^ I don't "believe it", I just proven it, and unless you can actually put arguments against it (which you didn't), it remains true and the only guy with Tunnel vision is you. You simply can't have 60% winrate without either abusing or increasing in MMR. It's impossible.
And if you stay at 5k MMR despite having 60% winrate or if you stay at 5k MMR with only 40% winrate doesn't change anything.
It's the exact same.
If your scenario is truly about 1 hero players, then yes, I'd probably choose Player Z (because he has higher MMR), but we don't actually have this scenario in the game, making it completely pointless. Out of those few OD players (iirc there are 2 or 3 in total), I am clearly one of the highest ranked ones. So I'd be easily in the top 10 legitimately.
Wait. You just proven it?
How many % of active players actually expose their public match data? Definitely not 100% :)
You are kinda clouded by this Dotabuff hero ranking system to think that you're actually the best and much better than the pros just because you've played thousands of games with OD.
No statistic display doesn't mean it's not happening. Pros do use anonymous accounts for training purpose.
Yes. Logically, you will choose Player Z. Why? Because he has higher MMR.
And 60% winrate is just an example. It could be 54, 52% winrate...lol
What I want to emphasize is that someone with better winrate ( stack or not, IDC ) and MMR than you will most likely look upon, regardless of how many thousands more matches you have.
In this case, I'd like to watch this player ( ranked no. 5 ) if I wanna learn OD.
Despite having less experience than you ( 2k games lesser ), he has better winrate in ranked, overall winrate and KDA.
`MPJ - Overview - DOTABUFF - Dota 2 Stats
I honestly believe that pro players with better game mechanics can easily climb beyond your bracket with OD exclusively.
Not to take away your dedication and experiences with OD. I know it's suck to have people putting you down.
However, you're giving them the opportunity with some of your delusional arguments.
Like i said before. The rank system is flawed and it's not possible to have a perfect one.
Just enjoy being in the top list and chill.
> Start with no healing as OD, which I guess is ok if you were going for fast bottle but you spent all your cash on a null + mantle
Do you even notice it? You just went full retard.
First of all, let's assume it was my idea to not buy regen at the start, then I would tell you that it is pretty good as I don't need that regen within the first 20 seconds of the game anyway and can just use the courier to bring it to me.
Unfortunately for you though, it wasn't my idea, it was the suggestion from my coach, yes, the guy that is Zenoth's friend and has 5700 MMR.
Of course I could now go on complain about other things such as your extreme bias against me claiming that I intentionally tried to make "wow, such skill" save, which already confirms that your brain is very limited and you're being extremely biased and subjective.
I could continue reading but it's really not worth my time especially since you believe you were actually good enough to judge it but in fact just have proven that you're too bad to judge it.
Go on, watch MPJ's games. I did that as well, since I am interested in improving (despite ALL of you completely neglecting this fact). I watched his game and found out that he played (slightly) worse than me.
Why do you even choose him, may I ask? You know his MMR? What's the point of having 60% winrate on 4k bracket games? He plays on freaking Australia region, are there even pros playing there?
Either way, I don't want to discredit MPJ since he is a cool guy. I would have absolutely no issue with being behind him on the ladder. But you're completely missing the point. There are other guys, like the Black, Qojqva or Poloson for example, those are on higher ranking, and my critic is SIMPLY UNCHANGED: These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT.
fun part is i outplayed razor all game and even bara incoming mid from the left always but then guess what.... SKY from FOG from the right and they kill me between tier 1 and 2. And not once but like 3 times and still i was winning :D fuck 4k noobs
Are you worth the toplist. After this game I can 100% say that you're 100% not. There is nothing I have seen in this game or the other two I have watched that have impressed me or where I have gone "this guy seems experienced". Mediocre plays on a mediocre hero. Sorry that's the way I see it.
Because you are extremely biased and only look at the bad things, you just cherry picked one of my worst games this year as well, so what gives. Even if I was 100-0-99 after 10 minute you would still claim I was bad. In addition to that I could easily disprove most of your statements as they were pretty bullshit.
fun part is i outplayed razor all game and even bara incoming mid from the left always but then guess what.... SKY from FOG from the right and they kill me between tier 1 and 2. And not once but like 3 times and still i was winning :D fuck 4k noobs
It's really funny when there is 4 people trying to gank you but kinda fail, they chase you to the T3, your team is still afk, then they kill you in your base and everyone calls you noob. Had that happen quite often already as well.
Can mods ban this autistic piece of crap? It's disgusting how delusional some people can be, not to mention that the dunning-kruger is strong in this one
Go on, watch MPJ's games. I did that as well, since I am interested in improving (despite ALL of you completely neglecting this fact). I watched his game and found out that he played (slightly) worse than me.
Why do you even choose him, may I ask? You know his MMR? What's the point of having 60% winrate on 4k bracket games? He plays on freaking Australia region, are there even pros playing there?
Either way, I don't want to discredit MPJ since he is a cool guy. I would have absolutely no issue with being behind him on the ladder. But you're completely missing the point. There are other guys, like the Black, Qojqva or Poloson for example, those are on higher ranking, and my critic is SIMPLY UNCHANGED: These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT.
Hence, the ranking system is FLAWED
Some players are up there because. . . .
. . . 5-man stack by spamming pub games?
. . . playing on "easier" server?
. . . awesome winrate and kda despite lower bracket?
. . . awesome winrate and kda despite only 30 games played ( consistency )?
. . . mass amount of games played despite mediocre winrate and kda?
. . . they are the Pros with superior Division?
You want a perfect system??
Maybe you should try to create one by yourself.
Well, I don't know MPJ's mmr by reading the ranking.
Both of you are in the same division Diamond 10.
Logically, I ought to pick him over you in the first impression due to better overall winrate ( and last 6months ) :)
^ Except as I already proved winrate doesn't matter as we are still winning the same amount of games. I mean, you can't have one guy with a 60% winrate and an other guy with a 50% winrate but then both getting from the same MMR A to MMR B. How is that possible? It isn't, unless you decide that the winrate and actual skill are completely unrelated to each other.
This is my argument in the first place and noone even tried to counter it so far. In your example from earlier, I would have chosen the 350 games Omni even if he had only 20% winrate. Why? Because he has 5400 MMR. So if he has 20% it means he came from what, 8000 MMR? So he is still better anyway.
^ Happens, I often change my builds when things are not working as I wish to, that might be making the range so big. Have been over 5k countless of times. It's quite difficult for me to play properly though when in half of my games I get trolled, and that has quite a negative effect on my learning experience.
"These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT."
I dont know why you think Black doesn't belong there... To simply put it, if I had to choose an OD from that list to help win the game, I would take Black.
Sure, you might have extensive practice with OD but does it translate to winning?
I watched his most recent game until 8:20 ingame time.
Positive mention: He is extremely good at last hitting
Negative mention: He doesn't dominate the lane (nor the runes as he is going Midas), he fails his block (not sure if intentionally), he starts with Tangoes for no reason (why wouldn't he just ferry them later using the courier if he feels like he needs them?), he takes AGES to buy items (hotkeys? Suggested item builds? Grid view?), and most importantly this scene:
No OD player EVER would Astral+left click a Clockwerk like this, the outcome is predetermined, he 100% will hook you, and guess what, he did, Black imprisoned himself and died. And yes, he saw that Clockwerk coming, he had freaking ages to react to it!! He was either completely wrongly estimating Astral Imprisonment cast range, or he has no clue how to play with OD against Clockwerk, but either way, this play was just absolutely horrible!
He went freaking 0-4-0 during laning phase, just getting ganked constantly despite having wards. Not wanna blame him, but as you can see, even if you're pro, it doesn't make you ungankable.
I can't comment on the (potential) mistakes you pointed out but the thing is everyone makes them. But I would bank on Black making less mistakes than you and more importantly, making the right moves to win the game. What I said is very general and don't have a lot of evidence to support it but the fact that Black gets paid to play the game and is a very good player, is likely enough for me to believe he would do well on OD.
Grom, not everyone makes them. That's untrue. Nobody who has experience to play against Clockwerk would make this kind of mistake. It's impossible, because I know from at least 100 games that this is not going to work. Same story with Sand King and Pudge. You just can't walk straight up to them and Astral Imprison them not expecting them to cast their stun and kill you.
Black died 4 times during laning Phase due to Clockwerk ganking him, that's his price for buying a midas. He would have died 1 or even 0 times if he went straight Force Staff or Blink Dagger instead. Question, was it really a smart choice to go for midas? Does its gold and xp gain actually even out those 4 deaths and potentionally missed kills? I highly doubt so.
duh... he always goes for midas... its like his trademark with OD.
And he did win! look at the level difference. He's so good with OD he can just give a massive advantage to the enemy team early game by going midas cause its gonna pay off for sure! Think like that and you'll get better at dota.
Smaug pls don't say not everyone makes mistakes, because i know for a fact 100% of Dota players, pro or not, will make mistakes because if you played everything perfectly then we'd all have 100% winrates with 0 deaths, when you die in dota it's because you made some kind of mistake
@aki, I haven't said anything like that. Please read properly. I said nobody experienced with OD would make that mistake. Just like no experienced dota player would stand there auto attacking creeps and missing any last hits. It's a clear deficit, not an "oops I accidentally made a" mistake. It's a clear lack of experience that causes him to die there.
By starting like this he still does way better than you regardless. Mad cuz bad. Mad cuz bad.
And tangoes instantly isnt bad because he can instantly trade hits and if needed he can survive lvl1 ganks and etc. And he died there because he underestimated the clock, that's just a bad decision made in pub environment, not because he's an inexperienced od. Once again you think some things are bad but they're only bad in your pov, which once again proves you are a simple-minded autistic downie not acknowledging that you're bad and that's why you don't improve. After so many games your lasthitting with that hero should be at least on par with black just because how much you should feel the base damage and etc. But nope, you're just plain bad dunning-kruger guy who wasted so much time. And you even try to make yourself feel better about that by denying the obvious facts that you're shit and you didn't get better and you can't get better because you reached your peak.
You're just like all those sub5k ta, ember, sf, sk and etc. players deep down the dunning-kruger trenches in your mind
"And he died there because he underestimated the clock, that's just a bad decision made in pub environment, not because he's an inexperienced od. "
This is clearly wrong. I mean yes, he underestimated Clock, but honestly what was he thinking? "Oh there is a clock coming to gank me, nah he wouldn't cast hit ulti on me, I can just walk straight up to him and banish him and he wouldn't do anything anyway" or what? It's just stupid. It's the same as walking straight towards a Pudge not expecting him to hook you.
"and you didn't get better and you can't get better because you reached your peak."
A very very dumb accusation, because I said EXACTLY the opposite of that. Just shows how extremely biased you are. You're just trying to talk shit about me all the time, you're claiming that being 5k MMR equals to being trash and you're whiteknighting Black simply because he is Black. You're repeating the same bullshit over and over again "omg ur bad" doesn't make me any worse. You call me an "autistic downie" which is a plain lie without even realizing it. You can call me all the bad words you want like you're a little whining crybaby that has to defend his mommy, it won't make your illogical and stupid statements any more useful.
But of course, when I make a mistake it's because I am noob, when he makes a mistake it's because it's not really a mistake. Don't you even notice how extremely biased you are?
I astral imprison enemy guy who gets hit by Last Word, of course biiiig disaster, Black does the same thing, ye it's fine he is pro he is better than you anyway.
And someone should not talk about Dunning Kruger if he doesn't even know his Attribution Error and Confirmation Bias.
@Benao if you watch the game, the only reason why he came back to the game was because he had an insanely loyal team that didn't let him fall even after he went 0-4-0, no pub game EVER I would have such a nice team. It's because he is a pro and plays under his real nick. It seems like it's also his stack friends but I am not sure about it (He says "peng you" in all-chat which means friend, no idea why though).
What do you think I am going to sit in a stomp and watch you farm mid while your team basically lays out the game for you, of course I am being biased that's how you fix stuff. You don't look at a house when buying and completely ignore the bad plumbing but just go "oh, well the painting looks nice". This is all stuff that you are weak on at a fundamental level and you're mindlessly churning game after game making the same mistakes over and over because you firmly believe that you're not a bad player.
I calibrated at 4.1 which IMO was undercalibrated but this was my own fault for stacking for a year or more with people of inferior skill (no offense to them as I like them all) from there I moved to about 4.3 and did maybe one solo game a week, recently I did a race to 5K and in about 2 weeks I went to 4900+ and lost out to the person I was racing with and ended at about 4.8 flat which is where I have roughly remained and will solo queue once or twice here and there.
When you're swinging MMR so massively like that then something is wrong, Benao swings cause he can't control his temper, Bogi swings cause he blames his team mates too often and misses mistakes, you swing cause you play a bad hero with weak mechanics yet still do so trying to prove you're good with it or good in general.
I didn't cherry pick anything I selected your last game and watched you make mistakes on a fundamental level things which I, as a non-mid player can instantly see. I coach people all the time, and watch games for analysis sake even from people way better than me simply because I have a good eye for spotting this stuff and in your case it wasn't hard.
You look at the end game where you claimed your team were fucktards yet you fail to place blame on the person that put a storm spirit 3-0 in 5 minutes with a midas which allowed him to stomp your team, that loss was entirely on you cause your mid play was weak, you refused to remain active throughout the game, and OD isn't that good due to having one nuke that only serves purpose vs non INT heroes and a disable which you were using at bad times or not using where you should have been using it to potentially save allies.
^ go ahead and watch Black's game, he makes lots of fundamental errors as well.
You're trying to say that I am the worst player in the world because I make mistakes that everyone else does. That's in general a pretty weak base on argumentation. And yes, the match was indeed cherry picked, you just randomly picked the last match without even knowing in which condition I was playing it (you didn't actually know whether it was me playing), so you made quite a lot of mistakes in your analysis (spectator bias). I agree with all the mistakes you found (well, not with all of them as some just aren't mistakes but just you being too bad to understand the purpose), but that doesn't mean that I am a terribad and someone like Black who does way more severe mistakes would be way better than me. You're just fooling yourself.
If you can tell me how losing mid because of 5 unfortunate conditions coming together is worse than losing mid because you don't know fundamental game mechanics such as the Cast Range of Astral Imprisonment or the fact that Hookshot comes with a ministun, then I give you a point.
"You're trying to say that I am the worst player in the world because I make mistakes that everyone else does."
No he isn't. He isn't trying to say that at all. You are being incredibly emo and exaggerating everything because you are insecure. Just because we all know you aren't a top 100 OD player doesn't mean we think you are the worst player in the world.
Not to mention Havoc is probably the most reasonable person here and is actually entertaining your insane nonsense.
You didn't even use the word fallacy properly, and I never made any mention of anything you did or didn't do. Do you not know what insecure means? Did someone teach you that it meant incompetent or prone to mistakes?
Do you even read what people are saying to you before you respond?
Keep digging the hole. Nothing you say is going to change or opinion of you at this point.
@Androgynous
Why would I not start doing what everyone else does in this thread? Do you honestly think I don't get angry after about 200 posts diffaming and spreading lies about me and insulting me excessively?
"By spreading insults and slander you are violating my civil rights. No human should ever agree to such criminal acting."
this was only like 50 posts in
you're probably angry because people are telling you the cold hard truth and you don't want to accept it. even on the first page you're getting defensive and making up excuses
How can someone play OD for 3500 straight games and not get bored to death kills me. I mean slark for 3500 straight games is not as bad but OD?. Oh well at least you are not the guy that played ogre magi for 4000+ games.
^ Except as I already proved winrate doesn't matter as we are still winning the same amount of games. I mean, you can't have one guy with a 60% winrate and an other guy with a 50% winrate but then both getting from the same MMR A to MMR B. How is that possible? It isn't, unless you decide that the winrate and actual skill are completely unrelated to each other.
This is my argument in the first place and noone even tried to counter it so far. In your example from earlier, I would have chosen the 350 games Omni even if he had only 20% winrate. Why? Because he has 5400 MMR. So if he has 20% it means he came from what, 8000 MMR? So he is still better anyway.
Don't you see it?
Most ( some are just trolls ) of the people here putting you down not because of your poor OD winrate. Tho it's kinda funny to have < 50% winrate despite having 3.5k games.
It's all started when you try to overestimate yourself and put down random pro 6k player like Black.
You have to understand these pros are 6k. They have much better game mechanics and overall game understanding than you.
No doubt you probably have better understanding with OD than most of the players.
However, when you straight out claiming you're better than Black and they don't deserve to be on the list, it's absurd. ( Flawed rank system, anyway )
Your OD's winrate is stagnant/dropping because you've reached the capped MMR by your standard.
With that being said, your game mechanics with OD is mid/high 4k at most. ( Inflated 5k mmr with phoenix )
Grind to at least 5.5k and maintain with OD if you want people to take you seriously and prove others wrong.
Not sure if you ever go safe lane or aggro trilane OD.
Maybe Mid is just not your thing.
"diffaming and spreading lies about me and insulting me excessively?"
Defamation - is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.
Nothing I have said was false, lies, or insulting you? Every time someone points out mistakes to you, you immediately go "well black isn't a good OD". This is not about anyone else but you, I have a 25% winrate with invoker, should I power through 3000+ games with him and get a sub 50% winrate then demand people give me credit for playing a hero I am not good with but just persevered with?
You have basically put yourself on this pedestal and expect people to do the same but like I said before your mistakes are obvious to everyone but yourself. I am doing this because I would like to see you improve and I know from having 6000+ games played that change can be hard unless you do something drastic. For me it was....
> Playing more lobbies and competitive games
> Playing heroes I was previously not comfortable playing
> For the most part stopped playing my go to heroes
You too, need to remove yourself from the comfort zone, then it really paints things clear where you succeed and where you fail. It becomes immediately apparent when you're playing heroes you aren't comfortable with what needs work as when you strip hero experience away all that's left is game mechanics, and that's whats most important hero.
I rarely excel on any hero in any game and maybe bar a couple I never really wow anyone, but my mechanics and game sense are really sound, and I will always be consistent in my games, and methodical about how I approach things and perhaps even play a little but too safe on occasions. You're trying to excel where your game mechanics are weak and that's where it's hurting you.
In order of important...
> Common Sense
> Game Mechanics
> Hero Experience & Skill
> Tricks & Flare
You've missed the top two and tried to master the last and least important IMO which is why you're going nowhere on that hero and will simply churn another 3K games with the same win rate and success you've always had. I have nothing against you but you need to wake up and listen to what people are telling you no matter how harsh or weepy it makes you feel because that's how you mature as a player and get better.
Here's a quick run down of what a lot of people said that you might want to try.
1. Try other mids, this will help you fix your mechanics because you're in unfamiliar territory
2. Maybe don't go mid, play an offlane or safelane OD, mix it up.
3. Start a new account and play 1-2 games a day/week on that just to experiment with crazy things.
4. Don't do ranked games, play a little bit of stacking AP or RD to chill out or pad out solo games.
There´s several importance when comparing players to heroes.
-How good you´re on the actual hero mechanic wise, etc.
-How good you´re executing the hero in the game of DotA2.
Being a good OD isn´t the same as being a good mid player.
You´re trying to compare yourself to an excellent player in Black, that´s just ridiculous.
Another ridiculous thing is that you´re sub 50% win rate with a hero you´ve played for 3k games.
I can run at a speed of 20KM/h for 2 hours, however statistics says I can only run for 20minutes.
Whatever dude, you have an interesting personality, thats for sure.
@Smaug
^ I don't "believe it", I just proven it, and unless you can actually put arguments against it (which you didn't), it remains true and the only guy with Tunnel vision is you. You simply can't have 60% winrate without either abusing or increasing in MMR. It's impossible.
And if you stay at 5k MMR despite having 60% winrate or if you stay at 5k MMR with only 40% winrate doesn't change anything.
It's the exact same.
If your scenario is truly about 1 hero players, then yes, I'd probably choose Player Z (because he has higher MMR), but we don't actually have this scenario in the game, making it completely pointless. Out of those few OD players (iirc there are 2 or 3 in total), I am clearly one of the highest ranked ones. So I'd be easily in the top 10 legitimately.
Wait. You just proven it?
How many % of active players actually expose their public match data? Definitely not 100% :)
You are kinda clouded by this Dotabuff hero ranking system to think that you're actually the best and much better than the pros just because you've played thousands of games with OD.
No statistic display doesn't mean it's not happening. Pros do use anonymous accounts for training purpose.
Yes. Logically, you will choose Player Z. Why? Because he has higher MMR.
And 60% winrate is just an example. It could be 54, 52% winrate...lol
What I want to emphasize is that someone with better winrate ( stack or not, IDC ) and MMR than you will most likely look upon, regardless of how many thousands more matches you have.
In this case, I'd like to watch this player ( ranked no. 5 ) if I wanna learn OD.
Despite having less experience than you ( 2k games lesser ), he has better winrate in ranked, overall winrate and KDA.
`MPJ - Overview - DOTABUFF - Dota 2 Stats
I honestly believe that pro players with better game mechanics can easily climb beyond your bracket with OD exclusively.
Not to take away your dedication and experiences with OD. I know it's suck to have people putting you down.
However, you're giving them the opportunity with some of your delusional arguments.
Like i said before. The rank system is flawed and it's not possible to have a perfect one.
Just enjoy being in the top list and chill.
PS: I personally spam Undying.
Closing to 5k ( both Solo and Party ) Calibrated @ 3.9k.
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/139892574/scenarios?date=6month&hero=undying&lobby_type=ranked_matchmaking&game_mode=&duration=&metric=all
last 6 mths
324 games
60.80%
It's "natural". I'm not tunnel vision.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1019513305 didnt go that bad
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1019579976 if only they hit their skill OR dewarded OR didnt feed OR brood actually did anything i wouldve won it :'(
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1019637856
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1019778300 SRSLY FUCKING TRASH I THINK IM GONNA GO MIDAS EVERY GAME NOW
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1019816182 got 16 games in lp so gg with the 10 od games
> Start with no healing as OD, which I guess is ok if you were going for fast bottle but you spent all your cash on a null + mantle
Do you even notice it? You just went full retard.
First of all, let's assume it was my idea to not buy regen at the start, then I would tell you that it is pretty good as I don't need that regen within the first 20 seconds of the game anyway and can just use the courier to bring it to me.
Unfortunately for you though, it wasn't my idea, it was the suggestion from my coach, yes, the guy that is Zenoth's friend and has 5700 MMR.
Of course I could now go on complain about other things such as your extreme bias against me claiming that I intentionally tried to make "wow, such skill" save, which already confirms that your brain is very limited and you're being extremely biased and subjective.
I could continue reading but it's really not worth my time especially since you believe you were actually good enough to judge it but in fact just have proven that you're too bad to judge it.
holy shit
the undying guy stats are amazing
@NextStep
Go on, watch MPJ's games. I did that as well, since I am interested in improving (despite ALL of you completely neglecting this fact). I watched his game and found out that he played (slightly) worse than me.
Why do you even choose him, may I ask? You know his MMR? What's the point of having 60% winrate on 4k bracket games? He plays on freaking Australia region, are there even pros playing there?
Either way, I don't want to discredit MPJ since he is a cool guy. I would have absolutely no issue with being behind him on the ladder. But you're completely missing the point. There are other guys, like the Black, Qojqva or Poloson for example, those are on higher ranking, and my critic is SIMPLY UNCHANGED: These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT.
Dude if you need a coach hit up Chris he is da baws
undying offlane is just too good. even better with dual offlane undying that shit rapes trilanes
btw you should have gone a different item/skill build in your last OD game Benao.
doesnt matter, game over always 4 behind tower cause the fucktards wouldnt deward, didnt carry tp, brood didnt push etc
yea that sounds familiar.
fun part is i outplayed razor all game and even bara incoming mid from the left always but then guess what.... SKY from FOG from the right and they kill me between tier 1 and 2. And not once but like 3 times and still i was winning :D fuck 4k noobs
Are you worth the toplist. After this game I can 100% say that you're 100% not. There is nothing I have seen in this game or the other two I have watched that have impressed me or where I have gone "this guy seems experienced". Mediocre plays on a mediocre hero. Sorry that's the way I see it.
Because you are extremely biased and only look at the bad things, you just cherry picked one of my worst games this year as well, so what gives. Even if I was 100-0-99 after 10 minute you would still claim I was bad. In addition to that I could easily disprove most of your statements as they were pretty bullshit.
fun part is i outplayed razor all game and even bara incoming mid from the left always but then guess what.... SKY from FOG from the right and they kill me between tier 1 and 2. And not once but like 3 times and still i was winning :D fuck 4k noobs
It's really funny when there is 4 people trying to gank you but kinda fail, they chase you to the T3, your team is still afk, then they kill you in your base and everyone calls you noob. Had that happen quite often already as well.
Can mods ban this autistic piece of crap? It's disgusting how delusional some people can be, not to mention that the dunning-kruger is strong in this one
emptyjar laying down the law
@Smaug
Go on, watch MPJ's games. I did that as well, since I am interested in improving (despite ALL of you completely neglecting this fact). I watched his game and found out that he played (slightly) worse than me.
Why do you even choose him, may I ask? You know his MMR? What's the point of having 60% winrate on 4k bracket games? He plays on freaking Australia region, are there even pros playing there?
Either way, I don't want to discredit MPJ since he is a cool guy. I would have absolutely no issue with being behind him on the ladder. But you're completely missing the point. There are other guys, like the Black, Qojqva or Poloson for example, those are on higher ranking, and my critic is SIMPLY UNCHANGED: These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT.
Hence, the ranking system is FLAWED
Some players are up there because. . . .
. . . 5-man stack by spamming pub games?
. . . playing on "easier" server?
. . . awesome winrate and kda despite lower bracket?
. . . awesome winrate and kda despite only 30 games played ( consistency )?
. . . mass amount of games played despite mediocre winrate and kda?
. . . they are the Pros with superior Division?
You want a perfect system??
Maybe you should try to create one by yourself.
Well, I don't know MPJ's mmr by reading the ranking.
Both of you are in the same division Diamond 10.
Logically, I ought to pick him over you in the first impression due to better overall winrate ( and last 6months ) :)
^ Except as I already proved winrate doesn't matter as we are still winning the same amount of games. I mean, you can't have one guy with a 60% winrate and an other guy with a 50% winrate but then both getting from the same MMR A to MMR B. How is that possible? It isn't, unless you decide that the winrate and actual skill are completely unrelated to each other.
This is my argument in the first place and noone even tried to counter it so far. In your example from earlier, I would have chosen the 350 games Omni even if he had only 20% winrate. Why? Because he has 5400 MMR. So if he has 20% it means he came from what, 8000 MMR? So he is still better anyway.
Well what is your MMR Smaug?
Ranging from 4300 to 5300, currently at 4825 after a small unfortunate streak of losses.
that's quite a big range, mine is around 300 lol
^ Happens, I often change my builds when things are not working as I wish to, that might be making the range so big. Have been over 5k countless of times. It's quite difficult for me to play properly though when in half of my games I get trolled, and that has quite a negative effect on my learning experience.
hello waves))
"These people don't belong there. Yes, MPJ belongs there, Black does NOT."
I dont know why you think Black doesn't belong there... To simply put it, if I had to choose an OD from that list to help win the game, I would take Black.
Sure, you might have extensive practice with OD but does it translate to winning?
So, let's talk about Black:
I watched his most recent game until 8:20 ingame time.
Positive mention: He is extremely good at last hitting
Negative mention: He doesn't dominate the lane (nor the runes as he is going Midas), he fails his block (not sure if intentionally), he starts with Tangoes for no reason (why wouldn't he just ferry them later using the courier if he feels like he needs them?), he takes AGES to buy items (hotkeys? Suggested item builds? Grid view?), and most importantly this scene:
[url="http://i.imgur.com/syTJBwS.png"][img]http://i.imgur.com/syTJBwSl.png[/img][/url]
No OD player EVER would Astral+left click a Clockwerk like this, the outcome is predetermined, he 100% will hook you, and guess what, he did, Black imprisoned himself and died. And yes, he saw that Clockwerk coming, he had freaking ages to react to it!! He was either completely wrongly estimating Astral Imprisonment cast range, or he has no clue how to play with OD against Clockwerk, but either way, this play was just absolutely horrible!
post the game. And of the 5 games i started all of them with a set of tangos and used and avg of 2.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1003181171
He went freaking 0-4-0 during laning phase, just getting ganked constantly despite having wards. Not wanna blame him, but as you can see, even if you're pro, it doesn't make you ungankable.
I can't comment on the (potential) mistakes you pointed out but the thing is everyone makes them. But I would bank on Black making less mistakes than you and more importantly, making the right moves to win the game. What I said is very general and don't have a lot of evidence to support it but the fact that Black gets paid to play the game and is a very good player, is likely enough for me to believe he would do well on OD.
Grom, not everyone makes them. That's untrue. Nobody who has experience to play against Clockwerk would make this kind of mistake. It's impossible, because I know from at least 100 games that this is not going to work. Same story with Sand King and Pudge. You just can't walk straight up to them and Astral Imprison them not expecting them to cast their stun and kill you.
Black died 4 times during laning Phase due to Clockwerk ganking him, that's his price for buying a midas. He would have died 1 or even 0 times if he went straight Force Staff or Blink Dagger instead. Question, was it really a smart choice to go for midas? Does its gold and xp gain actually even out those 4 deaths and potentionally missed kills? I highly doubt so.
duh... he always goes for midas... its like his trademark with OD.
And he did win! look at the level difference. He's so good with OD he can just give a massive advantage to the enemy team early game by going midas cause its gonna pay off for sure! Think like that and you'll get better at dota.
Smaug pls don't say not everyone makes mistakes, because i know for a fact 100% of Dota players, pro or not, will make mistakes because if you played everything perfectly then we'd all have 100% winrates with 0 deaths, when you die in dota it's because you made some kind of mistake
@aki, I haven't said anything like that. Please read properly. I said nobody experienced with OD would make that mistake. Just like no experienced dota player would stand there auto attacking creeps and missing any last hits. It's a clear deficit, not an "oops I accidentally made a" mistake. It's a clear lack of experience that causes him to die there.
By starting like this he still does way better than you regardless. Mad cuz bad. Mad cuz bad.
And tangoes instantly isnt bad because he can instantly trade hits and if needed he can survive lvl1 ganks and etc. And he died there because he underestimated the clock, that's just a bad decision made in pub environment, not because he's an inexperienced od. Once again you think some things are bad but they're only bad in your pov, which once again proves you are a simple-minded autistic downie not acknowledging that you're bad and that's why you don't improve. After so many games your lasthitting with that hero should be at least on par with black just because how much you should feel the base damage and etc. But nope, you're just plain bad dunning-kruger guy who wasted so much time. And you even try to make yourself feel better about that by denying the obvious facts that you're shit and you didn't get better and you can't get better because you reached your peak.
You're just like all those sub5k ta, ember, sf, sk and etc. players deep down the dunning-kruger trenches in your mind
"And he died there because he underestimated the clock, that's just a bad decision made in pub environment, not because he's an inexperienced od. "
This is clearly wrong. I mean yes, he underestimated Clock, but honestly what was he thinking? "Oh there is a clock coming to gank me, nah he wouldn't cast hit ulti on me, I can just walk straight up to him and banish him and he wouldn't do anything anyway" or what? It's just stupid. It's the same as walking straight towards a Pudge not expecting him to hook you.
"and you didn't get better and you can't get better because you reached your peak."
A very very dumb accusation, because I said EXACTLY the opposite of that. Just shows how extremely biased you are. You're just trying to talk shit about me all the time, you're claiming that being 5k MMR equals to being trash and you're whiteknighting Black simply because he is Black. You're repeating the same bullshit over and over again "omg ur bad" doesn't make me any worse. You call me an "autistic downie" which is a plain lie without even realizing it. You can call me all the bad words you want like you're a little whining crybaby that has to defend his mommy, it won't make your illogical and stupid statements any more useful.
But of course, when I make a mistake it's because I am noob, when he makes a mistake it's because it's not really a mistake. Don't you even notice how extremely biased you are?
I astral imprison enemy guy who gets hit by Last Word, of course biiiig disaster, Black does the same thing, ye it's fine he is pro he is better than you anyway.
And someone should not talk about Dunning Kruger if he doesn't even know his Attribution Error and Confirmation Bias.
@Benao if you watch the game, the only reason why he came back to the game was because he had an insanely loyal team that didn't let him fall even after he went 0-4-0, no pub game EVER I would have such a nice team. It's because he is a pro and plays under his real nick. It seems like it's also his stack friends but I am not sure about it (He says "peng you" in all-chat which means friend, no idea why though).
What do you think I am going to sit in a stomp and watch you farm mid while your team basically lays out the game for you, of course I am being biased that's how you fix stuff. You don't look at a house when buying and completely ignore the bad plumbing but just go "oh, well the painting looks nice". This is all stuff that you are weak on at a fundamental level and you're mindlessly churning game after game making the same mistakes over and over because you firmly believe that you're not a bad player.
I calibrated at 4.1 which IMO was undercalibrated but this was my own fault for stacking for a year or more with people of inferior skill (no offense to them as I like them all) from there I moved to about 4.3 and did maybe one solo game a week, recently I did a race to 5K and in about 2 weeks I went to 4900+ and lost out to the person I was racing with and ended at about 4.8 flat which is where I have roughly remained and will solo queue once or twice here and there.
When you're swinging MMR so massively like that then something is wrong, Benao swings cause he can't control his temper, Bogi swings cause he blames his team mates too often and misses mistakes, you swing cause you play a bad hero with weak mechanics yet still do so trying to prove you're good with it or good in general.
I didn't cherry pick anything I selected your last game and watched you make mistakes on a fundamental level things which I, as a non-mid player can instantly see. I coach people all the time, and watch games for analysis sake even from people way better than me simply because I have a good eye for spotting this stuff and in your case it wasn't hard.
You look at the end game where you claimed your team were fucktards yet you fail to place blame on the person that put a storm spirit 3-0 in 5 minutes with a midas which allowed him to stomp your team, that loss was entirely on you cause your mid play was weak, you refused to remain active throughout the game, and OD isn't that good due to having one nuke that only serves purpose vs non INT heroes and a disable which you were using at bad times or not using where you should have been using it to potentially save allies.
^ go ahead and watch Black's game, he makes lots of fundamental errors as well.
You're trying to say that I am the worst player in the world because I make mistakes that everyone else does. That's in general a pretty weak base on argumentation. And yes, the match was indeed cherry picked, you just randomly picked the last match without even knowing in which condition I was playing it (you didn't actually know whether it was me playing), so you made quite a lot of mistakes in your analysis (spectator bias). I agree with all the mistakes you found (well, not with all of them as some just aren't mistakes but just you being too bad to understand the purpose), but that doesn't mean that I am a terribad and someone like Black who does way more severe mistakes would be way better than me. You're just fooling yourself.
If you can tell me how losing mid because of 5 unfortunate conditions coming together is worse than losing mid because you don't know fundamental game mechanics such as the Cast Range of Astral Imprisonment or the fact that Hookshot comes with a ministun, then I give you a point.
"You're trying to say that I am the worst player in the world because I make mistakes that everyone else does."
No he isn't. He isn't trying to say that at all. You are being incredibly emo and exaggerating everything because you are insecure. Just because we all know you aren't a top 100 OD player doesn't mean we think you are the worst player in the world.
Not to mention Havoc is probably the most reasonable person here and is actually entertaining your insane nonsense.
Just stop.
"No he isn't. He isn't trying to say that at all. You are being incredibly emo and exaggerating everything because you are insecure."
"because you're insecure"
In other words, you're using fallacies to argue. You don't know why I am doing what I am doing. Claiming you would know means that you are stupid.
Just stop.
You didn't even use the word fallacy properly, and I never made any mention of anything you did or didn't do. Do you not know what insecure means? Did someone teach you that it meant incompetent or prone to mistakes?
Do you even read what people are saying to you before you respond?
Keep digging the hole. Nothing you say is going to change or opinion of you at this point.
*sigh* keep ignoring my arguments and just bashing on my person. I won't respond to you dumbtrolls any longer.
"I never made any mention of anything you did or didn't do. "
this is a plain lie btw, you said I was "exaggerating everything", so stop being a stubborn idiot.
so... why are you being emo and exaggerating havocs points then?
@Androgynous
Why would I not start doing what everyone else does in this thread? Do you honestly think I don't get angry after about 200 posts diffaming and spreading lies about me and insulting me excessively?
"By spreading insults and slander you are violating my civil rights. No human should ever agree to such criminal acting."
this was only like 50 posts in
you're probably angry because people are telling you the cold hard truth and you don't want to accept it. even on the first page you're getting defensive and making up excuses
How can someone play OD for 3500 straight games and not get bored to death kills me. I mean slark for 3500 straight games is not as bad but OD?. Oh well at least you are not the guy that played ogre magi for 4000+ games.
Can someone refer him to a doctor lmao? How can u justify being good as OD by stomping storm? Far sighted indeed rofl get stomped at that bracket
@Smaug
^ Except as I already proved winrate doesn't matter as we are still winning the same amount of games. I mean, you can't have one guy with a 60% winrate and an other guy with a 50% winrate but then both getting from the same MMR A to MMR B. How is that possible? It isn't, unless you decide that the winrate and actual skill are completely unrelated to each other.
This is my argument in the first place and noone even tried to counter it so far. In your example from earlier, I would have chosen the 350 games Omni even if he had only 20% winrate. Why? Because he has 5400 MMR. So if he has 20% it means he came from what, 8000 MMR? So he is still better anyway.
Don't you see it?
Most ( some are just trolls ) of the people here putting you down not because of your poor OD winrate. Tho it's kinda funny to have < 50% winrate despite having 3.5k games.
It's all started when you try to overestimate yourself and put down random pro 6k player like Black.
You have to understand these pros are 6k. They have much better game mechanics and overall game understanding than you.
No doubt you probably have better understanding with OD than most of the players.
However, when you straight out claiming you're better than Black and they don't deserve to be on the list, it's absurd. ( Flawed rank system, anyway )
Your OD's winrate is stagnant/dropping because you've reached the capped MMR by your standard.
With that being said, your game mechanics with OD is mid/high 4k at most. ( Inflated 5k mmr with phoenix )
Grind to at least 5.5k and maintain with OD if you want people to take you seriously and prove others wrong.
Not sure if you ever go safe lane or aggro trilane OD.
Maybe Mid is just not your thing.
"diffaming and spreading lies about me and insulting me excessively?"
Defamation - is the communication of a false statement that harms the reputation of an individual person, business, product, group, government, religion, or nation.
Nothing I have said was false, lies, or insulting you? Every time someone points out mistakes to you, you immediately go "well black isn't a good OD". This is not about anyone else but you, I have a 25% winrate with invoker, should I power through 3000+ games with him and get a sub 50% winrate then demand people give me credit for playing a hero I am not good with but just persevered with?
You have basically put yourself on this pedestal and expect people to do the same but like I said before your mistakes are obvious to everyone but yourself. I am doing this because I would like to see you improve and I know from having 6000+ games played that change can be hard unless you do something drastic. For me it was....
> Playing more lobbies and competitive games
> Playing heroes I was previously not comfortable playing
> For the most part stopped playing my go to heroes
You too, need to remove yourself from the comfort zone, then it really paints things clear where you succeed and where you fail. It becomes immediately apparent when you're playing heroes you aren't comfortable with what needs work as when you strip hero experience away all that's left is game mechanics, and that's whats most important hero.
I rarely excel on any hero in any game and maybe bar a couple I never really wow anyone, but my mechanics and game sense are really sound, and I will always be consistent in my games, and methodical about how I approach things and perhaps even play a little but too safe on occasions. You're trying to excel where your game mechanics are weak and that's where it's hurting you.
In order of important...
> Common Sense
> Game Mechanics
> Hero Experience & Skill
> Tricks & Flare
You've missed the top two and tried to master the last and least important IMO which is why you're going nowhere on that hero and will simply churn another 3K games with the same win rate and success you've always had. I have nothing against you but you need to wake up and listen to what people are telling you no matter how harsh or weepy it makes you feel because that's how you mature as a player and get better.
Here's a quick run down of what a lot of people said that you might want to try.
1. Try other mids, this will help you fix your mechanics because you're in unfamiliar territory
2. Maybe don't go mid, play an offlane or safelane OD, mix it up.
3. Start a new account and play 1-2 games a day/week on that just to experiment with crazy things.
4. Don't do ranked games, play a little bit of stacking AP or RD to chill out or pad out solo games.
Who's this Smaug guy anyway
There´s several importance when comparing players to heroes.
-How good you´re on the actual hero mechanic wise, etc.
-How good you´re executing the hero in the game of DotA2.
Being a good OD isn´t the same as being a good mid player.
You´re trying to compare yourself to an excellent player in Black, that´s just ridiculous.
Another ridiculous thing is that you´re sub 50% win rate with a hero you´ve played for 3k games.
I can run at a speed of 20KM/h for 2 hours, however statistics says I can only run for 20minutes.
Whatever dude, you have an interesting personality, thats for sure.