General Discussion

General DiscussionQuestion on Juggernaut's additional auto-attacks during omnislash

Question on Juggernaut's additional auto-attacks during omnislash in General Discussion
keisuke89

    I've googled about the attack speed required to do extra 1 slash every omnislash interval of 0.4 seconds.

    Apparently with 1.6 base attack time, it was 300 IAS needed previously.
    After 6.81's 1.5 base attack time buff, we only need 275 IAS.

    Attack speed formula is:
    Attacks per sec = (1+IAS)/BAT
    So with 275 IAS it's (1+2.75)/1.5 = 2.5 attacks per second (or 0.4 seconds/attack)

    [IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/2ch9x0j.jpg[/IMG]

    So the question is, how do we read the attack speed inside the game?
    I bought some items to lower the attack speed to 0.4 seconds/attack, but the attack speed is 393 in the picture.

    mwsqz

      you need forcestsaff instead of dagger, so you get mana

      epsik-kun

        Base attack speed is 100, not zero.

        KawaiiSocks

          There is a base IAS of 100. So, if it is 275 IAS, you get a total of 375 AS. I have re-checked the formula of attack time = BAT/ (1+IAS), and it should give 0.4 at 375 AS. Are you sure it was done after the 6.81 update? Since 393 AS corresponds to 0.407 ms per attack with a BAT of 1.6

          keisuke89

            @Nova': That's not what I'm asking ...

            @epsik-kun: Level 1 Jugg without items has 133 attack speed (1.25 seconds per attack), with 20 base agility
            If base attack speed is 100, shouldn't it be 120 attack speed (20 from agility) instead of 133 attack speed?
            That's why I don't understand how the numbers work.

            @kawaiisocks: Yup, I just took the screenshot a few minutes ago. I was playing with THD's 14 seconds sceptor ulti earlier on today, so I'm sure I'm on 6.81 patch.

            This comment was edited
            KawaiiSocks

              That is rather peculiar. Your items with MoM activated should yield 380 AS not 393. I honestly have no idea where these extra 13 AS come from...

              epsik-kun

                Huh, interesting stuff indeed. Maybe that was a mistake at lowering his BAT and someone increased his AS instead? Though, I don't even have an idea how drunk should you be to make such mistake...

                Numbers work quite simple:
                100 AS = 1 attack in 100% of BAT;
                200 AS = 1 attack in 50% of BAT;
                300 AS = 1 attack in 33,3% of BAT;
                400 AS = 1 attack in 25% of BAT.
                Or 1, 2, 3 and 4 attacks in the BAT correspondingly

                keisuke89

                  @kawaiisocks: So putting the peculiarity aside, the correct way to determine attack speed is to take 100 base IAS + items + base hero agility right?
                  I was just wondering because I thought all heroes had 100 base IAS (excluding stats) as well, and found 13 extra on the Juggernaut.
                  The total IAS also didn't tally for the 0.4 seconds per attack (most likely due to BAT staying at 1.6 since you calculated it to be 0.407ms per attack for 393 AS at 1.6).

                  @epsik-kun: Thanks for clarifying with me and lol @ your 'how drunk you should be to make such a mistake' comment.

                  This comment was edited
                  yiran

                    The in-game AS values for non 1.7 BAT heroes are incorrect.

                    yiran

                      To clarify: the mechanics works correctly and the final attacks per second/seconds per attack is correct. The numerical value however is calculated backwards from the attacks per second and is based off of those with 1.7 BAT. The Juggernaut has 380 AS but it is displayed as 393.

                      The maths is still off though…

                      This comment was edited
                      KawaiiSocks

                        There has to be some form of a rounding-up bug involved. Jugger has his 0.30 s Max attack speed. So he does have his 1.5 BAT, however not according to the calculations at early levels. E.g. he has 133 AS and 1.25 s per attack at level 1 without items.

                        Attacks/Sec = AS / BAT.

                        Seconds Per Attack = BAT / AS.

                        BAT = AS * Seconds per Attack. In this case 1.33(since it is % based)*1.25=1.6625.

                        I am lost.

                        @yiran Thanks! I have re-calculated the value for 1.5 BAT and 120 AS and it is indeed 1.25. So while it shows wrong AS, it still gives a right Attacks/Sec.

                        This comment was edited
                        yiran

                          The maths is incorrect where 1.5/3.8 = 0.3947368421, but this could be attributed to Valve first rounding it to 3 decimal places and then rounding it again to 2 decimal places for display, hence 0.395 then 0.40. However, for 1.7 BAT heroes at 393 their seconds per attack is 0.4326~, which cannot be rounded to 0.40 in any way. If a hero has 0.40 seconds per attack and 393 AS their BAT is supposedly 1.572.

                          Basically, Valve's fault.

                          (I got the 3.8 from adding the IAS of all the items and his agility. 70+80+30+100=280, +100 base = 380)

                          Born

                            did you account for his agi gain?

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