General DiscussionWhat to do as Spectre vs Morphling

lose

Don't throw late game

i wud recommend skipping radiance and purging the spectre clone hes almost always going to make

does diffu kill it?

Diff Doesn't kill any summoned units anymore I think

Teamfight as much as you can and kill morph's team? If not, then just cry.

Build deathball spectre and kill all morphling team, when morphs bkb wears off focus the shit out of him with manta + diffusal
Dont build HoT, dont build mkb just kill his teammates, RO diffusal, manta, radiance.
And dont throw, morph can kill you easily, let your team initiate and dont stick with just 1 target during haunt, with RO you win the fight be deceptive

don't buy radiance, kill his entire team. Make sure your team has a good share of stuns, silences and hexes. Hexes and silences makes Morph much harder to be efficient in during midgame due to inabiility to morph. And morph cant 1v5 with 5sec bkb against a lot of lockdown.

Just kill his team mates without dying LMao... xd

Beg your team to pick Elder Titan if draft is not over. Right click him with ease while his otherwise 30+ lategame Agi-Armor is nullified

yeah manta diffu is so much better than radiance and not totally gamelosing, thanks for the input

How to rek 6.5k mmr NA trash Morph as Spec? That's how.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2113922780

Do you firstpick spectre?

Nah, i picked it last, but wouldnt have changed a lot in this game even if i firstpick him.

what do u think counters spectre the most? I thought in theory slark cos silver edge + pounce leash but if spectre plays safe she shouldnt ever get focused on by slark like that

LC is pretty damn good counter if a guy knows how to play her. Then really agressive trilanes or some gay dual lanes like Necro + 1 is hard to play against too. Spectre's biggest weekness is laning stage cause if you harash her on the lane she cant jungle at all even if you build really early game items like Urn+Drums.

I'm playing spectre quite a lot lately, following Badman build and playstyle and if you really wanna learn the hero just watch 10 games of this guy!

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/91735466

yeah i watched him to get the gist of the spectre gameplay and i fare kinda ok currently (4.5 - 4.7: http://www.dotabuff.com/players/167473809 )
im just not sure what to do if enemy picks spectre. The best way would be dual lanes into 5 man pushing i guess. But this needs a good start or the spectre team will get enough farm to compete.
I tried LC against spectre (jungle, i think its not so bad to jungle lc), whats your plan? I usually aim for silver edge after dagger to get the dispersion removed but I struggle after ~35 min

Also do u know the interaction with vanguard and PMS? I went both in one game, can they block 2 times? Since PMS always blocks, does vanguard block get a chance to proc?
I never build vg except for one game where I solo laned against a LD

ya diffusal kills the replica instantly
solo safe lane carry necro with aggro tri counters spectre in every single aspect IMO
vang completely overides pms i think

doesnt dispersion really mitigate the 50% hp threshold danger of necro? i think u need too much coordination to get the scythe kill on spectre

nec solo wins most offlaners on his own, then u get to run an aggro tri which punishes spectre hard
lots of heals and sustains really makes spectre weak (at least against radi spec, but still effective i think)
+ if they dont have strong depush + u have strong push u can just go mek/greeves and push with early lead which spectre hates also
scythe/aura eats bulky cores esp since she doesnt carry bkb often
just my opinion

Nah, vanguard is shit. Never buy it on spectre.

You either go for PMS, Urn, Drum,Manta,Diff, Heart, Butterfly/Abysall or for Radiance build but you always buy at least Urn and dont naked rush it.

Also i wouldnt go jungle LC vs Spectre, go Safelane or Mid, get fast blink and just gank her all the time. Go blademail after blink and then BKB/AC/Deso/etc. Whatever you think will give you better chance of winning the game. LC offlane can work in some games too. Overall just pressure her and never leave her on the lane to freefarm. Since she cant go in jungle you can pretty much win the game like that and then just push.

makes sense @necro, forgot about his sick laning + sustain, scythe is just a bonus

what would u have done in this game? http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2112976466
That's when I went 1on1 against LD since spirit breaker insisted on jungling that hero. I tried to sustain with pms + tangos but it wasn't enough so I opted for vanguard which kinda worked out since I could sustain through his roots and stay on lane. I considered urn but the sustain wasn't enough for this static lane I feel. Would be cool if u could watch the laning stage and tell me what you would have done
In general I would never build vanguard but in general I have at least one support on my lane

Well you won the game, that means you played well and vanguard payed off :) Regen and dmg block is really nice, i honestly have no clue how i would lane vs druid as 1 vs 1 spec. Probably pms and lots of tangoes till Urn. Then i would everytime go for the kill when i got ult and got urn charges, etc.

diffusal (and all purges) no longer deal bonus damage to illusions or summons.

vanguard now has 100% chance to block 32/16 damage, so it does override PMS which only blocks 20/10.

dispersion does change the guaranteed kill threshold of lv 3 aghs reaper's scythe which is normally at 47% life to 25% magic resistance and no other reductions.

with max dispersion you effectively have 41.5% resistance (0.75 x 0.78) so you need to be at ~41% health instead of ~47% to die to lv 3 aghs reapers scythe, which isn't much of a difference.

i think 8 tangoes stout pms was ok, only thing i wud have done differently was wait abit then dagger into ss to get both roh and qb
if it was old bear i would have try to have gotten boots and/or oov and try to all in with sb level 2 but i guess with new roar its not possible
skillbuild and laning was fine i think, i usually think 414 is completely awful but since u had solo exp + went vanguard and didnt get ganks it was ok

when should you max dispersion first or not go 4-4-1-2 by 11 (if ever)?

oh apologies i didnt notice the diffusal change

I always lv either dagger or desolate first then lv the other after (with a casual 1 into dispersion at lv 2 or 3)

Thanks a lot for the answers, lots of good stuff here
Okay so pms and vanguard dont stack at all, i didn't even notice that vanguard is 100% now :D
Also interesting to see that dispersion stacks multiplicatively (?) instead of additive so necro is better than I thought against spectre and probably one of the better picks.
I honestly only went pms first cos I thought it's enough but after my first death I thought differently lol
My thought in the 4 1 4 build was LD will never get hit by dispersion so I might aswell go full dispersion and as u said I had solo exp I would get enough to get desolate up reasonably soon.

I would never max dispersion first to be honest. Spectre is really versatile with her skillbuild so I would always do it by feel. Lots of harras in enemy dual lane? Get maybe 1 more point in dispersion, you will sustain easier. It limits your offensive potential in some way but you also get more diving potential cos of dmg reduction and (in)direct dmg of dispersion though tower damaging the enemy.

ayy im currently getting fucked by offlane lc, my support venge leaves me alone first 10 minutes to help offlane invoker IM DYING

one question, why all of you said "don't buy radiance" ? It's like useless against morph or ? In my mind radiance is here for farming because spectre have no ability for flash farming so what is bad ? Morph is too strong vs spectre with only radiance or something ?

Can you explain me please

morph makes replicate of radiance spectre which hurts u so much

game just staRting, got a morph against me (spectre)

http://www.twitch.tv/benao_noruega

Turn off Radiance when Moprh is near you. E Z