i think at lot of people base this on his ult, which can either be very powerful or incredibly weak. Bloodseeker, at level 25, has higher damage per rightclick than Terrorblade (including damage range), and is on sof the highest in the game, apart from tiny with growth, treant protector and drow with her passive.
Clearly he can easily be kited due to his lack of disables, but I feel that although he'll never be considered a replacement for any very hard carry, he can still be a very good core in a team due to how much better his early game is compared to many other carries
@Waga, I guess I am going to watch a game of your bloodcyka then. I'm suprised if you say that its working fine, I always thought BS would have huge troubles.
Can someone explain why people build Radiance on him? It seems kinda useless on him to me. He doesn't get anything from it that, say, Death Prophet wouldn't.
Its helps being really good at the game when you play BS...
The hero seems to rely on a skill gap more so than other heroes.
and the reason people build radiance on him is because he can secure the farm for it. BS can get every single last hit in lane. He is also fast as hell, has a silence, and his ulti, thus enemies can't escape the radiance burn. That doesn't mean it is the correct choice, but if BH gets a few early kills and secures a ton of farm, he can get a 14 minute radiance.
another reason for the radiance is the aoe effect damage, considering all of his abilities are single target. his ability to farm creeps is rather good, so he easily pick one up in less than 20 minutes. also if you kill creeps with the radiance burn you still get the heal from bloodbath, meaning you can end up getting quite a lot of heal very quickly, sometimes unexpectedly saving you if you're pushing highground, for example
And there are a lot of heroes that are difficult to run from, but they don't rush Radiance. Everyone's farm gets accelerated by Radiance, but Bloodseeker doesn't really need the flashfarm. The chance for you to lasthit a creep and for that extra bit of regen to save you is a pretty low chance IMO.
Getting a Radiance leaves Bloodseeker hopelessly fragile. Radiance carriers almost always are either very tanky or can abuse illusions to farm and splitpush. I dunno. I just feel like it's not a good item at all on him. Getting Agility items is much more efficient it terms of damage.
^^oh yeah, i totally agree that agility items = good. 99% of the time rushing a radiance is a bad move, but it's sort of one of those items which, if you can realistically get it early with little detriment, you should. depending on how well your early/mid game goes sometimes you can farm s+y, followed by radiance in sub 25 minutes
i've experimented with both radiance and mjollnir, both are really good. i tend to go radiance if it's likely i can get it <20 minutes, but if not i go mjollnir because of the easier buildup, and insane attack speed. i haven't played bloodseeker with mjollnir since the 6.79 megapatch, but i can imagine it's a lot more useful now than when i built it around a year ago, due to him having thirt damage now
Survivability on this hero is really good, you can go down to 10% hp and a hero death becomes such a swing in the teamfight. People don't often go BKB on this hero and I think that's wrong.
Radiance as an item is pretty much always situational, it's actually quite a good pickup against teams that rely on a blink dagger initiation.
Don't you feel your comparison to Slark is a bit unfair? Slark has more burst damage, making "tp out" less possible. pounce (240) + lothars (150) + dark pact (300) + let's say 5 hits (call it 500 damage and ignore essence shift) = 1190. I'd also argue Slark is far more dominant in his lane early on (before lvl 6) since level 1 pounce can result in a FB.
i'd argue that bs can even go toe to toe with viper as a melee hero with just qb/pms, given that their skill is relatively even - viper would still most likely win, but hey what other common melee heroes stand a chance against that harass?
slark's fish fodder, sure he can get FB, but i only imagine him being more viable in a 1v1 lane
radiance on bs is a very tilt item. It's almost unfair once he gets blade mail next. The way he plays he doesn't even had to CK like a pro to get it in under 18-25 mintues.
My BS: 60 games, 66.67% winrate, 4.75 KDA. Haven't expiermented with mjollnir but I suppose it works in higher tier when they can actually play & counter pick.
@Vandal you´re assuming lvl 14 and some items, so by comparison, a lvl 14 BS with treads sange (drums) aswell.
I'd say rupture + 5bloodrage hits is more dmg than what u described, or atleast same. Possibly even more, if others are low on the map.
People underestimate BS dmg, you ahve about 300dmg per swing at lvl 14.
Because:
1. The bad reputation that he got before he got buffed
2. Any feeder on your team who have bloodseeker as their most played hero
3. Your experience with bloodseeker on your team being useless
4. Lack of competitive player playing this hero in tournament (not popular in competitive scene)
5. Dendi not using it
While most of those heroes could be considered countered by TP because they do not have a reliable stun. The problem with BS is that his ULTI is countered by TP.
Radiance is a nice item on him cus
-It gives him aoe in a team fight, with blood bath and a good team this can equate to a ton of damage
-It lets him just run after heroes burning them. Pretty much impossible to escape him with this. Disable him, doesn't matter, you're still burning and he catches up after disable wears off.
That said he needs some hp so I don't know if rushing it is ideal but it's a great snowball item.
i think at lot of people base this on his ult, which can either be very powerful or incredibly weak. Bloodseeker, at level 25, has higher damage per rightclick than Terrorblade (including damage range), and is on sof the highest in the game, apart from tiny with growth, treant protector and drow with her passive.
Clearly he can easily be kited due to his lack of disables, but I feel that although he'll never be considered a replacement for any very hard carry, he can still be a very good core in a team due to how much better his early game is compared to many other carries
I think he's picked up less because of the "Bloodcyka" stigma as well.
I've been saying for a while that he's a legit counterpick to heroes like Weaver, Timbersaw, and OD (he breaks even with OD mid).
@Waga, I guess I am going to watch a game of your bloodcyka then. I'm suprised if you say that its working fine, I always thought BS would have huge troubles.
For what it's worth here are some heroes off the top of my head that are "countered" by TPs.
Bloodseeker (Duh)
Bristleback
Timbersaw
Io
Phoenix
Lifestealer
Lycan
Abbadon
Drow Ranger
Phantom Lancer
Riki
Ursa
Templar Assassin
Tinker
Nature's Prophet
Enchantress
Skywrath Mage
Keeper of the Light
Shadow Fiend
Razor
Venomancer
Viper
Clinkz
Spectre
Weaver
Slark
Queen of Pain
Pugna
Death Prophet
Buncha shitty heroes. Kappa.
Can someone explain why people build Radiance on him? It seems kinda useless on him to me. He doesn't get anything from it that, say, Death Prophet wouldn't.
Its helps being really good at the game when you play BS...
The hero seems to rely on a skill gap more so than other heroes.
and the reason people build radiance on him is because he can secure the farm for it. BS can get every single last hit in lane. He is also fast as hell, has a silence, and his ulti, thus enemies can't escape the radiance burn. That doesn't mean it is the correct choice, but if BH gets a few early kills and secures a ton of farm, he can get a 14 minute radiance.
another reason for the radiance is the aoe effect damage, considering all of his abilities are single target. his ability to farm creeps is rather good, so he easily pick one up in less than 20 minutes. also if you kill creeps with the radiance burn you still get the heal from bloodbath, meaning you can end up getting quite a lot of heal very quickly, sometimes unexpectedly saving you if you're pushing highground, for example
"aoe effect"
Area of effect effect? :)
And there are a lot of heroes that are difficult to run from, but they don't rush Radiance. Everyone's farm gets accelerated by Radiance, but Bloodseeker doesn't really need the flashfarm. The chance for you to lasthit a creep and for that extra bit of regen to save you is a pretty low chance IMO.
Getting a Radiance leaves Bloodseeker hopelessly fragile. Radiance carriers almost always are either very tanky or can abuse illusions to farm and splitpush. I dunno. I just feel like it's not a good item at all on him. Getting Agility items is much more efficient it terms of damage.
If you want a farming item on BS, buy Mjollnir. Not radiance. It will do a lot more for sure!
^^oh yeah, i totally agree that agility items = good. 99% of the time rushing a radiance is a bad move, but it's sort of one of those items which, if you can realistically get it early with little detriment, you should. depending on how well your early/mid game goes sometimes you can farm s+y, followed by radiance in sub 25 minutes
i've experimented with both radiance and mjollnir, both are really good. i tend to go radiance if it's likely i can get it <20 minutes, but if not i go mjollnir because of the easier buildup, and insane attack speed. i haven't played bloodseeker with mjollnir since the 6.79 megapatch, but i can imagine it's a lot more useful now than when i built it around a year ago, due to him having thirt damage now
Survivability on this hero is really good, you can go down to 10% hp and a hero death becomes such a swing in the teamfight. People don't often go BKB on this hero and I think that's wrong.
Radiance as an item is pretty much always situational, it's actually quite a good pickup against teams that rely on a blink dagger initiation.
@waga
Don't you feel your comparison to Slark is a bit unfair? Slark has more burst damage, making "tp out" less possible. pounce (240) + lothars (150) + dark pact (300) + let's say 5 hits (call it 500 damage and ignore essence shift) = 1190. I'd also argue Slark is far more dominant in his lane early on (before lvl 6) since level 1 pounce can result in a FB.
^
i'd argue that bs can even go toe to toe with viper as a melee hero with just qb/pms, given that their skill is relatively even - viper would still most likely win, but hey what other common melee heroes stand a chance against that harass?
slark's fish fodder, sure he can get FB, but i only imagine him being more viable in a 1v1 lane
he just melts like butter in an early team fight
radiance on bs is a very tilt item. It's almost unfair once he gets blade mail next. The way he plays he doesn't even had to CK like a pro to get it in under 18-25 mintues.
I'm not the best BS but dang he does work in 3k tier. http://dotabuff.com/players/47400225/matches?game_mode=&hero=bloodseeker&lobby_type=&match_type=real
My BS: 60 games, 66.67% winrate, 4.75 KDA. Haven't expiermented with mjollnir but I suppose it works in higher tier when they can actually play & counter pick.
@Vandal you´re assuming lvl 14 and some items, so by comparison, a lvl 14 BS with treads sange (drums) aswell.
I'd say rupture + 5bloodrage hits is more dmg than what u described, or atleast same. Possibly even more, if others are low on the map.
People underestimate BS dmg, you ahve about 300dmg per swing at lvl 14.
Thanks for the insightful info waga. I have never favored bloodseeker but going to give him a try now.
^
he is actually playing bs, just wait for the feed
Because:
1. The bad reputation that he got before he got buffed
2. Any feeder on your team who have bloodseeker as their most played hero
3. Your experience with bloodseeker on your team being useless
4. Lack of competitive player playing this hero in tournament (not popular in competitive scene)
5. Dendi not using it
^Pretty much
26 mins later, easy game http://dotabuff.com/matches/580492735
Raceseeker build nice.
Actually the Euls was for me diving the luna. Don't want to take ult solo chasing.
long time not using bs and also long time not seen bs, in sea bs only picked occasionaly.
gratz on being first verified player to post on this forums (i think)
(:
^True
@dacheat.
While most of those heroes could be considered countered by TP because they do not have a reliable stun. The problem with BS is that his ULTI is countered by TP.
waga is at like 6.8k MMR right now.
Radiance is a nice item on him cus
-It gives him aoe in a team fight, with blood bath and a good team this can equate to a ton of damage
-It lets him just run after heroes burning them. Pretty much impossible to escape him with this. Disable him, doesn't matter, you're still burning and he catches up after disable wears off.
That said he needs some hp so I don't know if rushing it is ideal but it's a great snowball item.