if u go for more of a core and dont have some natural inv holder on your side, u go for sb
if u are more of a supp, blink is better
also if u see that u r not going to kill people because of how enemies play/what the picked, sb makes no sense, id say. its worth it only if it guarantees kills for ya, imo.
never. - edit - when you want a silver edge to smack bristlebacks or dragonknights with
idk all these answers seem irrelevant tbh.
sblade is much better option if you want to focus on catching split pushers/slippery heroes.
is there any reason to get both though? and if you were to get both would you get one immediately after the other or go like blink into shivas then back for a SB (or vice versa - SB first, shivas then blink for example)
u get both when u feel like u need them, i never tried conciously analyze anything when making this choice
I don't see any reason in any decent game to go for silver edge. Doom is not really carry, and even if he can do it, there is better heroes that does it better.
It can work, but not in your MMR I think.
^well, i see a lot of ppl doing it, and if you check the very top of doom's rankings on dbuff, youll find ppl who go for sb every game. i dont think u r right.
Still, blink got way better winrate.
Calling reletless
defened me bro against evil dotabuff people :(
Im trash player, but I like going SB because you can solo gank enemy with crit and then Doom. Works wonders against heroes with good escape like Ember, AM, qop etc.
Get Shadowblade on Doom at low MMR when people are slow and fail to use truesight well. It is better because of the extra burst damage. It does also give you a passive slow when upgraded to sliver edge.
In Very High games you have to get blink, people will usually punish shadow blade.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/86802844/matches?hero=doom
While it is true that you can catch some players with shadow blade, the chances of doing this decrease the higher MMR you reach. The odds increase that someone will kill you because you relied on an escape that is easier to counter. It's not like SB and silver edge are trash, they just are not as effective as blink when players are very fast to react and likely to position correctly and use true sight correctly.
Good support will be ready to disable you before you can cast doom, having a gem or a sentry already placed. That is why you have to blink in, anything else is too slow. Even when you think you are attacking a solo split-pusher... you don't know they are not smoked behind him. The higher the MMR the more likely SB based attacks will fail.
@relentless
sb doesnt lose its viability in higher tiers, what u say is just wrong. however the way we use it may be a bit different.
f.e.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/93952459/matches?hero=doom
highest ranked not-pro-division doom player
gets sb in nearly every match of his
There are top ranking players who get sb and blink on Doom, and sometimes both. It's not about throwing, sometimes you need it or at least it makes things much easier.
Just look at this shit:
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/139876032/matches?hero=doom
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/86802844/matches?hero=doom
You want to scout using shadowblade and initiate using blink, if you need that sort of a thing in a match. Upgrading to silver edge is a luxury. Also, there were pro games with doom going blink + sb, I think it was MLG Championships, and this is what you do when you need both scouting and initiation against good players.
Also, please don't look at shadowblade's winrate. It's retarded. If you're winning you're likely to upgrade to silver edge to be more slot efficient, so comparing blink and sb's winrate is retarded.
Also, people underestimate invisibility at higher MMR/pro matches. Invisibility is good, guys. It applies pressure onto your team, it forces you to buy sentries, it makes you scared to go somewhere where sentries don't cover, it makes sure your cores will have to reserve one slot for dust, and you'll have to end up five manning while they happily farm in the end. You're also likely to be forced to get a gem, and possibly lose it at some point. Invisibility is not just a low mmr thing, it just works completely differently at low MMRs because people use it to do things they would not be able to do in high tier games. At higher MMR, people are both better at utilizing invisibility and countering it, so it kind of evens out.
I mean, for fuck's sake, one of the most popular heroes prior to the nerf was fucking bounty hunter. The whole "invisibility is a low mmr thing" claim is fucking bullshit. Also, pros regularly get sb/silver edge.
i looked through the next 10 highest ranked players
do you know how many of them do NOT go for sb?
guess what
1
1/11 best pub doom players according to dbuff rankings does not purchase shadow blade
http://www.dotabuff.com/blog/2015-11-05-the-alpha-and-the-wolf--doom-dominance
^ good read if you ask me ;)
I usually purchase Shadow Blade when I know I can get away with it. That emans, no invis heroes to begin with, I get it early on to make full use of it and I know that I can solo kill a guy with SB+Doom+few hits
Bounty Hunter used to be popular in pro games because track was so good. It has nothing to do with invisibility. While invisibility is not worthless, it is much easier to counter and riskier than blink initiations.
Scouting with an invis support hero is lower risk. Scouting with an invis core is not a good plan. If you get picked off it could mean your team cannot take a teamfight - a good team will automatically take a tower or rosh when you get picked-off because you trusted invisibility to scout.
Invisibility can be used to apply pressure early in the game, but once supports can afford true sight easily invis puts you at high risk and is easily countered. Unless you are slark you cannot know when you have been seen by wards.
Riki is picked 2.58 times as much below 2k than above 5k MMR. Riki loses 4.64% winrate from sub 2k to above 5k MMR.
Weaver is picked 2.37 times as much below 2k than above 5k MMR. Weaver loses 3.15% winrate from sub 2k to above 5k MMR.
Slark is a wininng hero in sub 2k MMR (51.15%) and a losing hero above 5k MMR (49.31%).
I am not saying that using invisibility is sure to fail at top MMR levels, or that it does not apply pressure to supports. All I am saying that blink is a better choice for initiating when people can react quickly and are likely to correctly use truesight. It may be that Doom can get away with using shadow blade in pub games often. But blink is much more certain.
Blink costs 2250 gold => pub winrate 56.39%
Shadoblade costs 2800 gold => pub winrate 47.69%
Silver Edge costs 5450 gold => pub winrate 62.82%
If you consider the games where ShadowBlade failed to be upgraded to Silver Edge in combination... then Silver Edge actually has a winrate of only 654,684/1,266,738 = 51.17% this month. It is worse than getting blink and costs 3X as much.
It is clear that Shadowblade is an inferior pub build overall to blink dagger. The cost to upgrade to Silver Edge is so large, you could get blink AND shadowblade for less.
And this may in fact be a good option, to go back for SB later, depending on the game situation. If you don't already have invis heroes on your team driving the enemy to get lots of true-sight, SB later may be a good option. If you need to use Break against one target (maybe PA) and would rather use Doom on a Storm Spirit, Silver Edge may be a good choice.
If you are going to use it to counter split pushing heroes more likely to be alone and without truesight, SB becomes more viable.
dagger is way better than shadowblade on doom.
still u can get it if your team already have initiator and dont invis hero or potentially shadow blade build.
I'd go shadowblade if it's a no brainer silver edge game. Like vs a PA or void or something where the break helps a ton. Then you don't need to rush aghs!
Blink can backfire horribly if you blink into a baited situation whereas shadowblade can help you scout out a bit before you doom, also consider blink range sight vs SB duration etc etc.
There is no win win, preference, scenario, comfort all play as factors. Both can do equally well so one is not better than the other.
I will say that people arguing in favor of initiation with blink, that if your team is reliant on doom as your primary initiation then you've probably lost already.
Some of you guys really are not cabable of reading. I don't think SB is a bad item on Doom. It's just not as good as blink for initiation at the highest MMR levels. It clearly has a lower winrate in pubs overall than blink.
"It's just not as good as blink for initiation at the highest MMR levels."
THAT is false
"While it is true that you can catch some players with shadow blade, the chances of doing this decrease the higher MMR you reach. The odds increase that someone will kill you because you relied on an escape that is easier to counter. It's not like SB and silver edge are trash, they just are not as effective as blink when players are very fast to react and likely to position correctly and use true sight correctly."
and THIS is false
"The higher the MMR the more likely SB based attacks will fail."
Guess what? THIS is bullshit, too.
well chris is a dumpsterplayer too so posting games stacking with him is equally irrelevant.
It's amazing how you are still all jealous of people I said anything positive about 2 years ago.
meh i prefer blink in 4k cause it's the only way i can actually doom someone worthwhile when it's always 5 vs 5
You go shadow blade on doom if you're more of a carry doom rather than offlane doom. You go blink when you're the initiator, shadow blade is more of "hit hard" and "im going for silver edge soon". But you never, ever get both.
"But you never, ever get both."
Except for when you do, right? Pros and high tier players occasionally get both. I like how many people tend to ignore that :3
this relentless guy seems to get shat on in just about every thread on this forum.. hmmmm
u get shadowblade for potential solo pickoffs on heroes like ember antimage etc split push type heroes, that are likely to be alone farming. but even if thats the case after the enemy team starts to group up more into the late game, u will still nid to buy a blink to initiate on in teamfights. by the way if u get a blink first u will never be able to doom a good ember or slark or etc, becuz of that shit cast time
Please sign in to post comments.
when would you get it instead of blink and why?
also when would you get both on him, and why?