It is true, so far no one ganks the enemy junglers at all in my games. It looks llike jungling has fallen enough out of the meta that people do not understand how to counter it anymore. I remember when I started dota 2 three years ago that, when I jungled in fucking low level nonranked I got repeatedly raped in the jungle.
But usually people at least have the intuition to be more agressive when they see less heros agaisnt them in the lanes. That of course stops working if you do not apply pressure early. If you get the enemy team time to get the level advantage having less people in lane brings you are starting to experience the first problems.
Yeah, it might seem like a solo dragon knight is no issue for you, but if he survives the lane and he's level 7 when the two of you are lvl 4, you'll get fucked over. People don't deny or zone enough in this bracket, either.
Actually it is kind of like with men or women who say that the opposite gender is only interested in sex. That usually is because the person making that remark has nothing else to offer. It is the same with most supports in 3k or lower. They think that support is boring because you have no impact, idle around in lane and do nothing late game apart from buying courier and wards. That usually is because they do not know what else they could/should do.
This is no insult or anything, if you play those heroes dominantly, no wonder it's going to be shit for you. You mostly play ranged heroes anyway, who would not build quelling blade (except for against NP or some shit) to begin with, so Iron Talon's kinda out of question, especially since you aren't going to jungle early at all. Of all your recently played heroes, this item is only okay on Spectre and Jugg, spectre for early jungling where you don't hit hard and have no radi, and jugg to take out the big creep faster before you get bfury.
i pick lifestealer to jungle at level 1. then i build talon. i findout it's good item to helps hero jungling faster. around 10min my hero quite fast leveling compare to others. its ok item for jungling early game. just don't bother my lose because my team was gone wrong when roshan.
You can get a 12 minute radiance easily on druid with talon + tango start. Though when I jungle my team feeds all lanes so hard that I can't do shit so only hero I can successfully jungle with is ursa, cause I kill rosh early and start snowballing at 5-6 minutes.
^I edited out the 'asshole' portion of my post as well.
And yeah, this item's really good mostly for the first ten minutes, and to burst down hard camps up to until like 20th minute, makes no sense to keep it in your inventory for too long if you're actually just going around and killing people, but with heroes who can technically go to jungle at lvl 1, like lifestealer, lycan, legion, lone druid, ursa, bloodseeker etc, it can realy help you get your levels and gold and not get behind, especially if the game is passive enough that you can actually get a midas, since talon + midas let you skyrocket your farm even on heroes that are bad farmers, obviously if you have the time to spend in the jungle, otherwise if the game has too much stuff going on, lvl1 jungling might be a bad option, especially if you'd be able to get some exp/gold from those fights, much rapidly so than in the jungle.
But to be completely honest, what I think this item is the best for is just get your lvl6/blink dagger as soon as possible and go gank gank gank, because I don't think passive afk farming is good this patch, you want to capitalize on the early blink/lvl6 a lot more, and I say this as a LC player mostly, obviously the same thing applies to bloodseekers, ursas etc, who can actually get levels and farm much faster this way if they start in the jungle.
It sort of is, in regards to how much more experience you can get by bursting the large creep down now, but it falls of way too hard, because at some point you start hitting for more than 40% of creep's max HP, and you don't get theflat gold/exp bonus you'd get from Midas, so it's balanced that way.
Before, getting a 6min blink and 5min lvl6 on legion was pretty much impossible, now you can easily do it with good spawns.
I like it, since getting a Midas made you jungle longer because you delayed your item progression for farm. It gives you stronger late game but you might have lost already by that point. Talon gives you better early to mid game because it boosts your first few levels and item timing a lot. I like it. Having a 20 minute passive midas jungler usually loses unless you are able to win without him anyway. A talon jungler still is something your team has to be able to take but he comes online fast and has impact early enough.
If you could at least disassemble it to make vlad's it could make a return to jungle lycan, or let an AM clear hard camp next to the lane quickly before getting treads and bfury. Not being able to disassemble it makes it way less useful. There are several items with recipes that can be disassembled too, so that's not an excuse either.
Also why do people want midas when jungling? The point of jungling is so you can farm up a core item faster than in lane to start having impact sooner. Playing a position 4 where you delay your farm by like 10-20 minutes just makes a harder time for your team. A 7-8min blink can get you kills really easy and help making space for your carry. While a midas just makes your team suffer.
Well, I never thought of that, really doesn't seem to make that much difference, at most, when you sell it you lose 250 gold which is tiny in comparison to how much more gold and exp it was able to afford you.
i agree with Relentless, since a bit of farm on a support can mean the difference between a force staff or a dead teammate, the marginal increase in farm is greater on a support. The quelling effect is actually very useful for supports to improve warding, juking and chasing occasionally and countering treant aghs and np. What i would like to see is talon to be able to disassemble, perhaps by changing the recipe for gg branches. The lower cost makes it more viable and also contributes towards a vlads, another decent support item, but its also useful on AM and lycan.
^Don't agree with relentless, the guy's full of shit. This 500 gold item will actually make your level 6 on lc come at 5 minutes instead of at least 6:30 minutes, it will also make your blink come at 6 minutes instead of 8. And this is a DEDICATED LVL 1 JUNGLER. Supports either have AoE nukes to help them farm the jungle WHEN THEY ARE NOT BUSY DOING OTHER THINGS, or they just pull, or do other things.
This is a tool for dedicated farmers, not fucking supports, guys. It does nothing for them, that 500 gold investment can literally be used for anything else, you can buy 4 mangos and you'll be more useful than with this item. Don't get it on supports, please, how the hell is an afk farmer's farming tool good for a support is fucking beyond me, unless you're actually ridiculously shitty at supporting and farm the jungle all the time instead of roaming/lane supporting while being a support that has NO AOE DAMAGE SPELLS. Also, even melee supports don't need the quell aspect of this item as much anymore since you can just walk up to deward most spots now, and if you're playing support well, you won't even have a slot for this item. The value of this item comes in place when you use it (almost) every 14 seconds, because that means your actual DPS against creeps increases while you're farming (and most often tanking damage), so that you tank less damage, and clear camps faster. Supports don't afk farm, or at least should not.
THE ONLY THING THAT IS BROKEN IS YOUR PENIS HAHHAAAAAHA
NO REALLY I WILL BREAK YOUR NECK AND KILL YOU.
AFTER THAT I WILL EAT YOU FUCKING PEACE OF GARBAGE.
It is true, so far no one ganks the enemy junglers at all in my games. It looks llike jungling has fallen enough out of the meta that people do not understand how to counter it anymore. I remember when I started dota 2 three years ago that, when I jungled in fucking low level nonranked I got repeatedly raped in the jungle.
But usually people at least have the intuition to be more agressive when they see less heros agaisnt them in the lanes. That of course stops working if you do not apply pressure early. If you get the enemy team time to get the level advantage having less people in lane brings you are starting to experience the first problems.
Yeah, it might seem like a solo dragon knight is no issue for you, but if he survives the lane and he's level 7 when the two of you are lvl 4, you'll get fucked over. People don't deny or zone enough in this bracket, either.
Actually it is kind of like with men or women who say that the opposite gender is only interested in sex. That usually is because the person making that remark has nothing else to offer. It is the same with most supports in 3k or lower. They think that support is boring because you have no impact, idle around in lane and do nothing late game apart from buying courier and wards. That usually is because they do not know what else they could/should do.
Iron talon is pretty shit item
^no wonder it's shit for you, considering what heroes you play.
This is no insult or anything, if you play those heroes dominantly, no wonder it's going to be shit for you. You mostly play ranged heroes anyway, who would not build quelling blade (except for against NP or some shit) to begin with, so Iron Talon's kinda out of question, especially since you aren't going to jungle early at all. Of all your recently played heroes, this item is only okay on Spectre and Jugg, spectre for early jungling where you don't hit hard and have no radi, and jugg to take out the big creep faster before you get bfury.
girl heroes 4head
i'm sorry i'm being asshole before this.
okay, i might be wrong so i just try your idea.
i pick lifestealer to jungle at level 1. then i build talon. i findout it's good item to helps hero jungling faster. around 10min my hero quite fast leveling compare to others. its ok item for jungling early game. just don't bother my lose because my team was gone wrong when roshan.
You can get a 12 minute radiance easily on druid with talon + tango start. Though when I jungle my team feeds all lanes so hard that I can't do shit so only hero I can successfully jungle with is ursa, cause I kill rosh early and start snowballing at 5-6 minutes.
^I edited out the 'asshole' portion of my post as well.
And yeah, this item's really good mostly for the first ten minutes, and to burst down hard camps up to until like 20th minute, makes no sense to keep it in your inventory for too long if you're actually just going around and killing people, but with heroes who can technically go to jungle at lvl 1, like lifestealer, lycan, legion, lone druid, ursa, bloodseeker etc, it can realy help you get your levels and gold and not get behind, especially if the game is passive enough that you can actually get a midas, since talon + midas let you skyrocket your farm even on heroes that are bad farmers, obviously if you have the time to spend in the jungle, otherwise if the game has too much stuff going on, lvl1 jungling might be a bad option, especially if you'd be able to get some exp/gold from those fights, much rapidly so than in the jungle.
But to be completely honest, what I think this item is the best for is just get your lvl6/blink dagger as soon as possible and go gank gank gank, because I don't think passive afk farming is good this patch, you want to capitalize on the early blink/lvl6 a lot more, and I say this as a LC player mostly, obviously the same thing applies to bloodseekers, ursas etc, who can actually get levels and farm much faster this way if they start in the jungle.
can i say talon is alternative item (cheaper version) for midas in jungling?
yeah
It sort of is, in regards to how much more experience you can get by bursting the large creep down now, but it falls of way too hard, because at some point you start hitting for more than 40% of creep's max HP, and you don't get theflat gold/exp bonus you'd get from Midas, so it's balanced that way.
Before, getting a 6min blink and 5min lvl6 on legion was pretty much impossible, now you can easily do it with good spawns.
I like it, since getting a Midas made you jungle longer because you delayed your item progression for farm. It gives you stronger late game but you might have lost already by that point. Talon gives you better early to mid game because it boosts your first few levels and item timing a lot. I like it. Having a 20 minute passive midas jungler usually loses unless you are able to win without him anyway. A talon jungler still is something your team has to be able to take but he comes online fast and has impact early enough.
If you could at least disassemble it to make vlad's it could make a return to jungle lycan, or let an AM clear hard camp next to the lane quickly before getting treads and bfury. Not being able to disassemble it makes it way less useful. There are several items with recipes that can be disassembled too, so that's not an excuse either.
Also why do people want midas when jungling? The point of jungling is so you can farm up a core item faster than in lane to start having impact sooner. Playing a position 4 where you delay your farm by like 10-20 minutes just makes a harder time for your team. A 7-8min blink can get you kills really easy and help making space for your carry. While a midas just makes your team suffer.
Well, I never thought of that, really doesn't seem to make that much difference, at most, when you sell it you lose 250 gold which is tiny in comparison to how much more gold and exp it was able to afford you.
i agree with Relentless, since a bit of farm on a support can mean the difference between a force staff or a dead teammate, the marginal increase in farm is greater on a support. The quelling effect is actually very useful for supports to improve warding, juking and chasing occasionally and countering treant aghs and np. What i would like to see is talon to be able to disassemble, perhaps by changing the recipe for gg branches. The lower cost makes it more viable and also contributes towards a vlads, another decent support item, but its also useful on AM and lycan.
^Don't agree with relentless, the guy's full of shit. This 500 gold item will actually make your level 6 on lc come at 5 minutes instead of at least 6:30 minutes, it will also make your blink come at 6 minutes instead of 8. And this is a DEDICATED LVL 1 JUNGLER. Supports either have AoE nukes to help them farm the jungle WHEN THEY ARE NOT BUSY DOING OTHER THINGS, or they just pull, or do other things.
This is a tool for dedicated farmers, not fucking supports, guys. It does nothing for them, that 500 gold investment can literally be used for anything else, you can buy 4 mangos and you'll be more useful than with this item. Don't get it on supports, please, how the hell is an afk farmer's farming tool good for a support is fucking beyond me, unless you're actually ridiculously shitty at supporting and farm the jungle all the time instead of roaming/lane supporting while being a support that has NO AOE DAMAGE SPELLS. Also, even melee supports don't need the quell aspect of this item as much anymore since you can just walk up to deward most spots now, and if you're playing support well, you won't even have a slot for this item. The value of this item comes in place when you use it (almost) every 14 seconds, because that means your actual DPS against creeps increases while you're farming (and most often tanking damage), so that you tank less damage, and clear camps faster. Supports don't afk farm, or at least should not.
Don't buy this on supports, please.
THE ONLY THING THAT IS BROKEN IS YOUR PENIS HAHHAAAAAHA
NO REALLY I WILL BREAK YOUR NECK AND KILL YOU.
AFTER THAT I WILL EAT YOU FUCKING PEACE OF GARBAGE.
WHITE POWER! THIS IS THE BEST NAZI FORUM EVER!