Sahil (Hindi: साहिल, Urdu: ساحل pronounced sā'·hĭl) is a masculine first name, originating in India. It derives from the Indian word[clarification needed] for 'sea shore' that was borrowed from Arabic.[1]
The central region of Africa of Sahel is known as Sahil in Arabic ساحل literally meaning "shore, coast",
http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/the-rocky-balboa-of-video-games-just-won-a-million-dollars/ I was super psyched! Fear is one of the most aggressive players and has an awesome ‘never surrender’ attitude,” says Mumbai-based DotA fan Harsh Sharma, who streamed the final live on YouTube from 11:30pm locally on Saturday to 7am the next morning. Sharma was looking forward to some local flavour too, as Evil Geniuses’ Saahil “UNiVeRsE” Arora is an American of Indian origin. “Seeing an Indian and a Pakistani winning an international tournament as an American team? Mind blown.”
Since tinker is so overpowered, let's do a comparison:
Tinker with bottle, blink, bots, SR, lvl 16 or 17, and dagon 3 : (~ 10K net worth)
Let's give our AM about the same networth and level, so treads, manta, and BF. We won't worry about the other 4 heroes on each team just yet because this is purely in the interest of a 1v1. Tinker TP's in, lasers AM, and AM blinks away until he can hit again. If AM reengages and gets lasered again, he can just manta and start burning assloads of mana off of Tinker. At this point, even with rearm, blinking becomes incredibly difficult, so Tinker's only option is to TP out. At this point, since he is about level 17, Tinker will have around 1300 health, and about 1200 mana. After casting max level laser twice, rearm twice, and about two casts of march, even with three uses of soul ring, he will have about 100 or 200 mana left, especially after being mana burned by AM. Considering that AM will also lots of damage with his first and his illusions, he will have done enough damage to simply ult tinker and drop him to the deck. Now we'll add in teammates in the early game. Most well made drafts will have a stun. We'll say a level 4 venge ganks a tinker who is going for a lazer/rocket build. For the sake of argument we'll say everyone is full health and mana, and both midlaners are level 7. Just to prove my point, I'll use PA as the enemy midlaner, who you say "gets shit on" by Tinker. Each hero should have decently even farm and items, but PA will have less because of the natural advantages of tinker versus melee midlaners. Tinker has ~5 armour and 780 health level 7, and PA will have ~6, assuming no armour items for either team. Venge level 2 stun will do 130 damage, or 1/6 of Tinker's health, which will be followed up by wave of terror, reducing Tinker's armour to 2 and dealing 30 damage. Tinker now has 620 health. Let's assume creep equilibrium is in the center of the river, and that tinker was playing somewhat dominantly and far up in the lane. By the time he reaches his highground, he will have a movespeed of 172.5 due to dagger, which will also deal about 60 damage, bringing tinker to 560 health. With the addition of blink strike, which will grant 4 attacks of about 81 damage each, tinker will drop to 230 health. Because of the stun, which lasts plenty long for those 4 attacks to go through, tinker will not be able to use laser immediately. The damage done to tinker will total 550, 420 of which is accounted for by PA. In general, coup de grace will amplify PA's damage by about 20%, bringing it up to about 650 damage to tinker, leaving him with about 130 health, which either another stun or another few attacks or abilites from either hero will finish. Your argument to this will probably be, "oh look normal skill EU noob rofl so bad" except this is math. You can't disprove it, and I didn't account for any usage of soul ring or low health from harassment.
or tinker will just kill pa before she gets to level 6, also about am since this is 1v1 why are we giving both of them only 10k gold. Also, tinker will always kill am before manta, and after he gets his sheep stick . i dont know what kind of shit tinkers you people are playing against seriously, am blinked away and tinker just stood there with his blink doing nothing wp tinker. Am is a terrible hero, even if a guy standing next to the target of am's ult uses a blademail am himself will die, he is completely countered by bkb, any hero with a bit less farm can easily kill him(except pugna, skywrath and a couple other mages), alchemist farms faster and carries harder. Nice hero.
Everyone just leave isolated lamentation alone. He clearly doesn't understand that INT carries CAN ALSO BE HARD CARRIES!! With that being said, why should a hard carry not be able to rape another hard carry (even in the late game) if he is more farmed and is being played by a better player? Do you cry when a farmed void rapes your TB at the 50 min mark? Or when slark rapes PA? These are all one hard carry destroying another, so what makes invoker destroying slark any different? just because he can come online a little earlier? It has much more to do with the skill of the player and your teamwork than the strength of the hero. If you have a very fast APM and can land their combos quick and accurately why shouldn't you be rewarded by being able to kill the other teams carry? In fact being able to go hard with invoker/tinker is harder than it is with any agi carry you could name where they require the ability to use one or two skills properly and then just right click, while these two require you to be able to use a multitude of abilities correctly and as such players who play them well should be rewarded by being able to carry their teams.
You'll also notice that I am not a tinker/invoker spammer because I'm terrible with them and respect the skill it takes to rape with them. Also, if they were soooo OP then they would be contested significantly more in pro DOTA matches, while invoker is still contested pretty often (although not as much recently) Tinker is NEVER picked by these guys because he really isn't that OP if everyone on the other team knows wtf they're doing.
Firstly, you dont even know what you're talking about, tb easily rapes void in a fight, even if void is hitting the real one, go and try it in lobby. I'm not against them raping agi carries all game, but the late game is for the agi carries why they are still able to kill them is what bothers me. Whats the point of defending your base and making space for your carry if at the end an invoker or a tinker will be able to kill them. Troll was never picked by pros before 6.83 was he any different than before? No. Are you guys gonna provide any proofs of them not being OP besides pros dont pick them so they're not OP.
This is from the dota 2 wiki. "Invoker can be a carry, semi-carry, ganker, pusher, initiator or even support". Please tell me where it says hard carry.
"His naturally fast basic attacks combined with his powerful abilities make him extremely dangerous in the late game, allowing him to devastate enemies with ease if he is allowed to farm as a hard carry."AM
"Mortred the Phantom Assassin is a melee agility Hero fitting the role of hard carry." PA
Who wins late game? Invoker, and Tinker.
no but terrorblade and dusa do have 3 stars according to the game which makes them hard carries while neither the game nor the wiki state tinker or invoker as being hard/3 star carries.
A hero can alternate roles in various patches, and game strategies.
gyro was a sup, same with lesh, naga was played as a sup, venon was a full tf sup and now we see him as a mid.
edit: just because teacher gaben give them stars doesnt mean they are better than the rest
I kind of agree with op here. If an "early game" carry can outcarry a "lategame" carry in the late game (assuming both have good farm), something needs to be changed. Because if this happen, whats the point of "late game" carry anyway.
Dude did you even read the thread? We are discussing about an early game carry that can fuck a late game carry in late game.
Of course i know what an early game carry is for. But thats not the point.
The point is, that late game carry that you said is to make sure you have someone late game who fucks everyone's butts IS FUCKED by an early game carry. Get it?
If an early game carry ducks equally farmed late game carry in late game it means he is countering the late game carry or is apparently a good late game carry or he just gets a good initiation on late game carry or the late game carry player is a bit braindead
People complaining about invoked still, honestly how butthurt can you be? Ever heard of positioning yourself accordingly low level scrubs. As for tinker he was nerfed into oblivion got just 1 buff and now your crying? AUFKM ever heard of running away or infused raindrops?
Also the current mid heros most of them are underwhelming and that's why 6.84 was so good. Now you just have nerfed crap mid heros and Strong mid heros making the strong ones feel like their OP.
As for should a int carry be able to wreck a ago carry?
Yes, it certainly requires shit tone more skill than for the agi carry so I see no wrong with it. Also Dota has other stuff than just right clicking. Pls stop crying.
Tinker isn't an early game carry why do you all idiots assume that he is an early game carry? He comes out best during the mid-late game. He requires a lot of farm to get going and steals his carries farm most of the time with the marches.
The comin misconception of only right click carries being carries is so Crap. Plus if your good enough you can always bkb before he hexes and jump him.
This thread literally translates to hey valve can I get a 6.83 again but with even shittier semi carries so that I can pick troll and sniper and actually win games.
Gosh, of course i know what an infused raindrow or run away means.
Think about it this way, there are two person playing dota both have the same level of skill. One person picks tinker and the other picks slark. And at the late game, a slark is pushing a lane then a tinker comes and perma hex that slark and killed him. How is that fair? That slark doesnt even get a chance to react (assuming both team cant react in time a.k.a 1v1 situation)
And please, you dont have to insult someone to have a good statement. I know im only a normal skill player, and this is just my opinion
Sahil (Hindi: साहिल, Urdu: ساحل pronounced sā'·hĭl) is a masculine first name, originating in India. It derives from the Indian word[clarification needed] for 'sea shore' that was borrowed from Arabic.[1]
The central region of Africa of Sahel is known as Sahil in Arabic ساحل literally meaning "shore, coast",
what does this shit means //??
i know he has an indian name. and i also know he looks like an indian but that dosent means he is an indian.
HE HAS AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP AND ALSO HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA THAT MAKES HIM PURE AMERICAN.
if only you people would watch the replay of that game that you posted, a guy can get a normal skill game(even 6k players do). We lost cause our axe and juggernaut were passive. You people are so dumb lol. I said that late game tinker shouldnt be able to kill a six slotted carry by himself, its stupid because he's been killing that guy all game what was the point of him farming if tinker is just gonna shit all over his hard work by hexing and nuking him. No you cant use bkb before tinker hexes you unless the tinker you were playing against was a noob who couldnt time his shit and bkb is only 5s late game.
OK, a guy has an indian name, looks like an indian, but lives in America so he must be of American descent and is 100% pure American. Good logic.
Guess you won't be voting for Donald Trump then huh? And @ z33 Thank you from the bottom of my heart and thank God SOMEONE knows what's up. I was about to lose total faith in the myth of human intelligence.
Oh yes please. Keep 'em comin'
@isolated Lamentation i think u r wrong . universe a.k.a sahil arora is a "american".
Sahil (Hindi: साहिल, Urdu: ساحل pronounced sā'·hĭl) is a masculine first name, originating in India. It derives from the Indian word[clarification needed] for 'sea shore' that was borrowed from Arabic.[1]
The central region of Africa of Sahel is known as Sahil in Arabic ساحل literally meaning "shore, coast",
kill this thread, it fucking sucks
Saying that it means, since your name is Hindu, means you're hindu.
Muhammad Ali, Sylvester Stallone, and my friend Wan want's to have a word with you.
i just became a swede guys LUL
http://indianexpress.com/article/technology/tech-news-technology/the-rocky-balboa-of-video-games-just-won-a-million-dollars/
I was super psyched! Fear is one of the most aggressive players and has an awesome ‘never surrender’ attitude,” says Mumbai-based DotA fan Harsh Sharma, who streamed the final live on YouTube from 11:30pm locally on Saturday to 7am the next morning. Sharma was looking forward to some local flavour too, as Evil Geniuses’ Saahil “UNiVeRsE” Arora is an American of Indian origin. “Seeing an Indian and a Pakistani winning an international tournament as an American team? Mind blown.”
Can't you guys just let this thread get buried and stop responding to this idiot?
or make the mods lock this
Since tinker is so overpowered, let's do a comparison:
Tinker with bottle, blink, bots, SR, lvl 16 or 17, and dagon 3 : (~ 10K net worth)
Let's give our AM about the same networth and level, so treads, manta, and BF. We won't worry about the other 4 heroes on each team just yet because this is purely in the interest of a 1v1. Tinker TP's in, lasers AM, and AM blinks away until he can hit again. If AM reengages and gets lasered again, he can just manta and start burning assloads of mana off of Tinker. At this point, even with rearm, blinking becomes incredibly difficult, so Tinker's only option is to TP out. At this point, since he is about level 17, Tinker will have around 1300 health, and about 1200 mana. After casting max level laser twice, rearm twice, and about two casts of march, even with three uses of soul ring, he will have about 100 or 200 mana left, especially after being mana burned by AM. Considering that AM will also lots of damage with his first and his illusions, he will have done enough damage to simply ult tinker and drop him to the deck. Now we'll add in teammates in the early game. Most well made drafts will have a stun. We'll say a level 4 venge ganks a tinker who is going for a lazer/rocket build. For the sake of argument we'll say everyone is full health and mana, and both midlaners are level 7. Just to prove my point, I'll use PA as the enemy midlaner, who you say "gets shit on" by Tinker. Each hero should have decently even farm and items, but PA will have less because of the natural advantages of tinker versus melee midlaners. Tinker has ~5 armour and 780 health level 7, and PA will have ~6, assuming no armour items for either team. Venge level 2 stun will do 130 damage, or 1/6 of Tinker's health, which will be followed up by wave of terror, reducing Tinker's armour to 2 and dealing 30 damage. Tinker now has 620 health. Let's assume creep equilibrium is in the center of the river, and that tinker was playing somewhat dominantly and far up in the lane. By the time he reaches his highground, he will have a movespeed of 172.5 due to dagger, which will also deal about 60 damage, bringing tinker to 560 health. With the addition of blink strike, which will grant 4 attacks of about 81 damage each, tinker will drop to 230 health. Because of the stun, which lasts plenty long for those 4 attacks to go through, tinker will not be able to use laser immediately. The damage done to tinker will total 550, 420 of which is accounted for by PA. In general, coup de grace will amplify PA's damage by about 20%, bringing it up to about 650 damage to tinker, leaving him with about 130 health, which either another stun or another few attacks or abilites from either hero will finish. Your argument to this will probably be, "oh look normal skill EU noob rofl so bad" except this is math. You can't disprove it, and I didn't account for any usage of soul ring or low health from harassment.
or tinker will just kill pa before she gets to level 6, also about am since this is 1v1 why are we giving both of them only 10k gold. Also, tinker will always kill am before manta, and after he gets his sheep stick . i dont know what kind of shit tinkers you people are playing against seriously, am blinked away and tinker just stood there with his blink doing nothing wp tinker. Am is a terrible hero, even if a guy standing next to the target of am's ult uses a blademail am himself will die, he is completely countered by bkb, any hero with a bit less farm can easily kill him(except pugna, skywrath and a couple other mages), alchemist farms faster and carries harder. Nice hero.
This topic:
as for pa tinker shits on her throughout the game.
Everyone just leave isolated lamentation alone. He clearly doesn't understand that INT carries CAN ALSO BE HARD CARRIES!! With that being said, why should a hard carry not be able to rape another hard carry (even in the late game) if he is more farmed and is being played by a better player? Do you cry when a farmed void rapes your TB at the 50 min mark? Or when slark rapes PA? These are all one hard carry destroying another, so what makes invoker destroying slark any different? just because he can come online a little earlier? It has much more to do with the skill of the player and your teamwork than the strength of the hero. If you have a very fast APM and can land their combos quick and accurately why shouldn't you be rewarded by being able to kill the other teams carry? In fact being able to go hard with invoker/tinker is harder than it is with any agi carry you could name where they require the ability to use one or two skills properly and then just right click, while these two require you to be able to use a multitude of abilities correctly and as such players who play them well should be rewarded by being able to carry their teams.
You'll also notice that I am not a tinker/invoker spammer because I'm terrible with them and respect the skill it takes to rape with them. Also, if they were soooo OP then they would be contested significantly more in pro DOTA matches, while invoker is still contested pretty often (although not as much recently) Tinker is NEVER picked by these guys because he really isn't that OP if everyone on the other team knows wtf they're doing.
Firstly, you dont even know what you're talking about, tb easily rapes void in a fight, even if void is hitting the real one, go and try it in lobby. I'm not against them raping agi carries all game, but the late game is for the agi carries why they are still able to kill them is what bothers me. Whats the point of defending your base and making space for your carry if at the end an invoker or a tinker will be able to kill them. Troll was never picked by pros before 6.83 was he any different than before? No. Are you guys gonna provide any proofs of them not being OP besides pros dont pick them so they're not OP.
every carry is op, nerf dota 2 volvo
they must be in the normal skill bracket i guess.
This is from the dota 2 wiki. "Invoker can be a carry, semi-carry, ganker, pusher, initiator or even support". Please tell me where it says hard carry.
"His naturally fast basic attacks combined with his powerful abilities make him extremely dangerous in the late game, allowing him to devastate enemies with ease if he is allowed to farm as a hard carry."AM
"Mortred the Phantom Assassin is a melee agility Hero fitting the role of hard carry." PA
Who wins late game? Invoker, and Tinker.
You won't find the words "Hard carry" in the Medusa or Terrorblade pages either.
Also, that name logic. I guess 90% of the people in the 3 Americas are actually european. Lel
so basically ur being nitpicky over flavour text
no but terrorblade and dusa do have 3 stars according to the game which makes them hard carries while neither the game nor the wiki state tinker or invoker as being hard/3 star carries.
A hero can alternate roles in various patches, and game strategies.
gyro was a sup, same with lesh, naga was played as a sup, venon was a full tf sup and now we see him as a mid.
edit: just because teacher gaben give them stars doesnt mean they are better than the rest
(console) :
tinker so op
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2382696159
can i just add
Fucking caught.
Maybe hes mad cause he spams tb.
I kind of agree with op here. If an "early game" carry can outcarry a "lategame" carry in the late game (assuming both have good farm), something needs to be changed. Because if this happen, whats the point of "late game" carry anyway.
The point of the early game carry is to end the game early of course.
The late game carry is to make sure you have someone late game who fucks everyone's butts.
(console) : LUL
anyway many heroes are op if dota was 1v1 game but apparently its a 5v5 team game which is a nerf to tinker xD
Dude did you even read the thread? We are discussing about an early game carry that can fuck a late game carry in late game.
Of course i know what an early game carry is for. But thats not the point.
The point is, that late game carry that you said is to make sure you have someone late game who fucks everyone's butts IS FUCKED by an early game carry. Get it?
If an early game carry ducks equally farmed late game carry in late game it means he is countering the late game carry or is apparently a good late game carry or he just gets a good initiation on late game carry or the late game carry player is a bit braindead
People complaining about invoked still, honestly how butthurt can you be? Ever heard of positioning yourself accordingly low level scrubs. As for tinker he was nerfed into oblivion got just 1 buff and now your crying? AUFKM ever heard of running away or infused raindrops?
Also the current mid heros most of them are underwhelming and that's why 6.84 was so good. Now you just have nerfed crap mid heros and Strong mid heros making the strong ones feel like their OP.
As for should a int carry be able to wreck a ago carry?
Yes, it certainly requires shit tone more skill than for the agi carry so I see no wrong with it. Also Dota has other stuff than just right clicking. Pls stop crying.
Tinker isn't an early game carry why do you all idiots assume that he is an early game carry? He comes out best during the mid-late game. He requires a lot of farm to get going and steals his carries farm most of the time with the marches.
The comin misconception of only right click carries being carries is so Crap. Plus if your good enough you can always bkb before he hexes and jump him.
My god...
This thread literally translates to hey valve can I get a 6.83 again but with even shittier semi carries so that I can pick troll and sniper and actually win games.
Kids crying how early game carries stomp them early game after they feed them early game kills as late game carries.
Just don't die as late game carry, and get as many kills/farm as you can for the late game. Simple as that.
(console) : scrubs LUL
Gosh, of course i know what an infused raindrow or run away means.
Think about it this way, there are two person playing dota both have the same level of skill. One person picks tinker and the other picks slark. And at the late game, a slark is pushing a lane then a tinker comes and perma hex that slark and killed him. How is that fair? That slark doesnt even get a chance to react (assuming both team cant react in time a.k.a 1v1 situation)
And please, you dont have to insult someone to have a good statement. I know im only a normal skill player, and this is just my opinion
But dota is a 5v5 game and it would be a massive missplay by slark
because tinker has infinite mana
Sahil (Hindi: साहिल, Urdu: ساحل pronounced sā'·hĭl) is a masculine first name, originating in India. It derives from the Indian word[clarification needed] for 'sea shore' that was borrowed from Arabic.[1]
The central region of Africa of Sahel is known as Sahil in Arabic ساحل literally meaning "shore, coast",
what does this shit means //??
i know he has an indian name. and i also know he looks like an indian but that dosent means he is an indian.
HE HAS AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP AND ALSO HE WAS BORN IN AMERICA THAT MAKES HIM PURE AMERICAN.
@Tr@iNeR!! i vouch for that
if only you people would watch the replay of that game that you posted, a guy can get a normal skill game(even 6k players do). We lost cause our axe and juggernaut were passive. You people are so dumb lol. I said that late game tinker shouldnt be able to kill a six slotted carry by himself, its stupid because he's been killing that guy all game what was the point of him farming if tinker is just gonna shit all over his hard work by hexing and nuking him. No you cant use bkb before tinker hexes you unless the tinker you were playing against was a noob who couldnt time his shit and bkb is only 5s late game.
OK, a guy has an indian name, looks like an indian, but lives in America so he must be of American descent and is 100% pure American. Good logic.
thats enough
Guess you won't be voting for Donald Trump then huh? And @ z33 Thank you from the bottom of my heart and thank God SOMEONE knows what's up. I was about to lose total faith in the myth of human intelligence.