Stacking is important, so it makes your support rotation less obvious, since they don't have to go at a specific point.
But even without that, you can dominate a creep to farm the lane while you wood, which is important for heroes that are pretty slow to farm (like sven ^^)
In addition, you can also use the creep to scout, or to boost you, or even to disable your opponent, which is so great (satyre banisher is quite op right now, as well as the troll summonor).
Yeah, you're right, maybe I am just not too fond of using the dominator to begin with (and I really love MoM for the +100 attack speed early), now that you've noted some other (actually, kinda typical) uses for a dominator, I'm beginning to like it. I'm actually gonna try dominator stacking in pubs, though I typically get treads mom blink and go kill something and then go back to farming, but I guess after 350+ games of Sven I can try doing something a bit harder/more open in terms of possibilities.
I also realized that even if your support that's babysittying mid is stacking the ancients (I only get this when I 5 stack with friends), you can still stack hard camps for yourself with the dominator. Sven's really good against hard camps and ancients anyway, so that's probably one more thing to look into, and I also forgot there are 3 hard camps now, that's one more camp you should prioritize stacking if you're doing it, so dominator can't be bad except for the loss of +100 attack speed in the early game that would otherwise be provided by MoM.
Because SnY early means you can go chase your opp and still have some decent damage. With blink, you aren't having enough damage. Don't get me wrong, blink dagger is nice, but you need some damage 1st.
About HotD, I'm not sure. But I'm not a fan of MoM because increased damage taken and HotD Satanic follow up. SnY gives enough aspd until AC / shards
Then again, I'm just a low skilled player, wait for other answer
I don't know why this dogshit hero wins so much, maybe I should play him, nah fuck you sven.
^He farms well, builds to both be tanky and hit really hard
His winrate falls off the further you go up the MMR ladder, so I guess once people learn to kite and position against you, you're no longer that much of a threat, but generally, Sven can abuse a lot of things that low skilled players do badly.
Actually, fuck that, he has highest winrate (54%) in 5K+ making him 8th most winning hero in the 5k+ bracket. Holy shit, I never actually checked this.
What the fuck guys, I thought he was supposed to be on the 'bad' side of melee strength carries. I guess that 5k+ guys pick accordingly, and Sven is ridiculously strong with a good setup, so maybe there's that. Actually, fuck me, I obviously honestly have no fucking idea why that hero wins so much.
I guess this is what happens when a hero gets buffed every patch, and not nerfed for a while (the only major nerf he got was MoM nerf from 30->17% movement speed, and that's only if you actually built that item).
A fed Sven can literally jump and two shot omni before the fight even starts, and if the team relies on his protection, they're screwed, so I don't actually see your point. The only solution to this is omni having an aghs and your team not having any diffusals/ability purges, which is only likely at low levels and in unranked, since in ranked all pick any sane human being will pick a hero with a reliable purge/typical diffusal builder, or just end up buying a fucking diffusal. According to statistics, there are 35 places before omni, in terms of who counters whom. I mean, sven's literally "more countered" by techies and death prophet, than by Omni, so that should tell you something as well.
If u get mom u somewhat destroy his ability to sustain dmg/front line anw its rly bad now u needed the ms alot. So for sustain it's either hotd or armlet. Anw in 5k no one maxes stun (max stun sven is awful)
I never max stun lately, I always skill depending on the lane/general game situation. If there's little physical damage I will just get one point in warcry, one in stun and go cleave/stats. If I'm up against two melee laners I will actually max cleave for harass, especially if they can't waveclear so they end up having trouble with creeps at their tower, so I push the wave out while harassing the laners, take the cs, and then go to jungle for some additional farm. Usually I try to have supports secure my lane, then have them roam, and then give them the lane once I go to clear the stacked jungle, this way the team gets a lot of exp and gold, and supports can start working on their blink daggers and stuff.
I don't quite get that comment.
But I don't really build Sven to frontline early, I build him to have the team initiate, and then blink and burst people down while they can't do much. By the time I am frontlining the team I will end up with the default Sven build anyway, with PT Blink BKB Ac Daedalus MoM.
Anyone tried that strat where u get 1 point in stun then don't level anything till ult followed by all points in cleave so u can have it maxed to farm stacks without pushing the lane early.
^I report all people who spam the shit out of me for skill/item builds when they do not understand the reasoning behind them.
"Anyone tried that strat where u get 1 point in stun then don't level anything till ult followed by all points in cleave so u can have it maxed to farm stacks without pushing the lane early."
Done. But I go stun warcry ult into 4 levels of cleave if I want to go hyper farm mode, and not push the lane before. You need 2 levels of cleave to farm most camps, but if you switch targets while farming it's actually a lot faster with 4 levels of cleave. Otherwise, with two levels of cleave it's the most efficient to attack the large creep, but stacks go down faster with 4 levels of it.
You blink in with MoM, stun and hit somebody, maybe get a kill before the stun wears off. Maybe then you get targetted and blown up in 2 nukes and right clicks cause you're fucking paper with MoM and Blink, 4k worth of items that give 0 defensive properties. Meanwhile smart Sven has a HotD and a Sange and can still kill people while having shit tons of armor and hp. 2k more gold after than and he can run around killing more people after the first one.
I would like to prioritise Drums & BKB. As they give you attack speed, aura active, armour and damage, hit points, defensive active against nukes + stuns respectively. I may have to look at enemy team's nuking abilities before I would consider MoM e.g. I would never go with it if they have Zeus or Lina.
After Drums & BKB, I would go with Crit or Assault and then Moon Shard if time allows.
I do go with Blink or Shadow blade depending on situations but I would never rush it before Drums + BKB.
Another reason I go with Drums is I only take 2 points in stun and Max war cry as it synergizes with Drums active. This is just another reason for not rushing blink dagger for me.
I would like to try SnY on Sven but for that I would have to be position 1. I prefer it as position 3 :)
Basically the point is that you're not just all about the DPS but you can also survive a lot of burst thanks to the warcry which people underestimate and with stuff like s&y or/and Skadi you will be very hard to kill and Deadalus+Moonshard is enough for the DPS and since you need a blink and boots you can reserve the other 2 or 3 slots for not pure DPS items such as S&Y/Skadi/BKB/Satanic.
The reason behind the Dominator is simply the fact that you're the fastest Ancient stack cleaner in the game and should then fully utilize that fact.
If you're really interested in the full reasoning behind that build you can read these threads:
http://playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1459613
http://playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1463151
@Cheona
Yeah, remember that. Some day when you lose against aggro trilane, because your Sven maxing cleave first, you'll understand my pain...
Max cleave is a greedy build and need a draft around it. Depending on your team composition, max cleave may be even more viable than max stun against aggro trilane. You forgo the lane, but you can catch-up in gold with a few neutral stacks.
It really depends on in-game situation.
One point in stun is enough if you're freefarming, max cleave and warcry or get 2 points in warcry and go stats instead.
Mask is quite overrated as has been discussed. You just get blown up too quickly, it's a snowball item really.
S&y used to be extremely underrated by everyone, now we see it fairly common on agi heroes. Troll, sniper, gyro almost always get it, but str heroes still almost never get it. It's an amazing item on dk, Sven, ck and wk. makes you really tanky, plus the slow and move speed are awesome and it's a good attack speed item before getting ac.
I used to only build MoM on him but with this burst damage metas I started to go dominator and it feels good if you constantly use it, not only for stacikng but for buffing yourself or pushing if you can dominate a siege creep, its like unkillable believe me xD
Q one E pts optional hold pts for cleave dominate a creep make stacks find frost ogre/wolf go rosh take frost click on urself take all towers if they come defend you frost ur team and fight keep pushing with aegis. Congratulations you are on their high ground. Press R hit tower. Press q and e keep hitting tower. Die with aegis frost again hit racks. Min 20 racks . You now have money for a blink/armlet u should already have these items maybe not critical bkb. Smoke up go rosh and repeat.
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So, what's the deal with this? In competitive play you'd have less need for a dominator since other people can stack for you, the armor really doesn't do much if you're maxing out warcry and MoM is better DPS increase, especially early while you still have low agility. I would understand going for dominator into satanic later for prolonged fights and whatnot, and it works with SnY as in letting you actually hit more so you can actually use it without people kiting you that much.
As for SnY, it really helps with positioning during fights, tankiness and early attack speed etc, but I've mostly seen people either delay blink with it or completely circumvent it, what's up with that? Shouldn't your ideal scenario be to actually build up damage and have CC provided by the team and jump in whenever you are around/ready to, and just cleave everyone? Obviously SnY is much better in prolonged fights where you run at people, take damage and can't blink anyway, but why'd you immediately assume that's what you're going for?