General DiscussionQoP vs BS solo mid.

You started with zero items except a set of wards. Then you tried to 'harass' bs by standing melee range with him and 4 of his creeps and got rekt like an idiot.
Sorry bro you are 2k mmr scum and your opinion is invalid.

QoP has similar base dmg, GREAT anti-melee skill( the dagger deals bullshit dmg), great nuke and rune controling ability in form of blink. You should neve lose against a BS.

I'm sorry but if you really can't win your lane with QoP then you are terrible. Get better at denying and try again.

Is that so... it feels like I wouldn't have any trouble outlaning qop with bs tbh.

try something different next time =)

couple of time where i played bs vs qop it was really favored to qop.

if you miss a last hit you are fucked up big time, and even then you lose a ton of hp.

if qop makes mistake, and doesnt do much till 6 then you are good.

I gave reasoning and all I get was toxicity.

@Kabal, yeah what about any point afterwards? I regened up and focus'd on harassing. Didn't do much

@Sam, I lol'd. Yes, deny against bs with qb. Now assuming 2 people are equally skilled which do you think gets the last hits, the one with 50 base dmg or 70?

And who do you think would get more last hits, the one with melee range or 500 range? Base damage doesn't mean shit if you can aggro creeps well and harass him efficiently.

The thing is QoP has a base damage of like what, 53-54??

Throw that against a BS with a stout who regens his hp easily. Besides, are you seriously telling me you want to outlast hit a BS, like the only fucking way to win a BS is to zone him out to prevent him from outsustaining you.

What I'm saying is, it feels to me that QoP can't do that.

Idk, I thought I explained it well. I don't see how QoP wins the lane.

QoP can own Blood seeker at lane phase, but that is for the laning phase only, shadow strike him and give 2 hits, that's almost half his hp, and keep doing this, with the recent change of the cd of the shadow strike, u can spam it more often.

Later on he just crushes u if u don't play extremely safe, really extremely, or if he is a bad player and would engage badly into u.

qop vs bs isnt even a match up, bs will get raped to the point of no tmr, no contest whatsoever, wtf r u smoking baddie

just challenge me on the other thread.

ezy rares.

i'll accept them all.

You said yourself that you are a 2k MMR trash, why would anyone waste their time with you?

Honestly you shouldn't lose with QoP. With 53 base damage, plus you should start with some pulled tangos + salve + null talisman, which would net you 61 damage. 61 damage is more than enough for last hitting, however you should win your lane before blood starts to get stronger and i see this often in pubs, people don't know how to harass.

They will go next to the creeps, and start attacking and lose more health to creep attacks than they do attacking. Not only that, because the creeps attacked you and not the other lane creeps, your lane advances. Creep aggro works the way tower works as well, clicking to deny an ally creep removes aggro from you. And unless it's a 1v1 mid only game, you shouldn't ever max shadow strike first, because you lose the whole point of your hero mid-game.

More importantly, deny and last hit everything, and throw hits on him in between. And if he is foolish enough to drop below 50% health, blink behind him scream and right-click.

Actually scratch that, if you ARE losing your lane, go help other lanes. It's the best way to get out of a bad situation. Do this when facing strong laning heroes like viper. You should also have complete rune control because of blink and AOE damage.

actually any good player would win as bs vs qop, the only way to lose is to get zoned from lvl 1, which means u have to be very bad.
a bs will always win lane control vs a qop, sam is complete bullshit, no offense.

^Correction : Any slightly decent player will win win as QoP vs BS.

Meh, nobody picks QoP these days anyway.

I think it isn't as in the favour of QoP as you put it still... down to overall lane mechanical skill, I suppose?

qop wins with runes and better blocks

if bloodseeker does decent bloock and farms pms fast enuff he wins lane cuz qop can't do shit

@zxc,
That actually made me laugh, gd try I should say.
QoP can beat the shit out of BS, he requires last hits to be able to not get zoned out, and with QoP Shadow Strike, she can zone him easily.
Case closed, QoP beats up BS.

@4k
BS with a better block will most likely win the lane. In this situation QoP would be forced to rely on runes to gain back the advantage.

If the block is neutral it depends if QoP has a highground ward.

If the block is in favour of QoP it's no contest.

Well, from that point of view.
Everything depends on the skill lvl of both the players.
If Bs is better, he would manage to win the lane some way or another.

Ah come on. She shouldn't beat him so hard, but damn she shouldn't fucking get crushed like this guy was. Then again, why am I expecting him to win mid when he has only 3 denies and goes for Drums on QoP.

The drums was bought when they were fountain farming. At that point I don't think any item mattered. But enough, I don't really wanna talk since you clearly don't intend to discuss anything.

Regardless, I'm glad some people have pointed out how a BS might win the QoP.

And that changes the fact that you got crushed and manhandled and now instead of blaming yourself for that you are looking for "fake" excuses that will make you feel better.

Sam is right. Absolutely right about everything he's said about me so far.

Now create a separate thread if you want to continue flaming me so people who wants to discuss and elaborate which hero wins which may do so.

BS is not THAT good against range, against most melee heroes he does win but against viper QoP and even SM i am not sure if he wins.

Viper played right wins pretty much everything in my opinion.

What the heck is SM?

Skywrath Mage?

Viper played right gets crushed by Razor played right.

Well Dorkly, in TI3 Yamateh's Bloodseeker absolutely crushed Fata's Puck mid. Crushed as in Yamateh got 3-4 creeps for every 1 creep that Fata's Puck got. Don't forget at that point that Puck was Fata's signature hero. That was the old BS, before all the current buffs (which don't really affect his laning anyway).

Flaming? Because telling the truth is flaming now. Whatever, I don't even know why am I wasting my time. Also SM is Skywrath Mage aka SWM.

I see how bs can beat puck, i dont know maybe i was just playing bad when i lost my lane as bloodseeker against Skywrath Mage, that Q harass was too much for me :/

I guess it depends of how good is the bloodseeker player at last hitting

btw do you guys think bloodseeker is going to be a top pick or ban in the next competitive games ? and zeus ? C9 is playing support zeus right now i think.

if bs randomed qop have no chances

can't be blank

tbh its easy to lose to a bs with qop. maintaining pressure and constantly throwing shadow strikes is key

Interesting. So sam thinks that q op beats bs in a hands of equally skilled players whereas vakiss thinks it's situational. I know you're both good players. Care to elaborate why u think that way?

Because Sam most likely has not gone against BS as QoP before. I tried it out because in another thread he 'suggested' it.

Vaikiss probably has.

Sam's perspective is theoretical. In theory the range and shadowstrike would mean you could force the BS out of last hit range. Its a different case in execution. Now assume you picked up a Null Talisman and he has a stout shield. On average you'd be doing 49 dmg to him. At level one bloodbath regenerates 52.5 hp. That means for every CS he hits, you gotta hit him once.

How many times do you think you'd get to hit him before you take a ton of damage from creep aggro? Heavy harass usually pushes the lane out as well. He heals for 105 hp per creep level 5 onwards. Throw in those occasional silences and you can't stop him at all for certain waves.

Zenoth had an MMR of 5600~ and I had MMR of 3900~, even for him he could not always control the lane equilibrium and many times it pushed over in our 1v1.

Overall, I think its better if you tried it out with an equally skilled BS and you would realize its not what most of this people think.

"right, if he agrees with me he probably tried it and is right."
sound logic

lol how do u lose to bs as qop? learn to pull creeps so he cant get the last hit in and spam shadow strike. if he silences u go for ez pokes with that extra damage

Dude you're just bad, you put 3 points into dagger. You walked to get top rune, saw a highground np deny it then just walked away instead of killing him.
You are like a 2nd grader trying to solve an algebra problem and crying that it doesn't make sense.
You just aren't a good player and any good player would happily rape you while you play the bs and they play the qop. Hell I'd even do it to you on your own server and I'm from aus

Even if you do win the lane as a qop, seeker is going to counter you in teamfights anyway later, so there's that. Rupture is not your friend. Silence is not your friend either. Thirst means you'll never escape by juking.

Qop on lane is really strong vs bloodseeker if you actually max out your Shadow strike and you know how to harass. Rest is just mechanical skill and a little of brain. But later in fights bloodseeker is your worst enemy, no doubt about it. Silence and rupture counter her hard.

BS is OP as fuck this patch, he is my new ember spirit

If you just dagger bs from the get go and go ballistic on the right clicks I'm pretty sure bs is fucked. Also, learn to creepblock. I highly doubt you play against players like arteezy and shit. When bs comes to last hit creeps and you think you can't deny it then just right click him. Anyway just keep creeps on your side of the river and you win. You should learn how to aggro creeps to move them towards your tower too. Your objective is just to get farm mid, not kill bs. Push lanes get runes with maxed scream of pain and harrass with that too