Radiance first.
I only tried mid Naga (so I can't speak for safelane) but you need Aquila if you go brown boots + Bottle -> Radiance.
Maybe you won't need the regen from Aquila if you get Arcanes + Bottle -> Radiance
I'm not sure which is alternative is better, and I've seen rtz get Bottle + Aquila + Arcanes, which seemed excessive because additonal i.e. 3rd mana regen item would delay radiance by ~2 mins and he would probably run out of camps to farm before actually going oom
but RTZ prolly knows best, maybe it was just a situational build he did because he had S P A C E
Quelling blade is a good thing to have as you hit creeps a lot you get a lot of value out of it
ROA is very good because it buffs you illusions as well as giving mana
QB will lose a lot of value once you get Radiance, because like 2/3 - 3/4 of your farm will come from illusions' magic dmg (riptide + radiance burn)
I think you should always sell quelling blade before aquila for that reason ^ the loss of value of QB on Naga is instant once Radiance is acquired, Aquila on the other hand will gradually lose value as you get more stats
yes
Post a new commentI think QB ir a great item for naga given her bad base damage, it will net you last hits you would miss undertower. After get bottle and boots and if you can do it before 20 min go for radiance. If you mfind yourself struggling and unable to get it fast or even dying more than 2 times, forget it and go for diffusal. This is the carry naga but support naga is fine too
Well, you need radiance, even if you get radiance at 30 mins buy radiance and manta every game.
And QB is core cause adds dmg to illusions.
This is my build:
Poor man shield, QB, Arcane, (bottle or magic stick or aquila pick one or none) and then radiance every time, never never go diffusal until late game if you need it or if you can abuse the fact that the item is cheap and you can sell it later.
After radiance, disassemble arcanes and get BoT, then manta, then octarine.
Im in the low 4k mmr bracket (4k scrublord) and i have 100+ games with this hero in this patch
You can situationally go, as a safelaner without rune control:
1) Tangos, Salve, Quelling Blade, shortly after Stout Shield (if you have a side shop handy)
2) Boots, Aquila, Bottle, Radience
3) BoT, Yasha
4) Manta, Skadi (situationally heart, but skadi pretty much does everything better)
5) Diffusal and then Octarine or Butterfly
6) If you need to fight people more, and have already pushed into their base heavily, you can even sell Radience and get another heavy stat item, but make sure that they already can't def against you
What do you think about safelane bottle naga? I think it works sometimes if you're mobile and get some rune control too, but otherwise might not pay off.
I am asking because I am more likely to get brown boots and bottle, then upgrade brown boots to BoTs if nothing else is more important at the moment. I don't think I've ever gone arcanes on her, while I understand it gives good sustain, so does bottle, and if you're mobile around the map enough you should be able to refill it fairly frequently.
Was I mistaken with my assumption that QB doesn't boost illusion damage?
Perhaps I'm misremembering a different QB thing
The meta build on Naga for this patch is Poor Man's, Bottle, Mana Boots, and Quelling into radiance. Because the mana boots maintain relevance when built into Octarine for Naga, it is a safe item, and combined with the bottle, it increases your farming efficiency and uptime on the map.
The argument that Aquila makes illusions tankier is moot, in my opinion. Remember that illusion damage in is amplified, so there's no way you get that much return from Aquila. As for mana, Arcanes give an effective regen rate of 2.45 (135 mana/ 55 seconds), more than THREE TIMES greater than Aquila's regen.
^ I agree and thats the reason most of the times i skip aquila, but i have to recognize aquila is good for farming neutral camps with your main hero and is good for killing potential.
Kitrak, I'm glad you took such an interest in what I had to say that you felt you needed to discredit a valid stance by quoting statistics. Shit-slinging aside, the basis for my reasoning is not founded on MY personal games with Naga; I will admit to have barely played her and do not hold enough practice with her. I have only played her twice in the last patch, playing only one full game through, and my matches before that were 5 months ago, where I had roughly 30% less time spent on Dota. However, these conditions make it impossible for you to simply rate my understanding of the hero with such a blanket statement.
Watching professional players in the 6-7k tier allowed me to form a judgement based on what I saw. Just because I may not have the practice or experience in mechanically executing the hero does not mean my opinion will be so easily discounted.
When I say "meta" build, it is implied that it is in the current patch, with all the new items included. Just because a meta build in the past worked does not mean the same build can apply now when the game has massively changed. It also seems you have missed my comparison between Aquila and Arcanes.
As for the tankyness provided by Aquila, let's use a level 4 Naga with Poor Man's as an example. She has 32% reduction for physical damage. Add in the extra 3 armor from Aquila, it increases by 7%, so the difference is from 68% to 61% damage taken. With a level 2 Mirror Image, that means 340% damage that illusions take compared to 305%. Assume roughly 735 HP on that Naga with aquila and 680 without. That translates to an Aquila EHP for Illusions of 240 compared to non-aquila of 200.
A mere 40 EHP is NOT WORTH 1k gold. Yes, I know that these will scale later, but linear scaling is not enough to make Aquila worth it for "tankyness." You can calculate an EHP for Illusions of roughly 235 with a Bracer instead.
As for the Mana Regen, Bottle Adds an effective 1.75 Mana Regen, which when combined with my aforementioned Mana Boots stat lends 4.2 Mana + 1 base for a total of 5.2 Mana/Sec without bottle crowing. This means Aquila will add only 15% more mana regen to that number.
This all brings us to this: If EHP of Illusions increases by roughly 20%, and Mana Regen by 15%, it looks like a decent item for about 1k. This is wrong. Aquila is roughly 20% of a Radiance in cost and Illusion EHP really has no impact on farming speed. Naga's early farm is largely dictated by Riptide to deal damage, which is based on Mana. Even if you make the case that by some strange arithmetic you farm a full 20% faster with Aquila than without, you must realize that the later the game goes, the less a linear progression of gold is worth, just like any economy. Radiance serves to multiply her farm rate, and there are right and wrong items to speed and slow down her progression.
The conclusion is that it would seem to be much more efficient in terms of game economy to simply skip Aquila altogether. I'm not saying it is necessary to, nor am I saying that in all scenarios one would do this. I do, however, think that the changes to Arcanes and the addition of Octarine in the last patch have made Arcanes rather than Aquila to be a much stronger choice. In my example, I provided context where Arcanes would be picked up alongside Aquila. In a either-or scenario, Mana would be much more heavily impacted by the loss of Arcanes.
@Nahgz, the mana regen anysis is right, but the part about main hero / illusion EHP isn't correct at all imo
How so? I used lv 2 Mirror Image as the basis for the calculation. Having 500% incoming damage means 68% damage taken becomes 340%, and 61% converts to 305%. You then divide the hero HP by that damage multiplier to obtain EHP.
735/3.05 = 240.98
680/3.4 = 200
EHP is based upon what damage you take after reduction, is it not?
As an example 30% resistance means 70% taken, meaning 100% HP / 70% = 142.86% HP
If I haven't cleared up what you think is my mistake, please let me know.
@Nahgz when i build aquila on naga i never think on make her illusions tankier, that item gives you +18 dmg +9 AS and +4 armor apart from the hp and mana/mana reg, so you farm faster with your hero and take less damage from neutrals AND you can fight better if needed.
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Hey guys, i wanna ask some questions about Naga, do i need Quilling blade? and what I have to go first: Radiance, Manta or Diffusal,one more thing: do really need ring of Aquilla, if im rushing Radiance first?