mmr inflation just makes it so that every year mmr seems more artificial, nowadays 6k isn't even something special and this just kinda ruins the experience at least to me
at the beginning 5.5k was already considerably high, 6ks were the best players, now everybodys 6k and pros are high 7k, if this goes on in 1 year pros are all gonna be 8.5-9k
mmr values that were supposed to be very high (such as 6k today) are just continuously getting banalized because of the constant inflation
Nah, I want to see someone get that sweet 10k before it gets changed. Also they probably have to rebalance skill bracket distributions.
when you say 'get that sweet 10k' you can interpret it as some superhuman player with extraordinary skill achieving and mmr way above the rest which would be interesting to see
sadly thats not gonna happen, whats gonna happen if this goes on is in 3 years all pros are gonna be 9.5k+ and we'll constantly see 8.5-9k average games like we see high 6k-low 7k average games on EU now, nothing will have changed, just the actual values
I think the first thing that needs to change is normal/high/very high skill system, right now values 3200 and 3700 as breaking points are just ridiculous, there's no reason to consider 4k players "very high skill" and 3.5k "high skill" because that's just silly, wouldn't it be more logical if the percentages switched so that limits end up at something like 5k+ being high skill and 6K+ being very high skill?
Money also isnt the same as it used to be. I could get drunk for 20eur back in the days, now i can hardly buy few bears with it...
And yeah - mmr is getting inflated, but you cant really stop it as long as rating is measured in numbers.
@kitrak: what do you think of the normal/high/very high distribution? I mean, it's no secret that people are like, completely trash up to at least 5k, why would 3.7k already be VHS?
people did get better but that's a completely independent phenomenon to the mmr growth over time
anyway i don't think it's a super bad problem that mmr gets inflated, i just think it's gonna be kinda ridiculous in 2-3 years when players are 9k or some shit
Ti3 sucked lmao.
So dota 1 pro players back then were playing at the current level of 3-4k or what.
Inflation is bound to happen in every game with a skill rating. It happened in chess, happens absolutetly everywhere. Its simply how the system works. Look up inflation in chess rankings, as it was one of the first games to implement the rating system
"where the fuck do you find bears at that price 4head"
Holy shit i should seriously go and sleep some more hahaha
The system is perfect as it is. Even though MMR inflates, there will be a moment when it will stagnate. After all ratings show how good you fare against others. If two players having 6k, one systematically beats the other, then it deserves a higher rating (lets say 7K for practical purposes) At 7k it will be the same story. This system, by not having skill groups, helps having more balanced games (theoretically). Also, if you even seen games at 3.9-4k or 4.9-5k border you'll understand how stupid a system with skill groups would be, since player barely touching the next skill level bash the previous one like they never played the game before.
I don't think there is a (significant) MMR inflation. It's just that at the higher spectrum of the MMR ladder you'll see the MMR rising. And even if you assume the MMR has a normal distribution, keep in mind the enormous sample size of accounts on the ranked ladder, it's perfectly normal to see these outliers, it's even expected. MMR is also relative, it has nothing to do with skill, so people should stop acting like at X MMR players are good and at Y MMR they are god awful. And btw, making these assumptions like "MMR is inflating" and basing them on that 0.01 percentile is just ludicrous, I shouldn't be explaining that.
Also, I do not believe Dotabuff assigns which games are in the n/h/vh skill bracket.They parse the games and extract these skill brackets from the Valve API.
Kids do you even know how MMR works? If anything MMR gets deflated more than inflated.
In short you win, someone has to lose = MMR equal. And meanwhile when you abandon you lose MMR = deflation. And dont bring smurfs same logic applies if someone is buffing MMR on some account it means other people MMR decreases again base MMR is equal.
Dota simply, had grown so much(in both player count and quality) that previous "god" dendi now is just average pro player. And his MMR isint inflating he is just siting like he always was 7K. So suck it up there is better players than you and they keep getting better. Look at something like miracle a fucking beast he really deserve 8K.
imho higher mmrs are a combination of more matches played, more high rated players, more overall skill, and higher quality of top mmr games (i remember when blitz, one of the first 7k mmr people literally played with 4ks on his team, now we have 6k avg games)
and it's actually ok because mmr should be a scale from 1 to 10000
Ranked system in 4k bracket is insanely retarded anyways, 95% of the players play there like they're subhuman ~3k players.
i dislike the dota 2 mmr system. like every other online game has a better ranking system. even hearthstone's is better. hell, even LoL's matchmaking is better than dota's.
Honestly this is such a misguided concept, that an 8k is that much better than a 6.5K.
I think you're as good as you're gonna get when you hit about 6.5. That's basically just aesthetic numbers beyond that. People will argue that this is wrong and in their theories a 8K will beat a 7k easily but that's just not the case. That difference in skill is just so marginal.
Once you hit around mid 6k it just a cause of being good at winning games, not that your skill has increased or that you've even gotten better. Badman was about 6K till spectre spam and now is mid 8.5 but that doesn't mean he's gotten any better but has simply learned to win games with a strong meta hero.
@MingLee rewatch some of the TI3, it is true, the skill level was much lower than it is now. Not 2k low but it is pretty low relative to decent games now.
@havoc
well there we have let's say consistent 6.5k players with wide hero pool, or one hero spammers who got like 700mmr by playing only spectre, or only morphling. these 2nd ones definetely have room for improvement.
if youre 8k+ it just means you were a 6k player who was already good enough to consistently beat 6k players.
pro players frequently have high mmr, and a lot of pro players who are 6 or 7k could get to whatever mmr they wanted hypothetically, but it requires 40 net wins to gain a thousand mmr or something, and to be perfectly honest solo queueing for long enough to get a 40 net wins increase is fucking boring.
not to mention you'll probably be spamming a hero if youre playing cores.
No they don't cause that spam just wins them games, they're already as good as they're gonna get.
What you're talking about is hero skill, not game skill. Their game skill is already as honed as it's gonna get by about 6k then beyond that it's just hero proficiency and meta.
Game sense and mechanically I think most people are as good as it gets by about very high 5k to mid 6k then everything beyond is just aesthetic skill.
welp, then we might say that the higher the aesthetic skill, the less attention a player has to pay to it, and the more he can focus on actually playing mind games, guessing/predicting the moves of the other players, etc. yes, he might be just as good in it as before, but since he can spend more effort on that, it turns out to be more efficient, too.
guessing/predicting the moves of the other players
once a player hits about 6.5 I would more than expect him to have this heightened level of attention, again this comes more with experience rather than MMR....the differences from a player in 6K to a player in 7K or even 8K now is down to the player itself and how much effort they put into playing to win.
Lets say this is a tentative skill line...
1K-------------2K-------------------3k--------------------4k-------------------------------5k----------------------------------------6k----7K--8k
Sure there is some "flash" that would seperate the players out of 7-8K but that's usually down to a hero or playstyle that sets them apart not necessarily skill per say. Makes sense? Sorry for my Engaland.
yup, i get it and generally agree with what u say, i see it more or less same way as u do
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