Partially contingent on support picks tbh.
When you say fit in the meta your not talking the pro game right? Last time in 6.84 I saw void was offlane universe.
voids used to use bubble for fast kills. back in the days.. i guess it could work nowadays similar like the naga ult. bring ur team into position and disable to make an important kill.
this hero in this meta just so noob. seriously. 1 eul / stuns / anything basically countered him anyway. without chrono he dead. pretty much get kited.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
A well placed Chrono is a Jakiro/Elder Titan's wet dream though. Too bad nobody plays those heroes :(
the only problem of void right now, is that fucking solarcrest being too broken. Else he could be good
It's nice if you can have a skywrath support, since even if you're behind ancient seal+ult from sky in your chrono helps killing even really fed heroes (since time lock is magic damage, it will also be buffed from seal). Though utility items can still fuck him up pre-bkb.
There is also the problem of defensive supports being popular right now. Dazzle, WW or even ES can save someone inside the chrono.
its not really that the hero is bad ( though spirit breker is mostly a better version of him in terms of offlane void) and that he needs a buff. it's more because he just gets fucked really hard by solar crest. so not only will the caught hero in chrono have extra armor, but now he has 30% evasion making him hard to even land hits on him. they really just need to nerf solar crest and i think he'll be fine because buffing him directly and nerfing items that counter him sounds like a really bad idea and can potentially make him overpowered and no one wants a bash lord hero being overpowered after what happened with a certain warlord *cough* troll warlord *cough*
Well every rightclicker gets countered by solar crest, anti mage, gyro, ta, PL, etc. So i dont find this smth that really affects him more than other carries. Its true that anti-mage, gyro, TA with stacks of ancients, and possibly PL with BoTs farm faster than void tho
its becuz he typically needs to focus down 1 target, and his dps window is only during chrono mostly
well mom got nerfed and you basically need aghs to be able to fight. and a crest. its a lot to ask from a hero.
its still good if you get off a good start, but its not as good as it was before.
i would rather have void offlane really than void carry, if he is your main source of dps in chrono then i got bad news
Ah' yes, i remember when i just started Dota early last year, back when Void was considered a threat, could wipe half the enemy team away with just one chrono, now... now he's just Faceless fraud, and his new design ensured that. He's still a cool hero though.
I agree with everything Peruvian said, but i didn't think ags was good at him at all, might try it sometime, i know it was good back in his OP days, but didn't think it was viable as of now.
btw, if you play with agahs, you are playing void wrongly, it was bad, and it's still bad. Even now, you just need to put tread int if you want to double chrono.
@allu, you are both wrong and right.
Solar crest is much more of a pain on void, cause you can use it directly on him.
Ta is all about burst, so offensiv use of solar is harder on her (invis/blink) and it's not that easy to put the solar on time on the target you want to save (if it's not already too late after that meld-refraction hit). Sf and gyro can totally rely on magical damage till their mkb.
Am makes manta which dispell it, and is much more mobile in fight, so he can easilyer change of target, he also farm so much faster for his mkb. so void is actually much more affected
And on top of that as you pointed it, void doesn't flash farm, or at least cann't, when he needs to rush bkb to survive the early encounter.
Anyway, solarcrest is a fucking pain, and between this and glimmer cape (which imo should not give invis at all, but recover its magic resistance like it was before -or mb invis only on self-) heroes such as tb didn't diserved a single nerf, troll woulda need a scaling nerf (same power at max level). we could mention litteraly every hero that right click, but isn't very bursty, or have ton of magic damage. Dk, sven, ursa, jugg, medusa, n'aix (oh god i really miss this guy, but with those item, i think he cann't even counter gyro properly) alchemist etc....
^aghs for cd reduction and increased duration is not worth it?
when you are not primary source of dps in your team
If you get ealy battlefury, you can still outfarm and kill whatever you want. Maelstrom build suck tho now, i think you need more dmg ealy in this patch honestly, so going for battlefury sucks, although it's hard to win otherwise. Idk honestly, void just doesnt feel like the right pick right now in any of the games.
the cd reduction is not worth it, come on, it's short enough. And the duration is not worth it aswell for the cost (at least this one might be debatable)
And yeah maelstrom suck on void, and it always did
void is one of my best carries and im 15-6 with him this patch. i think hes fine to use if u know how to use him and itemize correctly. any hero can be effective in the right game we all know this. with void this patch i generally try to join a fight or two early. enemy doesnt expect and it can swing the game in ur teams favor if u land a good chrono. i also like to pick off enemy carry after i get MoM. Usually you'll be able to kill them by yourself b/c they'll be weak. Example I played vs antimage the other day solo killed him with chrono early on and ended up winning the game.
and i disagree that maelstrom build sucks i do it every game. depending on enemy team i will finish mjollnir/crystalys or go mkb (if im playing PA/WR). i try to not go bkb if i can help it. late game items i want daedalus, butterfly, heart/skadi if i need more survivability. as for aghs or refresher i think both are good but i would lean towards aghs more often personally
Voids ulti is still amazing initiation and lock down, if landed correctly you can win every team fight and he can get fed of pick offs with MoM and Crit then go into BKB/MKB what ever. Great hero.
The problem of maelestrom void, is that the item itself is cost effective, but mjolnir isn't. (especially if you went mom, which is more or less a must have, (unless you are really great at last hitting with neutral creep with dominator, while you are ACTIVE on the map somewhere else, so basically almost no1)
cristalis always been superior to maelstrom, a bit less cost effective, but that's fixed when you upgrade it. Not to mention that it help better to clean ancient stack, and you can get your bkb earlier (which is fucking needed if you go mom).
Fighting wise, both cristalis and maelestrom achieve similar rate to kill and to farm. but cristalis has a way better scaling.
Farming wise, bf ofc.
The mjolnir void went a thing for so long just cause almost everything was good with void at that moment, even diffusal first would have worked easy. Hell i even saw tons of necro book rush (no madness) void working like a charm, and scaling enough for him for the later part of the game...
I think he doesnt know/remember that Chrono now has a 100+ sec and to get it back to the old 70sec u need aghs
actually nevermind he just said in the post that the CD reduction isnt worth it.
honestly, if u aim for the long run, i think too that Aghs will just fill up a slot
@matrice I've never tried straight up skipping maelstrom. I'll try it out and see how it goes. Can't argue against you if I've never really done it. Crit definitely scales better ill give you that. I just always felt maelstrom helped farm faster and kill potential is there. As for bkb I don't think it's needed all the time. I don't get it too often honestly.
you cant do refresher anymore without aghs, coz you simply dont have mana. and its way better to have ulti every minute than having +1dmg item in 6 slots anyways.
you get aghs before you get 16 anyways most of the time, ulti at lvl 2 is 115 seconds, with aghs 60. dont tell me casting 2 ulties with a hero whose ulti is his bread and butter is not worth it.
anyone remembers offlane void?, it was all because of chrono.
@xan I generally don't get agha b/c it's just better to get another dmg/dps item imo. he's right the cd reduction isn't worth it. it's not bad but it's not optimal
the thing is ur not gonna be fighting every 60 seconds. i've never really had issues with my ulti not being ready for teamfights unless i buyback to defend or something in which case you would need a refresher not an aghs
if youre not gonna use ulti whenever its off the cd you are better off playing another farming carry.
I never had a problem with the cd of chrono. it's just so short. And if ever you'll play against a team of 60 sec cd ult, what do you do?
you (your team ^^) just clean from distance one wave of creep, and tada you also have your cd.
Edit: also, as @mrbabynonsense
But really, for that 1 second of chrono. you can go cuirasse for example, much more a threat solo, and you might give much more impact with that aura than that 1 sec of chrono (yeah it cost 1100 gold more, but you have at least one item to help you farm, and along with bkb, you'll become extra hard to kill, unlike with agah)
you also have necro, you are a big threat alone, can unward, and with micro management, those necro will often do much more than that 1 sec, not to mention the aura (and lvl 2 necro is cheaper ^^)
you'll also have simply going dps item, while would you want to spent aditional time, when you can go faster...
The only moment I truly find that agah interesting, is when you are position 3.5 or 4. There, you have so few gold -as a void, almost every sup can farm more in that position ^^-, that you'll never end anything.
(hell even going refresher first is better ....) So if by accident you'll finish agah, yeah you gonna be more usefull with a finished agahs than with a 3/4 of cuirasse (for example). But void is no longer strong enough to be played just as a walking ultimate.
The main problem of that agahs, and why it's hard to see why it's rather ineficent, is cause void is either, we lack damage, nothing can work, or we have enough damage and anything is fine. But the rare game you are in between, all those game that are close, (and once again, with void, more than most heroes, this is a narrow corridor of game)
going agah is what gonna make you lose
this is how your void should look like with 3 items
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1779700732
and im sorry but aghs means you have ulti up, every single fight. 40 seconds downtime is nothing to sneeze at.
look at another hero that was all about his ulti, dp, utli cd gets nerfed and hero disappears from the face of the earth.
Matrice actually got a point, voids i encountered either had enough damage to kill multiple people during chrono, or hadn't any damage whatsoever so Chrono served just like a 6 seconds stun for team
@peruvian, wd, yeah why not, there the 1 sec is really great with it.
Phoenix -> no difference
skywrath -> have you ever seen a skywrath casting his ultimate with such a short period of time ??? Either he is core and what he fear the most are bkb, so you have to go damage, either he is support, and simply don't have the mana for it (or he'll just run fountain everytime and don't do his support job)
@Xan, by definition a carry have not to make the first move, if he is much better in late game than opponent's carry (and void is definitly). So no you are not supposed to used it as soon as it's cd is ready. Being too agressiv, even if being awarded in this version, is still bad (just look how eg adjusted at ti, and got easy win on cdec, while there were being crushed earlier).
Ofc, he can then and then do something, cause no pressure at all suck.
Exactly like how in sc2 you may want to go lategame, (mecka terran lol) but if you do nothing, a smart enemy gonna just expand faster than you and crush you with his bank (lol at zerg with 15k-15k rebuilding 3 times :p)
+ dp didn't died cause of ult, otherwise, with octarine (similar to bloodstone, but way better in everyaspect for dp) she would have comeback. It's the multy glyph that killed her.
thats one game xan. youre not getting aghs every game. yeah ive gotten aghs before on void but not often. i go treads MoM maelstrom crit/mjoll then dmg/late game items. as void you will be farming fast enough that you'll be stronger than enemy usually. u dont need the aghs to kill and fight
@matrice afaik void wasnt picked once this ti, so comparison is irrelevant.
dp too.
and yes, dp died coz ulti got severely nerfed multiple times. its 145 seconds now. glyph or no glyph thats fucking too long and core costs a shitton.
i can find you more games where people make aghs on void, but i wont. ill just agree to disagree.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1771557569
Look, void game by Black, no upgraded maelstrom, no aghs, still did very well, and with a chrono he was able to kill multiple heroes, probablyy wont happen with an aghs.
This thing with void aghs or no aghs i think its based on playstyle, if u are really agressive, a style that benefits midgame, aghs is good cuz it allows more fights. If u are more of a defensive player, whats the point of aghs, as matrice said, ur not going to make the first move as void late game, just bcuz u are not forced to due to the fact that you are probably stronger than the opposition.
Also i dont see a scenario where void would be actually forced to make the first move, the most plausible ones are either if he is against spectre and he chrono him before using haunt, or maybe against Antimage if void is the one sieging highground as u are at the risk of getting blinked> abyssaled and all your mana is gone, so u cant use chrono.
But if u got someone else to tank, attack towers and u can stay a little bit behind u are gucci
I feel the best way to play void is to have mek and around 29 healing salves in your inventory. When a teamfight breaks out, chrono both teams, pop mek and salve all your allies yelling "SLASHER'S WAY!"
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So how does this guy fits the meta/ how u can build him around the meta.
he ca help in some early agression with just a good chrono placement, and few rightclicks with treads-MoM-maelstorm.
also how u build this guy nowadays, i want to know after u get treads-MoM-maelstorm-bkb ( only if needed ofc) what do u get? Aghs seems pretty good just cuz of CD reduction, but in the long run it seems smarter to go for some damage as daedalus, or mkb.
also is skadi worth on this guy just to be able to manfight outside of chrono and maybe for a future refresher if u didnt go aghs? Or is the 6.82 glass cannon void just that much better?
share ur thoughts pls