get brown boot before finishing your aquila. (its ok to get basi depending on lane)
satanic shouldn't be core on most illusion heroes. satanic is for high hitters and STR carries. for example: chaos knight.
you're totally forgetting diffusal blade. way better than all 3 items suggested for illusion heroes. it's incredibly cheap AGI/$ and still gives you like 35 IIRC.
nothing is wrong with a HoT. generally I do prefer a skadi as well, but some games you just need pure tank. imagine a naga siren with radiance, HoT, and diffusal2. she does like 80dmg per illusion plus 50dps and you just can't kill her illusions. (and also the water wave thing)
only buy bfly if you can make use of the attack speed or evasion. watch their carry's timing on their MKB or if they can even buy one.
only buy eblade if the active will help you. generally for disarming one of their cores, or protecting yourself. though you could use it as a finisher for some heroes. (wyvern for example)
also, you're not at 3-4k mmr. you're at like 3-3.5k mmr at most. most of your games are normal skill (2-3k mmr).
Thank you for your timely response ^.^
I have mostly been playing as TB, and as bots are generally quite stupid, I have to be in more uneven fights than I'd like to. For this reason alone I get Satanic (for the active). I do see your point though, and in most cases I would opt for something that better suits an agility illusion-based carry. When I finally start playing these heroes in actual pubs, I'll change this up. Thanks for pointing that out ^.^
I'd like to say now that I didn't forget diffusal blade; I see it as core on Naga and Phantom Lancer, and barely situational on Tb (please correct me if I'm wrong). So when I put the three together, I intentionally left it out. I completely agree with you though; it's an amazing and cost effective item. My question then is, should I get it before or after my Yasha? And if after, should I finish Manta first? I would think that Yasha > Diffusal > Manta would be the way to go.
HoT is situational, of course. I was just saying I like Skadi better for a tanky item in most cases. And Naga's water wave thing is cool. (Rip Tide)
If all you are getting butterfly for is the evasion (tankiness), wouldn't it just be better to tank up with a HoT or Skadi? Because IMO raw stats is always better than evasion RNG. Unless you are lucky. And your enemies are poor. Plus the attack speed is negligible IMO. Gloves of Haste gives 20 AS, and Butterfly gives 30 AS.
Admittedly, the eblade active isn't the greatest thing about it. I would mainly get it for the stats. But this is one of the main things I'm questioning, is there a better item than eblade as a 6th item? Something that has such a great use on an illusion carry that its better than 40 agility?
Solo mmr is about 3.2k. Party is 3.8k. Therefore, 3-4k (range wise. Sorry if that was unclear. Last thing I would ever want to do is mislead someone on the interwebs).
THANK YOU once again for responding. I like hearing people's opinions, because I can be completely wrong with my own sometimes.
TB TB TB :O
Brown boots> RoA > Yasha > BoT > SnY > Skadi > Breakdown SnY (Yasha>Manta) > Butterfly
TB for the potential sunder e-blade combo. also zenoth stopped going triple bfly on TB and gets diff 2 and e-blade.
also butterfly forces mkb carriers to defend the base if you're split pushing, supports can't handle bfly illus but they can with skadi.
bfly's great unless you're against someone who normally gets mkb like gyrocopter. if the enemy can't fully kill your illusions with nukes, illusions with 35% evasion are way harder to get rid of than illusions with a little extra hp. if bfly's "easily" countered by mkb, skadi is "easily" countered by more damage. bfly forces enemies to get mkb, which is generally a suboptimal damage item.
even if the evasion is countered, you're trading 1 slot for 1 slot. you get 30 agi which is still helpful to you and your illusions, and against the other heroes that don't have mkb, and the have a suboptimal damage item, plus if you get bfly before the mkb that creates a power spike where you have 50% more ehp to physical, and forces them to stop their current item progression to get mkb while butterfly accelerates your farm - by the time they get mkb, you have another item.
I just remember the game enemy T B did tripple kill on our rax while the original did roshan
tb is still a strong force... he just needs 50min afk farm. :( meta wise, naga and pl are possibly stronger right now. just watch out for ur one strong counter ember spirit. (possibly lc as well, but he kinda falls off in late vs illusions, while ember gets only stronker)
I've seen 3 different Phantom Lancer players build Daedalus in my games.
Normal skill is a place of wonders.
Juxtapose illusions deal 12% damage, big reduction after any armour reduction on top of that.
The actual increase in dps is inefficient imo. Raw agi will always be better paired with a diff blade.
Nah, PL is not splitpusher anymore, he is a manfighter. BoTs, diff2 skadi, Manta is core, MKB situational, Abbysal is really good, daedalus could work, but if they get solar crest meh, butterfly if they do not have a natural mkb carry
I've never understood building +damage stat items on illusion carries. Seems like such a waste of gold.
The active on abyssal is crazy but that's 85 damage that only goes on the main hero.
Sure, it'd be worth the gold to lockdown those pesky AMs and QoPs so you can murder them. But the slow from skadi and diff purge would be enough to overrun any hero without a decent escape.
I see deadalus as a core on pl what u do vs low Mana Strg heroes? Imagine sth like ck or slardar with an AC u can burn them 500 mana and after that u will just do zero Dmg
Low mana strength heroes are food for PL, only exception being cleave heroes like Sven and Tiny w/ aghs.
And the mana burn is a means to an end, not his only source of damage.
I just find daedalus wasteful, it's a 5k gold item that doesnt buff your illusions by enough to justify the cost.
PL is really about hitting more not harder. More hits = more illusion procs = more damage
There is always a real pl and He get buffed for a shitload of Dmg with deadalus Its Not ONLY about the Illusions
Well, PL has a 69.23% winrate when he picks up Daedalus, according to Dotabuff.
How can i argue with that?
![Ath[e]isT](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/fe/fef49e7fa7e1997310d705b2a6158ff8dc1cdfeb_full.jpg "Ath[e]isT")
Also you guys over look the fact that illusions get crits .......so if you buy a daedalus on pl his illusions will gain the crit passive however crits on images will get the same reduction in DMG as the image
I think butterfly is great on TB cus his illusions are pretty legit, if you can't dispel/purge/1 shot them then they are hard to take down and butter makes them more so. Lifesteal is garbage though, don't get dominator. I think if you haven't won by the time you get boots of travels, aquila, s&y, butterfly, skadi you probably aren't winning regardless. I mean we can theorycraft 6 slot TB builds but in the end you should've raxed before you get to that point.
A lot of players find dominator good for early fighting TB, they'll go treads and dominator then try to fight people. With meta is does steal a decent amount of hp, but TB still sucks at fighting. Better to rush yasha and travels and take towers.
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For reference:
Butterfly: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Butterfly
Ethereal Blade: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Ethereal_Blade
Eye of Skadi: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Eye_of_Skadi
Although I generally play the #5 support, I have recently been practicing illusion based carries against bots. I generally go (differs from hero to hero):
Ring of Aquila > PT > Drums > Manta > Eye of Skadi > BoT
(btw I don't like Heart on illusions. Yes, it makes them tanky, but it gives them 0 damage. An Eye of Skadi effectively gives around the same amount of hp while at the same time gives you damage, attack speed, mana, and mana regen to summon more illusions. See why I like it more?)
At this point in the game, I am more or less 6 slotted (yes, I keep my PT with my BoT). I know I am going to replace my drums, Ring, and PT. Depending on the game, I will get a HotD into a Satanic, so that's one item replaced. Also depending on the game, I will get a BKB when I need it, so that's another item replaced.
So lets just say as an example that at this point I am:
Drums, Manta, Eye of Skadi, BoT, Satanic, and BKB.
I have one item to replace (drums). My question for you is, which of the three should I go for in order to replace my last and final item?
And to give you some idea, here's what I think.
Butterfly is the most useful for your hero, but at the same time is useless for your illusions. It only gives 5 more agility than an Eye of Skadi, and the attack speed and raw damage do not carry over to your illusions. The evasion is nice, but at the same time is easily countered by an MKB.
Eye of Skadi gives the least agility of the three, but also gives the most hp. I would go for a second Eye of Skadi if I needed my illusions to be tankier, and didn't need the attack speed or damage that the agility gives.
Ethereal Blade gives the most agility, and also gives 10 strength (which results in 190 hp). This already makes it better than the butterfly, and makes it the ideal damage dealing item for your illusions. It gives them the most attack speed of the three, and the same can be said for the damage that it gives. It also gives you a great nuke to either blow up supports or disable an enemy carry.
I would pick the Ethereal Blade, unless I just needed tankiness (in which case, Eye of Skadi is my pick). I'm curious as to what other people think, so fire away.
(Oh, and if you are going to look at my account to see my gpm / last hits, go right ahead. In fact, I encourage you to. Use me as an example. Just understand that I generally play the #5 support. I can easily hit 10+ CS with 900 gpm against hard / unfair bots as an illusion carry. Not saying this to brag or anything, cuz I know there are people way better at this than me. I just want you guys to understand where I'm at. I'm ~3k - 4k mmr.)