buffed and I don't think I'm acting like a child. You are stating he's OP, that means overpowered. If he was overpowered then he would be picked or banned all the time in the pro scene, where people play for money and don't fuck around, whatever it takes to win etc.
Please explain to both us, and yourself, why Bara isn't picked in the pro scene all the time if he's so OP. I mean it, explain this oddity for us all, please.
Maybe then you'll see that he isn't OP because if he was, (you know, like Naix, Bat, Io and the other top tier heroes), then he would get banned or picked all the time.
Fact is he doesn't, so fact is, he isn't OP.
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We all know it will come, plenty of people have been going about him being overpowered so its only a moment of time before Valve/IF is forced to nerf him or rework him.
So how do you think they will do it? Longer charge cd, earlier notification of being charged, lower strength gain.
And please, no "EZ WIN SB IF YOU'RE PRO". You could win against an Kunkka with 120 base damage if you gank him, would that make him not OP? The old lycan could be countered by warding jungle. Wolves got nerfed. The old Invoker could be countered by simple gangs with dust. He got nerfed. Hell, even Drow got a nerf because she was owning lower-level pubs too much.
Summing SB up:
Pros:
Highly Mobile. (Benefits team with aura)
Tanky.
BKB doesn't counter him.
High base damage.
Has a bash.
Can carry.
SNOWBALLS EASILY.
DOESN'T NEED TO SNOWBALL.
Cons:
Nothing.
Counterganks are not a con. (He's ganging someone, whole team teleport to counter! GG 5V1 IS THE TRUE COUNTER /IGNORES ENEMY TEAMMATES POSSIBILITY OF HELPING)
Stuns are not a con. (You picked Alch, we muz get stun its the counter. WOOHOO VENGE COUNTERS ALCH!!!!)
So fuck you, I'm SB.