General DiscussionLeaving Mek unfinished for Necro?

well if u get shiva in like 3 minutes.
otherwise it would be fairly retarded.

i rather not get the headress if u intend to do it this way.
imo its fairly insignificant.
actually idk im just thinking in the context of mid necro w/e

How do you not have mana to use mek? I never have this issue and I go power treads on necro. I don't get it. If you're having serious issues try not getting any points in heartstopper early, go for a 3/0/2/1 build at 6 and then at 7 you can even dump one more into sadist before maxing pulse if you want. Make sure you get last hits on creeps and you will regen tons of mana. Don't spam death pulse to farm either, hit a wave once and then right click the rest down to preserve mana.

Level 7 Necro with Mek and PTs has 650 mana. 225 for Mek, 175 for Scythe and 185 for each level 4 death pulse. So two Death Pulses and a Mek = 595 mana. Unless I start the team fight with full mana and get some last hits from the two death pulses or an auto-attack, I don't have enough for the Scythe.

I don't mean I have a problem whilst laning - just in a team fight, after two death pulses I have to decide between a mek and a scythe quite a lot.

PS I normally go 4-1-1-1

You need more in sadist so you start those fights with your mana topped off and using your ult refunds all the mana you spent. Try to seek out last hits just to regen between fights. And I feel two death pulses in a fight should be enough. Team fights are usually decided before 15 seconds which is when you would get the third off if you spammed it rank 4. In 15 seconds usually 1 or 2 people are dead or close to it. But yeah, you need more points in sadist, you need at least level 2, then only use scythe if you know the target will die. You will always get credit for the kill when you scythe no matter who actually kills them and level 2 sadist will regen you 240 mana off a hero kill which is more than the ult costs. I wouldn't go 4/1/1/1, if you really want that point in heatstopper go 3/1/2/1 or even 2/1/3/1. If you're using death pulse mainly to tank and heal your team it's only 20 more healing per level, so 2/1/3/1 is fine. If you need to deal damage then you want it higher obviously.

If you manage to net a kill with scythe, or a kill in general, then you'll get a lot of mana back.

Putting more points into Sadist before Pulse seems quite unusual to be honest. And personally I don't really use Pulse to farm until it is level 4 when it is one aa to the ranged, 2-3 to an untargeted melee creep then a pulse for 3LH. before then death pulse seems a bit pointless. I tried skipping my ulti but that works out worse as you don't get the regen from securing kills...

Anyway, I guess my biggest fault is not regening my mana enough between fights. Suspect I'm entering fights with just 3/4s mana so fairly useless after a pulse...

Really don't think delaying level 4 Pulse is wise in most situations though.

Try it for yourself, I doubt you'll notice the dmg difference between level 3 pulse and level 4 that much but you will notice the regen on sadist. Level 1 just can't cut it. And if you go power treads that extra attack speed is awesome, quicker last hits, more regen. You can somewhat jungle with treads at lvl 6.

Isn't the build 2/1/2/1 then onto 2/1/4/1? I thought you were supposed to max sadist first because you won't be able to spam pulse if you max it first?

"Level 7 Necro with Mek and PTs has 650 mana. 225 for Mek, 175 for Scythe and 185 for each level 4 death pulse. So two Death Pulses and a Mek = 595 mana. Unless I start the team fight with full mana and get some last hits from the two death pulses or an auto-attack, I don't have enough for the Scythe."

while you are short on mana you're not that short on mana. try either switching to mana boots, or building a nul + magic wand before you finish your mek. Shiva's is good at any point in the game, but mek far stronger if you make it early. If you want to rush shiva's instead you would be better off leaving the mek to some one else on your team who will complete it faster.

don't do something stupide like not maxing death pulse ASAP, maybe you could wait on the 4th point till 8, but pulse is really all necro has going for him early game.

when i play necro i just swallow my pride and admit that im noob and go arcane boots. seriously, everything's just so much easier if you get arcane boots on him, even if it's suboptimal

5 nulls + mek = izi heals

What?
How is it possible to run out of mana with necro, you literally don't need a single mana regen item on him if you just have bottle.

That's retarded as fuck. Headress + Buckler is 10x worse in terms of impact compared to the full mek. You shouldn't have mana issues, how often do you fight 5v5 10 minutes into the game.
Skipping mek means your team is overall weaker, has less pushing potential and you're easier to get picked off. You will also be useless for good 5-10 minutes until you get your shivas and even then I think a mek would still have more impact than the shivas. Magical damage is really strong early to mid game so a burst heal is much better than armor/slow.

You should only get arcanes on Necro if you plan to make a bloodstone honestly. Intelligence treads give you comparable mana pool and additional lasthitting damage. Phase is okay sometimes too.
You only have two spells and a mek so budget your mana.

theres no point to maxing pulse - on paper its super strong, but in reality, the game at levels 7-10 isnt all about grouping up and fighting with this hero. the hero should be able to sustain himself quite well in the jungle and rotating through lanes to farm, meaning you generally want to be 2-1-2 at level 5, situationally get scythe (say if you're pushing or theres a guaranteed fight) otherwise you want to just max q and e interchangeably.

also bottles pretty useless on him; its only good in the first ~7-8 minutes, after that sadist is all the sustain you need. i guess you could give it to a support after that but realistically just let a support or offlaner or someone buy it. then again the heros a shitty mid anyway and has little to no rune control (hes such a fat fuck and pulse cant control early on)

In case anyone is interested I watched a couple of replays and basically my problem is just that I use pulse to farm levels 7-10ish before I've got many points in sadist so wasting my mana.

Life gets a lot better if I actually keep 600 mana in reserve.

Still not convinced maxing pulse first is a bad idea. Is kind of meh at lower levels

max q = less pulses that heal more
max e = more pulses that heal less, but also less mana efficient, and less potent wave clear + farming speed

as long as you're not spamming q on every wave with rank 1 sadist you'll be fine with maxing q first. but you could maybe try 2 into sadist pre 6 (for 2-1-2) because the regen doubles, from 6 hp + 12 mana per last hit, to 12 hp + 24 mana per last hit, which means you still have max pulse at 8

get a soul ring

@andro thats a bit misleading if you take into account that maxing death pulse first means you have way less overall sustain because the manacost goes up and you cant effectively break even on mana until level 4 sadist (i think its 3 or 4 creeps gets u ur mana back with max sadist)

Ring of basilius too. Quite good.