Thats my point. Ranked is now Normal matchmaking except with a number on it. Normal matchmaking is pretty much a waste land now and everyone plays ranked cause its the primary matchmaking. Why didn't they fix matchmaking in normal matchmaking and add a practice matchmaking? I really don't understand.
People need it to show off their e-penis with a number that doesn't even show your skill level.
I think it will come to a point where ranked and normal need to be merged. There should have always been just one game mode which was ranked. When I come home from work I am usually a little brain-slow and don't want to dive into a ranked so will go into a normal match or two. Some of the players there are appalling cause they simply do not care about winning or losing anymore. It's all about that number.
Before it was win rate, people would burn any amount of bridges to get it. Ranking is new win rate, where people will judge you buy it and call you out if they are even just slightly higher.
to be honest i wouldn't mind going back to when ranked/unranked were merged (i.e. just unranked). People used to play "for fun" and I believe people's hidden MMRs more accurately reflected their skill levels. Why? Because people more or less played a variety of heroes instead of the shit we have now.
nowadays if u queue ranked at any level above 4.5k you can expect
-invoker pickers (class A scum)
-terrorblade pickers (class A scum - ZENOTH IS SCUM HE PICKED TB FOR HIS 5.6K AND NOW HE IS GOING TO 6K!! ;D)
-phoneix pickers (class A scum)
-ember pickers (class A scum - if i see this shit again in ranked i'm instalocking clinkz and spending the rest of the game ganking his motherfucking ass after farming orchid)
-slark pickers (class B scum - somewhat counterable by Doom, Antimage, etc. not as big a deal nowadays, i've won like 80% of my games picking antimage against slark)
-lycan pickers (class C scum - list of counters longer)
admittedly i am a class A scum (terrorblade) but i don't mind playing other heroes, and in fact i missed the days when I could pick some mid/shit tier hero like PA/PL and still win games just by outplaying opponents. nowadays if i pick something like those heroes I can expect a free loss because the bottom feeders will hurry to pick one of the heroes i listed above for their easy win. so basically "eat or be eaten" is the mantra in ranked at levels where people last hit more than 6 cs/minute in a free lane and aren't completely clueless as to what to do in a game
tl;dr getting rid of ranked isn't a bad idea; alternatively change -ap to -rd so people are going to be forced to widen their hero pool. also counterpicking and waiting to counterpick their counterpicks is retarded and relatively skillless unless there are 80 IQ mongloids who have no idea how to fit in lineups properly. in the short run it's almost always going to be a coin flip, you have to play a bunch of ranked games (and a lot of people don't have time for that) to realistically improve your MMR unless you were calibrated in a tier multiple levels below your actual level.
Some people play to win, others play for shits and giggles. Putting both these groups in the same queue only results in them bitching about each other. Granted, ranked isn't as good as is was hyped up to be, but it's better than nothing.
Hey, without unranked where else can I lose five matches in a row with my 3k friend?
@animorphus
fuck off bitch my riki win rate is higher in ranked than my TB win rate, commend for picking scrub-tier hero plz :D
let me clarify: there is nothing "wrong" with picking the strong heroes. it's just that unless you play a BUNCH of games (i would say probably > 50 for a realistic sample) your current MMR might not reflect how well you play. this isn't an issue for me since i massed games for quite a while, but it might be for other people. back in 6.79 some people got more earth spirit pickers than others and their MMR would be lower/higher by several hundred points (300-700) than it should be. 6.80 changed that (phx/tb/ember/invoker aren't nearly as bad but still op) but basically you can expect the same dynamics and shit no matter the patch.
and while that is true cartographer (there are those who only care about winning, then there are those who play "for fun") i have found enough exceptions to the rule in both unranked/ranked. i believe mason throws games a lot in ranked whenever the match isn't going his way/he thinks his team is trash so there's that, and i wouldn't be surprised if some other people acted the same way in pubs. i play unranked on one of my smurfs and i had some pretty annoying counterpickers on the other team so i don't think it's as simple as ranked = tryhard, unranked = playpen.
funny you say that, it seems like i always get the randoming retards who have no idea how to play their hero more often than the guys on the other team
i mean if this was unranked i wouldn't give a fuck, but since everyone's concerned about their MMR you would think people would have some brains to not random and then play heroes they've played like what? 5 times in the past year?
i just pray he doesn't random a carry/mid so we still have a good chance of winning, most crystal maiden/"support players" sub 5k are trash anyway so it doesn't matter if the player randoms a support.
normal matchmaking isn't what you make it out to be (unranked)
games are more fun, less people being a bitch and what not. and way fewer instalockers
no because most competent players play ranked. People enjoy unranked more because the pressure of having someone exploit their mistakes are gone.
Playing BH is alot less stressful in unranked when people dont buy sentries
"People need it to show off their e-penis with a number that doesn't even show your skill level."
Yep
Dorkly, If you can show me one skilled 2k MM player I will never make a comment about MM ever
I am not talking about good players that for some reason have low MMR, i am talking about bad players that for some reason have high MMR.
Account buyers, people who spams the same broken hero, etc ..
account buyers go down and they go down fast look at HǣL
that is a sign that MM is doing its job
Well Dorkly it works like this: A good player will have a good rating, but a good rating does not necessarily imply the player is good.
This means that someone with 5k may not necessarily be good. But someone at 3k, relatively, is guaranteed to be bad.
So at the very least the system tells you who the bad players are. You won't believe how many 3-4k players delude themselves into thinking they are competitive tier and finding all sorts of excuses for why their team always suck. Most of them play above their level in some aspect (e.g. laning) but get held down by others, and will only compare themselves to others on their strong points.
I agree about the last part zenoth, it just interesting to see such a big difference in skill that exists beetween players with the same rating.
You would think that everyone with 5k MMR are equally good, but for what i see in streams and what you guys say in the forums its not like that.
Sampson i know MM is doing its job, i am talking about the community, people who cares more about a number than actually improving.
who cares what people 'think'. People 'think' I am a misogynistbut I volunteer for Plan Canada and help promote gender equality through different events.
My man boobs just lactated for women equality. No wonder you posted your video yesterday sampson, makes sense in your line of work to look at the whole picture on "stuff" like that I can't say otherwise I will be permabanned. :O
Translation: "i paid for an account with higher mmr than I could possibly reach, but then I dropped like a rock and ruined it. Please remove matchmaking entirely, because it reminds me of my failed monetary investment and my shows me my actual skill level"
@Zenoth: the whole "good vs bad" thing is completely relative. Most DB people consider 3.5k to be bad, when it is probably top 15% of players world wide. Ranking is an approximation of the bracket that most suits your current dota skill level, but it will never show "good vs bad."
dorkly has a good point. maybe i can elaborate on what zenoth said a bit more.
while i have never seen a "good" 2K MM player (unless they deliberately fed their account to that level for brainless/ez wins), there are plenty of people playing like trash in my bracket (4.5-5k). i'm sure i've muted around 15 people in the past 3 days just because they ran around like retards doing absolutely nothing the entire game except feed the other team. this isn't based off 1 game, it's based off 2-3 games where they went 2-10 or something and made it extremely difficult for me to carry, and i'm 100% dodging them from now on. it's possible i got unlucky and they just decided to pick trash heroes or heroes they couldn't play, but whatever. if i get unlucky 2 times with you i'm not going to tempt lady fate a third time, i'm just going to dodge your trashy ass. (esp. if you flame all game or talk shit while going 0-1000)
anyway it's all subjective - i'm sure some people have me on their "trash/dodge" list by now but i couldn't care less. "skill" is vague term and MMR is supposed to gauge ur ability to win public games. sure, those 2 are positively correlated but not coincidental, which brings me to my final point:
there's a reason professional teams don't operate with the mindset "hey look this guy has 6k mmr and is on leaderboards, let's recruit him!"
"skill" in a competitive setting means being able to execute a variety of difficult and comprehensive strategies, working with your team, and keeping your mechanics top notch so you don't get outlaned by other professional players. if you ask half of the ember/tb/slark/lycan/invoker pickers sitting at 5.5k to stand in for a professional team, they would fail dismally. why? because they are not used to anything other than picking the flavor of the patch heroes to win games. i'm sure we all have different ideas of what constitutes "skill," (last picking ember when they have no counters doesn't count as "skill" in my book) but let's not confuse that term with what MMR is really supposed to measure, which is ur ability to win games.
that is because all of the 6k MM players are alrdy known or they abused the system.(and ignored because of that) What alot of players think is that people just magically one day go BAM I am now a pro. No they worked at it ALOT and people can see talent and with talent comes MM. The system could be perfect and people would still find ways to cheat the system (I have seen people fake passports to top the ladders in online games) Saying the system does not work because of hackers and criminals is just dumb
sampson i'm not talking about cheaters - i'm saying there are plenty of people who pick 1-2 op heroes of the month (devilish comes to mind) that in a competitive setting would be relatively worthless because those heroes would get banned, or the other team would find a way to play around them. while there is nothing wrong with picking op heroes this doesn't correlate with what seems to be the general consensus for "skill."
if u tell anyone on nadota that "monkeys is just as good as broodstar cuz they both have 5.8k mmr" u would get ur ass laughed off the forums in a split second and probably banned by an admin for trolling. because nobody with half a brain thinks everyone at 5.8k mmr must have equal "skill", they have equal MMR because they win against the same set of players using different tactics. broodstar literally randoms almost every single game and still wins (he hasn't played in 2 months but at least that's what he did when he played ranked), while monkeys masses terrorblade/ember/storm spirit games. see the difference?
my problem with ranked matchmaking is that it prohibits in one way or another 5 stacks if you have a rating higher than 5k
what i mean by that is, if you 5 stack, you will get +5 +10 +1 +2 +12 for winning a match and if you lose, you'd lose -40 -50 and shit like that. thats not fun and it's actually demoralizing as fuck so people just 5 stack in normal mm anyways, so when you see people playing unranked and you see them on front page, its because of what i said
anyone with 5k like me can confirm that you have to do patsouls abuse or stack with 1 or 2 friends to at least balance it so you get like +20 and lose -20, by patsouls abuse, i mean you play on a super low rated account with 2k or 3k rating. patsoul got like +40 for winning when he did that. (and if u play with 1 or 2 friends, it means you will get two retards who work for valve to f uck you over in one way or another)
also a majority of 5k players play solo ranked to raise their e-penis, before everyone would stack, fuck bitches, be on front page etc.
the only good thing about ranked matchmaking is that i made a shit ton of cash by offering MMR boosting and selling 5.5k+ accounts in just a few weeks, i bought myself two monitors, harddrives and got new tires for my car.
thanks gabe jewell LOL
also op is a dumb fucking faggot u paid for this acc u have no right to whine about MMR, i'd never offer my services to you faggot
out of curiosity did any of the buyers maintain the 5.5k+ MMRs? or did they all plummet quickly? i'm sure 99% of account buyers just suck ass and drop to their real rating given enough games but who knows, there might be 1% who literally might play some games, feed a lot, then learn quickly and stabilize at a certain point higher than their main.
shiet i got a feeling icefraud will FUCK UP BADLY in the next patch and give us a super fucking broken hero (anyone remember lycan pre wolf nerf or centaur stun ulti? holy shit)
i need 300 matches asap on this acc LOL
It has nothing to do with the way it was created. (Even though Ranked matchmaking is old normal matchmaking with a number). But its the psychology that is involved with these things. The only people that play normal matchmaking are sometimes trolls or people that are trash bad and have sensitive feelings towards criticism. But Why dont they have a 0 consequence practice queue system that relies on removing stimulus from matchmaking and instead relies on a learning environment. Having normal as the primary matchmaking would just be matchmaking without people buying accounts or cutting their dick off about a pixelated number.
TLDR: I bought my account tanked it and now want ranked removed because I have a shit number to look at daily and that feeling of failure hangs over my head
If you hate account buyers sampson why wouldn't you be for removing ranked since it helps lower the amount of account buyers?
I hate child porn being spread over the internet but I am not advocating for the internet to be closed down. Take out the problem where it is at.
I have to disagree with Sam, some of us didnt instantly get 5k MMR and its much easier to improve when you actually know that you are getting better (mmr up) or that you arent actually becomming better but most likely do the same mistakes as before. Without MMR I would have no idea I am winning more just because of getting lucky with better teammates or if I am contributing to the results.
And normal is also good when trying new heros or introducing the game to new friends who dont want to be branded with shit mmr and stop playing because of it.
@Animorphus
Well according to this article:
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1398477
at about 5K mmr ..."There also seem to be some people playing like complete utter garbage in either team, maybe it's the account selling but when your maiden is level 5 in 16 minutes and autoattacks the creep wave with 2 enemy heroes 400 range from her in daytime... sigh." - So I would say no.
Is it actually true though, that people buy/sell accounts and how often do you guys at 5K mmr meet players who seem like they have bought the account?
That is a god awful fucking analogy sampson. I can see why you are angry all the time cause you have the perspective on some insect. The equivalent to hating child porn and shutting down the Internet would be hating ranked and account buying and removing dota off the steam store. The correct equivalent is hating child porn and removing the websites affiliated.
SEA - haven't really met any. I had a game with this one guy who played Disruptor mid and fed 0-5 to the enemy Invoker before 10 minutes and everyone thought he was an account buyer or something, but at the end of the match it turned out he was 4690 and Invoker was 5806. Didn't really help that when my teammates flamed him for wanting to go mid with Disruptor I mentioned that Disruptor does pretty decently mid...
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/792940443916169462/A3BBA688579FCBA7F2225798CE9767C202F64B39/
there are account buyers but not as many as some people seem to think.
They think X player did not play like dendi = account bought
@Hael - and "removing the websites affiliated" is analogous to removing fucking account buyers.
But just like the child porn sites, it is hard to root out all the account buyers *AHEM*.
or the company and servers that host them. i.e Ranked
You can't just remove websites magically (Accounts) so you kill it at the source of why they are doing it (companies that sell to people to do child porn) Ranked.
Hael I dont think you understand how a analogy works. Then again it is coming from a person who thought he could buy his way to ti4
The company and servers that host them here is analogous to the internet already. So instead of fixing the problem of people filming child porn you're going to take down servers which child porn filmmakers may be simply piggybacking onto? Great success.
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I understand why people wanted this, but now since its been established and its been water downed to (old) Normal matchmaking with a number, what is the big deal?
Wouldn't it be cognitively logical to have a Normal matchmaking Queue and a Practice Queue where it doesn't calculate kills/deaths/wins/losses. You would have a 5v5 pvp system that doesn't calculate certain stimuli in the game that triggers competitiveness and then you would have Normal matchmaking which is Normal games.
Why Have ranked and let Normal rot with least played game modes? I really don't understand the reason of ranked besides people whining about not having it. Wouldn't normal matchmaking be Pubs, Practice Matchmaking be Practice, and Team matchmaking be Ranked?