General DiscussionSpectre Help :)

well, Im a very bad player too (normal skill) but usually, urn > mask of madness and maxing desolate works wonders for me, if I can farm those up fast, I'll get a radiance from all the gold from kills, or if game is tough I'll get a diffusal, after that it's pretty much game dependant bkb/manta/butterfly/skadi/heart all are very viable options

also you get phase boots over treads

Thanks very much man, we should play together some time hahaha @FullTiltEngaged

haha sure if you can bear the cesspool that is SEA

phase and mask of madness => DUMB SHIT. retards make this build, ppl without brains. so if anyone tells u to do that, tell them to go fuck themsleves. u can slow with diffusal and dagger, no need for phase, u need the early str more from the treads. and mask of madness is stupid too

Go standard pms, treads, diffusal, radiance, manta, heart, butterfly maybe vanguard early if u need it

love how you called mask of madness stupid and gave insightful reasons for it :) moron.

on topic, in normal skill you're gonna go 2v2 and almsot any competent dual lane shits on spec, you'll need the mom to jungle to catch up.

Being another normal skill player, it often is hard to get radiance before it loses use. I aim to get radiance by 25 minutes, otherwise my general build is phase diffusal vanguard manta diassemble and make it into heart.

If you get radiance, then radiance and continue build

spectre's build is very much dependent on the enemy hero with the exception of you stomping the enemy (then go radiance)

if you are doing badly because you get nuked, specs tend to go a tanky item like vanguard followed by blademail
if your enemies are mostly squishies, an aggressive build would be mom->basher

another viable build besides the usual radiance is diffusal blade rush

either way spectre is pretty simple to learn and at his core, it is all about last hitting for him

there are many spectre's builds actually
phase - radiance - manta - heart - butter - daedalus
phase/pt - mom - yasha - (situational)
pt - urn - diffusal - yasha - radiance - manta

add vanguard whenever u feel like u need early survivability
also in his meta the last variant seems to be the optimal one

if you're playing in SEA. Add me up, BlackXargon and I can walk you through how to play Spectre from Normal to High to Very High.

Conservatively, you can raise your MMR til 4K if you know how to play her.

you want to come online early in 6.84 so don't rush radiance.

get an early ring of health so you can get some farm from the jungle as well as the lane.

if you max dagger then you can skip phase boots but i prefer to max desolate so phase is preferable for chasing people down.

only get 1 point in dispersion early unless you are really struggling - extra points only give 4% extra health as opposed to 10% from the first point (iirc)

personally i think the nerfed mom is silly on spectre unless you are overskilled. you're already squishy early game and i'd rather put the money towards diffusal.

seeing as you would never build crimson guard and you can't disassemble vanguard, if i wanted it i'd probably just get the ring of health and red smartie (pms is usally my first item) red smartie goes into heart later on and ring of health gets you started on a refresher.

this all works for me and i'm normal...

why would you get ring of health when urn's the same price. lifesteal is also 25g more and you're going to get more regen from it that what ring of health provides.

going treads with max desolate isn't bad, attack speed is more synergistic with flat damage bonuses (such as that from desolate) than more damage and chasing is irrelevant if you can kill people before dagger's speed ends, and it's a 12 second slow. if you're not lacking slots, get orb of venom if needed. the extra cost of going treads + oov instead of phase aren't negligible, you get more dps, you can tread switch, and more HP is useful with dispersion.

i don't see the point of going vit, pms and ring. just get a vanguard if you're going to get all 3 components of it. at least with vanguard you save item slots. vit + PMS is understandable because it's *much* cheaper than vanguard and you only have to sell the PMS, but vit + PMS + ring is stupid, it's more gold, less survivability, and slot inefificient. the ring basically negates the gold you think you're saving by not having to build vanguard and using the vit booster for heart.

wasting item slots is not good when you're supposedly trying to come online early because you want lots of efficient items in each item slot to give you the best possible chance of winning early engagements, and you're also ignoring urn - the go-to item for spectres that want to be effective early - when urn is less than half the price of vit + ring, yet does the same job and more.

mom is presumably for rushing radiance right after but the radiance 'rush' is more consistent than if you had just went naked radiance (which is very hit-or-miss), since you have sustain and can fall back to the jungle. mom pays for itself from not having to go back to base, being able to kill extra creeps every minute and also not a bad item for helping you get pickoffs. 100 attack speed with desolate is stupid damage, and the nerfed ms boost doesn't hurt you as much as it does other heroes as you have dagger.

roh is better lane sustain than urn or mod, i think it depends on the situation imo..
phase/treads urn/roh/mom have good conditions for each of them

imo skill build is situational, you need to max dagger if you need chasing
or desolate if you have some kind of initiation on your team (ex. LC) so they lock down your target and you can ult and hit them

and best build is probably treads oov urn -> radiance

clearly everything is situational but I don't see the point of picking spectre of you aren't aiming for a late game build - you need to come online early for the farm from kills but you're purpose is to grow into a 1v5 hero - there's better gankers otherwise.

She's a pretty bad farmer without radiance so imo I'd rather not spend ~3k gold on urn and vanguard knowing I'll lose half of that later on - so I agree they are better mid game items but by going a bit suboptimal I feel you'll reach your late game itemisation faster my way but aren't handicappung your team whilst you farm a relic.

It's not as if someone else on your team can't build an urn.

look, its a subjective question and ppl will always disagree. But check my spectre stats and items.

in my experience if u can make radiance by 15-25min, it almost always pays off. MoM, let me reiterate, is a shit item on spectre - spectre jungles good with just treads and max dispersion, srsli.

There are many options later as in rushing vanguard (its situational) , but i always pick up poor man's shield in the start and i always go for treads over phase. Phase is a stupid concept on a hard carry like spec. Let me explain why

1. U ALREADY HAVE A PHASE ABILITY

2. U NEED ATTCK SPEED OVER STATIC DAMAGE BY THE MID GAME AND LATER ON

3. THE EARLY HP IS FANTASTIC. I'VE HAD ENEMY ROTATING MID GANKS ON ME AND SURVIVED DUE TO THE EARLY GAME HP FROM STR TREADS, EVEN KILLED THEM BACK WITH MY USUAL MAX-DISPERSION SKILL BUILD

4. U HAVE TWO FUCKING SLOWS FROM DAGGER AS WELL AS DIFFUSAL WHY THE FUCK WOULD U MAKE PHASE

5. UR NOT TROLL WARLORD

6. TREAD SWITCHING SAVES LIVES

phase boots -> vangaurd pretty safe....radiance is just good for farming even if it's late, allows you to split push really well at any stage of the game...go into manta then heart , then ac ...butter, diffusal if u need to chase people down...ur team needs to create space if ur having a bad early game,

anything works in normal skill so do whatever u want if ur good enough

i don't like vanguard, if you're not getting a fast radiance i like getting urn and maybe drums, i think generally there's no need for vanguard.

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/109905590/matches?date=&hero=spectre&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&faction=&duration=&enjoyment=any&timezone=Etc%2FUTC

idk i think spectre is a hard hero in low pools because it's a radiance hero, you need to farm efficient and a new player doesn't farm efficient.

i dislike MoM at all i think s4 (?) did it in a pub game he was winning anyways and now ppl do it, MoM is not a good item on spectre.

i prefer phase over treads because it gives me easier last hits and i'm faster, so it increases my farm. if the enemy is contesting my farm treads might me better but i normally want to avoid fights and only steal some kills (with my phase boots speed).

i dislike diffu.

but all in all i'm not a good player so maybe i might be wrong.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1270928232
i am a retard