General Discussion

General DiscussionLion seriously need a buff

Lion seriously need a buff in General Discussion
Let Me Commit Suicide

    i am a shitstain player i know.

    but of all supports hero that i played

    This hero is fucking underwhelming even in early game

    He cannot harras really well with that attack animation , projectile speed , and damage
    MANACOST VFHVAHSLVHASDHVI
    Impale is underwhelming as fuck , both damage and stun duration. its fast but i rather have nyx stun that hard to land but do its job
    HOW IS MANA DRAIN A SKILL, + CHANNELING , when u suck someone mana for 5 sec at TF , its the same u can kill anyway
    180 sec cooldown lvl 1 ult.... really? its not a blackhole , its just a nuke for fuck sake

    u cannot even harras with this guy. ur hit + stun do little damage + he slow as fuck.

    idk i just want a hero with stun + hex can be played.

    simple hero with 47 winrate for fuck sake

    Aimstrong

      3k opinion, leave thread boys

      Let Me Commit Suicide

        implying average dota players is 5k :/

        M u r d e r

          mana drain is fucking strong man you put 2-3 point in it before leveling any other spell so you can easily sustain all your spell spamming. and his ult is amazing in lategame, where you have like 20 second cooldown on the strongest instant cast nuke in the game.

          i wouldn't mind some sort of buff to lion, of course, and maybe he needs it, but not as you say "seriously"

          and lvl 25 lion instantly breaks ck ulti........ glimmer cape is super good on him so you can drain mid fight, also early mana drain levels totally dumpster WK and other mana dependant heroes in the early midgame.

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          Grimm

            Lion is the strongest solo target disabler in the game.
            If you pick it only for that reason he'll be really strong and it imply you have to play it this way.
            He's garbage fighting multiple ennemies at once because of how squichy he is.
            5k players having many smurfs account and 5k hours of dota thinking they're the average dota player are such human trashes.
            Get down with your ego, ffs.

            Let Me Commit Suicide

              have you tried to harras as lion? compare it to other ranged support like lich , disruptor.

              that attack animation so frickin slow dude . at least make his right click actually matter early game. or maybe movement speed

              SPRMKD!

                Why you post when you dont know the hero enough? First of all he is god for harass. Mana drain is op af.. You cant use mana drain and expect to leave the enemy on 0 mana. First go spike then go mana drain and there is your harass. The enemy is gone now for the shrine. If you play against BB max your mana drain and thats it but if you need double stun for AM or QoP max your Hex and combine it with spike. Hex maximum stun is 4 and the spike stun is 3. And dont ever go for 75 cast range bcs thats shit talent. Take 60dmg and now you can farm camps/waves like crazy.

                M u r d e r

                  i agree, lions harassment is pretty shit, no question there. unless you playing pos 4 (or random) and manage to get your hands on a fast boots+windace, then you can harass easily.

                  Dire Wolf

                    He's somewhat situational if you pick him every game he's not that good cus he isn't a good team fighter really. But he's a great lane support and ganker. If you buff him he'll ruin pro play

                    Let Me Commit Suicide

                      Spike + mana drain , and then offlaner with full health free hitting while u channeling.

                      Tbh my main complaint is. He is a seriously no threat at all in early game. When he is supposed to as a support

                      pinoy fuckboy

                        Lion should be played as pos 2

                        Let Me Commit Suicide

                          One true sollution kappa

                          M u r d e r

                            i remember playing lion pos 3 in 2k and destroying some booster invoker (maybe just 4k player not real booster) by just using my high level ultimate with veil on him xd

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                            M I L N O R

                              he is not bad but requires a bit of communication to get value. great in party , don't play him in solo q

                              Rex

                                If lion is so bad how can a 2k shitstain like myself have a positive winrate with him ? :thinking:

                                1-IceTea 🌟

                                  He is good against mana dependent hero,position is super important for him I surprise no one mention,maybe you all just too noob(sorry)

                                  Btw build Dagon on him if enemies have squishy carry
                                  :smile:

                                  Mlada i Luda

                                    thats because lion is not a properly 5 position support. he is a 4 position, seting up kills and counter ganking is the best thing that he does in game, he is not made for zoning.

                                    Jacked

                                      He is the classic OP support. All his skills are good except he is Super hard to play because of all the reasons u mentioned.

                                      NA+Cl

                                        He ganks well, and mana drain can rlly fuck some offlaners.
                                        Gl doing shit as bristle or darkseer with no mana.

                                        arin

                                          mana drain is fucking strong man you put 2-3 point in it before leveling any other spell

                                          what the fuck

                                          M u r d e r

                                            i mean leveling past lvl 1

                                            well either that or you buy lots of clarities

                                            coz you otherwise can't sustain to cast your stun and hex combo more than once without needing to shrine or go back to base

                                            and, before you call me retarded, take a look at this guide okay? https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3311758901?guide=7f6b07

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                                            dog pos 4 (VERY DOG)

                                              just look at my last game

                                              3ks are just to fricking dumb to olay heros like lion or ogre

                                              Lion is OP early game, you can totally rape an enemy mid and destroy enemies early game. just look at all that lockdown and nuke

                                              but as it is, people are too damn dumb to make rotations or roam, also as soon as the game goes late, they start chainfeeding with lion because they are always out of position and die from 2 rightclicks of the enemies pos 1.
                                              same goes for heros like shadowshaman and ogre. when i have heros like this in my team its basically in instaloss.

                                              dont abuse early power spike, dont stay back late game = no impact all game, chainfeeding on top

                                              those are usually also the players that cry about how shit their team is when they play support and how impossible it is to climb as support.

                                              meanwhile i climbed from 2.8 to 3k by playing roaming pos 8 solo support or offlane solo support every game

                                              Peppey

                                                200 mmr gain so good 🌚

                                                Peppey

                                                  He's definitely not a trash tier hero

                                                  Luc

                                                    Dont pick lion.. Thread closed...

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                                                    Tsoo

                                                      I picked him lately and then the enemy offlaner picked Broothmother.

                                                      I Don't need to tell more.

                                                      Ayase  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

                                                        Just a little buff to his talent and he is all good.

                                                        M u r d e r

                                                          ^^ sack the lane and gank mid?

                                                          Jacked

                                                            He is a trash support I agree
                                                            Don't pick unless you're Chuan

                                                            bibotot1995

                                                              Well, he is pretty crap. I hope they increase his armour a bit, otherwise, he will get thoroughly thrashed in any even lane. Negative 1 base armour, really? Honestly, he is a combination of Shadow Shaman and Lina. Unfortunately, his burst damage is less likely going to get a solo kill compared to the other two.

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                                                              forever and always
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                                                                HBNN

                                                                  ^ Plz, my eyes cannot last long seeing this pic.

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                                                                  M u r d e r

                                                                    ultra-late lion can solo kill ultra-late antimage

                                                                    NA+Cl

                                                                      dude w0t?
                                                                      r u high?

                                                                      Positive Mental Attitude

                                                                        Lion is fine, if u think lion is underpowered u're playing him wrong, most likely bad positioning.

                                                                        M u r d e r

                                                                          after doing it in a real game (https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3332360121 , i want to make a video of me killing the antimage in this game, but i'm too lazy), i did it in beta mode, where i even put str treads and replaced butterfly/battlefury with heart/skadi on the am, and still solo 100-0 him

                                                                          silver edge, veil, aghanim, refresher, shivas/dagon5/eblade. he does not stand a chance, you burst like 5k+ damage. i did it without dagon/eblade coz you can put them on any hero, btw.

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                                                                          RPQ-sama

                                                                            In what kind of a game do you have aghs refresher dagon shivas silver edge on lion?

                                                                            M u r d e r

                                                                              1st of all you dont NEED dagon, i think it can replace refresher if the AM deosn't go heart+skadi. and you use shivas for the mana pool, so mystic staff would suffice.

                                                                              with gpm talent and midas (even without midas) you can easily get 6 slotted in ultra-lategame on lion if you get kills, the hero farms fast with the lvl 10 damage talent, not to mention aghanims (you can clear ancient stacks/splitpush with ultimate). i had games where i baught 2 of my carries moonshards after getting 6 slotted and that wasn't even 70 minutes game, but it's just pub.

                                                                              needless to say, you need to press buttons like invoker when you're doing the anti-mage solokill as lion.

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                                                                              Simple minded dota player

                                                                                Stop rushing blink first on lion and he's not a bad hero.

                                                                                NA+Cl

                                                                                  dude if ur farming that much on lion it means ur carries r way underfarmed which is fucking horrible

                                                                                  M u r d e r

                                                                                    there is always farm that's not being taken on the map, especially since lion with aghanim can splitpush REALLY safely (you just press r, it clears the creepwave, and you blink-tp away if you need to, or just wait the next wave and R it again)

                                                                                    but it might be bad in high mmr, idk, it's been a long time since i played lion ultra-lategame in very high skill ranked game.

                                                                                    anyway, the real key to getting high net worth on support in a long game is just not dieing, and not wasting your entire net worth on sentry wards. yu dont even need to farm that much.

                                                                                    in the game i linked i had 70 lasthits in 50 minutes only, but i didn't die most fights so i got AOE gold, and i would have had the needed gold for refresher by 60 minutes if i didnt make mega creeps, which would allow me to EASILY solo kill the AM (i didn't end up needing the refresher, random windranger power shot was enough for me to kill him)

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