General Discussion

General DiscussionNeed some help please...?

Need some help please...? in General Discussion
DeliriumX

    So I was looking at my stats and comparing them to some of the pro supports (obviously mine are lacking) but the main difference is my deaths per game. My kills are a little low so is my xp and gold per minute. My assists are ok but my deaths are about 3-2.5 more per game so what am I doing wrong?

    Obviously positioning is key as a support. However I don't tend to get caught out (while warding etc). Mostly I die during team fights/scrimmages. I try not to trade deaths unless it's favorable to my team my death for 2+. My biggest problem is when my team is team fighting and I can see we are picking a bad fight (positioning wise). I tend to do my best under the circumstances and hope for the best instead of walking away. Is it better to go in and fight knowing that you are likely to die or to stay away but and do as much as you can without risking death? Any comments or suggestions are most welcome. Thanks in advance.

    BenaoLifedancer

      why do you keep fighting in teamfights? you're a support, you're there to enhance the power of your team,
      just hit, back out, hit your skill again. you foresee a lost fight? why stay? do the minimum and gtfo

      no incoming chat

        What Benao said. You shouldn't right click in fights. You should always be behind your team, so they can't initate on you.

        xyzFaith

          Benao pretty much said it all.

          DeliriumX

            Completely agree but what do I do after. I feel so helpless I do my job we lose fight because of whatever factors. (obviously not every game but those in that which happens) I live and back out and then go farm? Pulls, stack? I can't defend the subsequent push alone... How do you influence the outcomes of those fights as a support?

            (example we lose fight and I live. now they are pushing T-3 and have blink initiators. I have no way to aggro creeps without coming in range and being blown up. I know that but do I still try to at least delay and maybe save racks by dying or do I play it safe and wait for respawns?) It's those kind of decisions that are hardest for me.

            xyzFaith

              Well if your team lost the fight and if you did all you can then it's not really your fault. The objective of the support, like Benao said, is to enhance your team to turn the favor to your side, also it depends on the support you choose. Players like Dazzle, SS etc. those squishy players are the ones you should keep back and just do what you can.

              Don't focus on the enemy rather focus on your team and help them in any way you can. Don't initiate or start a battle wait for a battle to begin and if you have a opportunity to either do damage to the enemy team or aid your team depending on the hero you pick, then the battles would normally turn to your favor.

              If it turns out you are the last on then there is not much for you to do, and no reason to feed them just wait for respawn and do your best to hold the enemy back in a cautiously manner.

              Note: Never leave your carry, follow them wherever they go and help them farm don't take the last hits for you don't need items, as much as your carry does.

              This comment was edited
              Androgynous

                if you're the last one (or two) people on your team, and you can't stop the rax from being destroyed, then DON'T. just stay in the fountain so that you don't feed and wait for all of your teammates to spawn to give your team the best chance of winning the next fight. if you try to defend your barracks 2v5 when there's no chance of saving it, what happens is you get picked off, and when the rest of your team spawns, they're now 3v5 instead of having a full team up, which lets the enemy continue taking your base.

                Relentless

                  https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1486866450
                  0-8-0 on Crystal Maiden.

                  How did this happen? Were you throwing? If not the mistakes you made in this game may highlight by exaggeration the type of mistakes you need to focus on avoiding.

                  DeliriumX

                    Techies played well. I got blown up was the only one supporting and every chance I had I bought sentries. But he dewarded the sentries. I only had boots and I literally got them at the end of the game. We got destroyed as a team. NO rotations no help. Those games do not happen very often. But you are right that was a horrendous game.

                    Relentless

                      I have played 99 CM games in dota 2 and only one of them had KDA less than 1. CM is nearly the most powerful hero in the game at level 2. With the potential for 2 nukes that do 250 magic dmg and slow/root for 6 sec! and then its up again 3 sec later!. So she should be winning every game at the start. She nearly always wins early clashes/ganks. By level 5 permanent slow/root is possible....but people using get the aura, because its easier.

                      Anyway the point is CM can, and should win early game every time. Dying FB to techies is unfortunate, but it really should not shut you down. It is easy for CM, unlike other supports - to acquire gold early and safely in the jungle to get sentries.

                      If your team is going to feed all the lanes and just lose everywhere, you probably can't save it. But you can at least win your lane - or if nothing else jungle enough to get defensive items so you won't add to the feeding frenzy. If everything is failing, just go back to the jungle, ward it to protect it, and farm blink/fstaff/ or glimmer cape as appropriate to the game so you can avoid deaths.

                      In those games where it looks impossible, the way to turn it around it to stay relevant. You must be able to do some dmg, get your skills off in a fight and escape. If you can't do that, then you can't fight now. Finish your defensive item so you will live and then try again. You may still lose the game anyway, but with practice you will learn how to turn difficult fights around and win games that looked lost. If you see an opportunity to hit a team with freezing field and have the items (like glimmer cape or bkb) so you won't be stopped/die doing it. CM can get a ton of work down even late game.

                      If you ever get to that point, a CM with blink, hex, refresher is more dangerous with those 3 items than a 6 slotted PA. So don't give up, and don't fight losing fights. Do what might win, even if it is unlikely. Set up fights where the enemy might screw up and feed. But don't do things like "solo defend t2 tower against push because its a tower and I pinged and tp and nub team didn't come". Just let the tower die - or let the feeder feed, and calmly frostbite that centaur so you can finish your fstaff.

                      One final point. If you are the only one supporting, announce that you are getting no more wards until you finish XX item. Someone else will do it - or your team will just have to play more defensively - or they will feed anyway and its hopeless. But getting no items won't win a game ever. At minimum you must either be able to evade an attack by (blink/fstaff/glimmer) or survive burst dmg and still cast. If you die without having used your skills you failed.

                      This comment was edited
                      DeliriumX

                        @Relentless agreed normally I would have retreated to jungle but because or bot lane was losing bat rotated and I didn't want to take his farm. Hardest part about that game was that meepo was getting almost no farm. Techies was playing very agressive with mines and when we did try to punish it the es saved him with fissure. Chase was out of the question because we didn't have vision on mines. But I think sometimes that's my biggest problem is just "afk" farming knowing that I need items to be relevant when my team is struggling.

                        Also I agree with the early build but at my MMR which is quite low if I go greedy on CM my team will freak. So I normally get points into aura hoping that it will help the other players and make their laning easier. Thank you for all of your input I really appreciate it.

                        Relentless

                          The lower your MMR the less helpful the aura is. At very high levels CM aura is amazing because good players can do a lot with the extra mana. But at very low MMR they will fail to use all of their spells well anyway so the aura is not very good. At sub-2k MMR I would just get the aura for helping CM to jungle faster, maybe even maxing both nukes with no aura would be best and stay in the lane. Controlling the lane, and especially getting kills is very important for a low MMR Crystal Maiden. If you get to higher MMR other people will be able to make plays on the aura.