I love urn on CM, if noone else builds it, right after finished boots or something. Never tried medalion on her, but shes already dies if someone looks a her, so it maybe even good as an item to press just before dying/moving back to fog.
I cant see how bane is CM-easy. I mean he can be useful even used badly, but not CM/Lich level hero to use correctly. Also, noobs can screw their noob teammates real hard if nightmare is on them and the bane player doesnt take it down instantly. Worst thing you can do with a CM is feed, as a Bane, you have a lot more chances to annoy your own team accidentally.
Back to the counterwarding part, why would it take twice the time to use only one slot? Have you heard about the courier in the game? Or ask one of your 4 carries to hold your sentries for a sec, they usually have slot even in late-game whenever they finish a bigger item. Or just place sentries on ground when your team is around, use as bait, if no enemy comes to pick up, you had a free 7th slot, if they do, kill them xD
how the fuck did u miss my post I was being completely serious. Stop fucking copying pro players in tournaments. In pub matches there is no '5 players support'. Because of the slower reactions of pubs (it does not have to be bad players it is just slower due to the lack of team organization) that role can not exist. If you want to do well in pub matches throw 5 out of the window and work on 4 until you create a 5man team.
"...one of 4 carries..." - somehow I can feel it from here.
I think pro tip about dropping ward on the ground as a bait worth to be in Na'Vi DOTA tricks video. =)
Just joking, looks like I'm bad at managing my inventory slots, as bad in many other things.
the 4 position will build cheap team fight oriented items (mek, drums, force staff, etc) or his core item (dagger) while still helping the position 5 with wards/dusts/sentries/etc.
Sand King and Shadow Shaman are 4 positions, and they can't jungle efficiently.
CM is played most of the times as a 5, but her jungle is ok.
@I3
:D I imagine how my LC picker friends would react to this :D made me laugh :D
@OP
4 only means you are allowed to take some farm, like in a tri(hard xD) lane, you do the pulling, or even if you do it together for letting carry take solo exp, you take the cs, you can later farm the small camp while #5 stacks the large camp/ancient.. If you are solo support, still you are allowed to take some jungle creeps, just do the stacking too if you have time for that. as cm i like to stack large camp at :52 and also kill the big creap from first camp, so i have 1 big creep money/exp while my carry can take 1 full camp + the small creeps. do it every min if you are around, gives you lots of gold compared to nothing.. you can also 3-4 stack ancients and ask your carry to let you take 1 creeps gold. he still has a lot more farm than without you but you get something too. Also, feel free to stay there for exp. i think in pubs if you stack, you are allowed to take 1-2 cs, couse most pub supports wont even bother stacking (if you play above 4.5k maybe its not the same)
the lower the number, the highest priority they have on farming gold and experience.
1 is the carry, 2 the midlaner, 3 the offlaner (the jungler sometimes) and 4-5 the supports.
the 4 support takes a bit of farm, the 5 support is the "ward bitch".
quick edit:
by jungler on position 3 I mean the times you have to abandon the offlane and go to the woods
I like "ward bitch" :D When ppl start calling mid i usually tell them Im gonna play ward bitch. Its nice when you play CM, little weird when its some male and ugly hero like ... imagine Bane as.. no, dont do it :D
wew,i think u should buy some SoD and hide
When your carrier or nuker get caught,u have to save them and cast ur spells in their face
sry bad english ^^
But in this low bracket ( where i play ) the position 5 is like everything and only for suporting ( ward, dust, gem,smoke, chick, crow ) and w/o farm ( ofc, few games, had another suporter, and then the game has good flow ). But this, it is just crazy. It is like 4 x 1 role and one suporter.
Why not ward bitch? I like that name ( kinda ) ^_^
I have seen many times Sniper vs Pudge mid. And Sniper always ended up feeding badly. So I decided to babysit him and make Pudge's life as hard as possible. But I ended up giving him first blood. And again, I failed to farm any items. And my teammates actually shouted at me: "For God's sake, please, don't buy any more wards!" =)
IDK what actually went wrong in this game, I think we had advantage early and good tier 3 defense in late game. Was it all my fault?
^ you need to go to youtube and watch a video on how to play. You do not understand even the basics of playing support. I am not trying to be mean but I really do not have the time to start from scratch and explain everything
my two cents is that support players sometimes focus a little too much on warding and dewarding and not enough on some small items. a simple bracer or two will go a very long way for a support. Remember that warding isn't just something to do because "that is what supports do." Warding needs to serve a purpose, and you should know why you are placing wards.
In pro matches, you will often see supports only use perhaps 1 one ward rather than two, saving their wards for a later time (often to then drop 3-4 for huge map control).
Supports have very little farm coming to them. In order to be a effective late game support, you need to maximize the little gold you get, so that when late game comes, you aren't completely destroyed in two seconds. Bracers, 2 bracers, dums, meka... force staff... bkb. These items on supports are often just as important as wards, and certainly more important than wards that server no purpose.
^I warded and dewarded in that game because of Pudge. He played as a support and constantly warded/dewarded our jungle. But warding not always helps. Once I saw Pudge standing exactly on my observer ward, yet he still succeeded to land a hook on Sniper.
BTW, to all who say that Russians are bad, this Sniper with Poor Man's Shield plays EU west.
If you arent going Mek, always buy an urn or bracer. Not saying you cant buy if you also have a mek, but if not, absolutely get it.
If you are behind in levels, you are allowed to pick stats instead of a skill that already lost its effectiveness couse you are behind in levels. If you dont even have mana or time to use a shitty nuke couse you die instantly, then skill lvl of your nuke wont help much.
You were the one saying somewhere you played wow? As a wow player it was hard for me to understand how much those little amount of stats will actually help me, I got used to BIG numbers.
Just played Vengeful. Its good to have something like the Medallion as it decreases enemy armour, makes them easier to kill, and when not in use, gives you armour too.
@Vaeldiithia
Even in WoW I play only healers. Restoration druid mostly. It's hard to make me shift out of druid's tree form to do something aggressive, not just healing. Looks like I keep this line in DOTA.
My only hope is Sampson, but he doesn't want to teach me how to play support.
And i dont get why you have 0 items (again?). I rarly have just 1 item finished (mana boots) after 50 mins and nothing else. You should drop some sentrys and focus more in items (bracer for drums would be good in that game).
Warding ist good
But if you cant affort dewarding because you still have 0 items, try to finish 1-2 items (small items like drums, medallion e.t.c., not agha...)
Your games last too long. That is probably because you are playing with noobs. Your job as a support when you are with noobs is to disable and help them get kills. Noobs are only good when they have all 6 hard carry items and can just auto attack people down in 4 shots.
Crystal Maiden is great for picking up early kills, especially if you have mana dependant heroes on your team. Max/3lvl the Aura out first, it has more benefit early game and is not that relevant late game as people usually have enough pool/regen by then. Something like Q W E E W E Q. You don't gain a lot upgrading your Q/W past the first 2 points. Maybe a point in the E second if your team want it.
I think you will see that you are building CM wrong from a support point of view. You are building her so she is as strong as she can be solo. Let's take a look at a few of your build progressions
Why are you maxing W first? You can put 2 in this but is it worth 2 extra points for 70 damage and 1 extra second of freeze?
Frostbite
Range: 500
Duration: 1.5/2/2.5/3
Damage Per Second: 70
Damage is done at 0/1.0/2.0/3.0 seconds, dealing (at each skill level) 140/210/210/280 damage
Try putting a point in Q early on. It has a greater range than the W. Lane with a viper or something, he can orb slow, you can slow, you can then trap with your E and he has first blood in 3/4 mins. Generally skip the ulti till level 8+. You won't be able to use it. You need great positioning to use it and some health to absorb attacks too.
You not counting right clicks, more time enemy stands still - more right clicks you can land on him. Ofc, Crystal Nova provides extra slow, but landing two nukes at a time eats your mana pool very fast. 3 seconds Frostbite + Ultimate = sure kill (unless enemy has a way to interrupt your channeling).
One can run away from Viper only if he has some sort of escape or TP scroll at least. Besides, Viper is a mid hero.
To keep with the spirit of the question I would of picked up a BKB or hex staff for your 2nd item so you don't die immediately in a teamfight.
I think Mek is really core on a team. It seems when my team doesn't pick up a mek and I sadly decide to grab a carry, it is a high chance we will lose it seems.
@Soultrap:
I played disc/holy priest of 4 years, so had same problem early on, I just wanted to heal/help.. Im still not enough aggressiv but a lot better than at start...
Try to not even buy sentries for some games... Only one set in-lane if you are against something invis, and against invis heroes buy dust or let your team buy dust or something. Dont counterward. just try to build items, and build support items... Mek, Drums, Urn, Medallion, just a simple bracer... dont save up 1k gold for manaboots, buy brown boots, buy a ~600 gold cheap parts item (bracer, urn, headdress) then finish manaboots then build you cheap item into mek/drums even pipe. if it was urn, start building your first "bigger" item now. only build mek if you can finish before min20-22. get force staff after your finished boots + first bigger item. keep up observers but for now, forget sentries... you need items. i do the same mistake a lot, thinking im pro i can do without items. no i cant. you cant its obvious from your stats. :D so buy items
do it for some games, you will feel the difference and can decide what is more important in that particular game
^regarding CM skill build
while you are right in saying more right clicks on hero trapped will do more damage, in the early game (when CM is most effective) your lane partner won't be attacking particularly hard or fast
Let's say you have 2 levels in W, 2 in E, and are debating what to get for your 5th skill point
If you get one more level in W you get no extra damage from the spell (due to the damage intervals), with only a 0.5 second increase in duration (let's say that gives your lane partner time to get 2 extra auto attacks off for around 100 damage, maximum)
By substituting a third point in W, for one point in Q gives you +100 damage from the spell, as well as a 3.5 second, 30% movespeed slow during which time you can get off several more auto attacks because you're moving faster than them. Considering the enemy also has attack speed slowed by 20%, means your lane partner will be safer to attack the enemy, as they'll take less damage back
Soultrap. Why are you talking about BKB and TPing out? We are talking about the first 5 minutes of the game. This is when CM is really effective. You are worried about mana? 3 points in E gives you +4 mana per second and 2 per second for your team. That is +200% mana/s for some people.
Your job as a ranged support with great harass spells is to harass and make it as easy as possible for your lane partner to farm. You can make that really easy by helping him take out an opponent. He gets 250+gold for that, which is around 2 creep waves by the time a couple are denied.
The times you have money for BKB and Hex are times that you have won the game early. You need to start making an impact earlier on. You don't need to ward/counter ward all the time if you can see 5 people on the map.
If you are playing with smart people they will buy wards for you. It is much easier for them to get last hits and guaranteed gold than you to try and last hit and neither of you get gold. Your job is to make it easy for the carry to get the last hits safely and not die.
-- You not counting right clicks, more time enemy stands still - more right clicks you can land on him.
How many right clicks can you land in 1 second early game? CM's attack time is about 1.3s at this point of the game and not many players will be below the 1s barrier. 100 extra damage from a Q and a slow, and a reduced attack speed do way more than 2 right clicks.
@Vaeldiithia
When I place wards, I hope my teammates will pay attention to this extra vision. While you beforehand decided that they not worth your support.
@Knight Of End
There are many factors. And it depends on what you want to achieve.
1) if you want to kill enemy hero, then you are right, CM definitely needs both nukes, and third point in Frostbite nearly worthless.
2) if you want to harass then maxing Frostbite is better, because you need to cast it repeatedly and your mana is not infinite (best if you Frostbite enemy hero when he is about to lasthit creep)
3) if you against a trilane, range matters, if you attempt to close in for Frostbite, you may find yourself in dangerous position. In this case you may want to max Crystal Nova and stay away.
But this is just my newbish thoughts...
@djgandy
Where have you seen carries buying wards for Crystal Maiden? What region you play in? Or should I ask - what planet? =)
I love urn on CM, if noone else builds it, right after finished boots or something. Never tried medalion on her, but shes already dies if someone looks a her, so it maybe even good as an item to press just before dying/moving back to fog.
I cant see how bane is CM-easy. I mean he can be useful even used badly, but not CM/Lich level hero to use correctly. Also, noobs can screw their noob teammates real hard if nightmare is on them and the bane player doesnt take it down instantly. Worst thing you can do with a CM is feed, as a Bane, you have a lot more chances to annoy your own team accidentally.
Back to the counterwarding part, why would it take twice the time to use only one slot? Have you heard about the courier in the game? Or ask one of your 4 carries to hold your sentries for a sec, they usually have slot even in late-game whenever they finish a bigger item. Or just place sentries on ground when your team is around, use as bait, if no enemy comes to pick up, you had a free 7th slot, if they do, kill them xD
how the fuck did u miss my post I was being completely serious. Stop fucking copying pro players in tournaments. In pub matches there is no '5 players support'. Because of the slower reactions of pubs (it does not have to be bad players it is just slower due to the lack of team organization) that role can not exist. If you want to do well in pub matches throw 5 out of the window and work on 4 until you create a 5man team.
"...one of 4 carries..." - somehow I can feel it from here.
I think pro tip about dropping ward on the ground as a bait worth to be in Na'Vi DOTA tricks video. =)
Just joking, looks like I'm bad at managing my inventory slots, as bad in many other things.
@Sampson
4 means you have to jungle, very few heroes can do this efficiently.
Btw, every time I try to play as a "greedy support" it ends miserably.
4 means you have to jungle?
haha ok, so i'll tell the next pub naix/furi/LC that they should buy some fucking wards (when i almost finished an item)
Not sure about Lifestealer and Nature's Prophet possibilities, but I played Legion Commander as #5 only. So if you ask me to buy ward, when I'm playing LC, I'll do it gladly.
http://dotabuff.com/players/146582953/matches?hero=legion-commander&game_mode=&match_type=real
uhh no Soultrap.
the 4 position will build cheap team fight oriented items (mek, drums, force staff, etc) or his core item (dagger) while still helping the position 5 with wards/dusts/sentries/etc.
Sand King and Shadow Shaman are 4 positions, and they can't jungle efficiently.
CM is played most of the times as a 5, but her jungle is ok.
LC support is actually somewhat legit.
@I3
:D I imagine how my LC picker friends would react to this :D made me laugh :D
@OP
4 only means you are allowed to take some farm, like in a tri(hard xD) lane, you do the pulling, or even if you do it together for letting carry take solo exp, you take the cs, you can later farm the small camp while #5 stacks the large camp/ancient.. If you are solo support, still you are allowed to take some jungle creeps, just do the stacking too if you have time for that. as cm i like to stack large camp at :52 and also kill the big creap from first camp, so i have 1 big creep money/exp while my carry can take 1 full camp + the small creeps. do it every min if you are around, gives you lots of gold compared to nothing.. you can also 3-4 stack ancients and ask your carry to let you take 1 creeps gold. he still has a lot more farm than without you but you get something too. Also, feel free to stay there for exp. i think in pubs if you stack, you are allowed to take 1-2 cs, couse most pub supports wont even bother stacking (if you play above 4.5k maybe its not the same)
1 - carry
2 - mid
3 - offlane
4 - jungler (pull lane creeps or jungle naturally)
5 - babysitter (no farm)
This is how I understand 1-5 system, am I wrong?
@Vaeldiithia
One CS here... one CS there... It's stealing anyway.
kinda.
the lower the number, the highest priority they have on farming gold and experience.
1 is the carry, 2 the midlaner, 3 the offlaner (the jungler sometimes) and 4-5 the supports.
the 4 support takes a bit of farm, the 5 support is the "ward bitch".
quick edit:
by jungler on position 3 I mean the times you have to abandon the offlane and go to the woods
Please call me "hard support" or "number 5", but "ward bitch" is a bit too much... =)
I like "ward bitch" :D When ppl start calling mid i usually tell them Im gonna play ward bitch. Its nice when you play CM, little weird when its some male and ugly hero like ... imagine Bane as.. no, dont do it :D
wew,i think u should buy some SoD and hide
When your carrier or nuker get caught,u have to save them and cast ur spells in their face
sry bad english ^^
But in this low bracket ( where i play ) the position 5 is like everything and only for suporting ( ward, dust, gem,smoke, chick, crow ) and w/o farm ( ofc, few games, had another suporter, and then the game has good flow ). But this, it is just crazy. It is like 4 x 1 role and one suporter.
Why not ward bitch? I like that name ( kinda ) ^_^
The number system please do not read too much into the heros listed as meta changes, but the descriptions are correct.
@ Soultrap
You're a ward bitch, as am I.
GAME STARTS
Invoker: "Mid please."
Queen of Pain: "No."
Invoker: "No?"
Queen of Pain: "You know your place, dirty ward bitch... Get to work!"
@Melody-San 少女
You lived in Soviet Russia too? =)
Melody has 62 Luna games.
Excuse me sir, have you accepted Luna as your waifu and carry yet?
LOL FUCK. God damnit Satellizer.
6.81: Luna's butt size nerfed -> Satellizer will cry
[Img]http://imageshack.com/a/img194/5543/8ezy.jpg[/img]
Nova?...
@sano
for Selemayonnaise pls no
^Holy son of monkey uncle, how the fuck you got that wr and kda on luna? Do they let you free farm for 30 min? :p
Well, yea, my friend is a really good support.
Totally mad.
reported for ruining an amazing picture
I have another game example of 50+ minutes game as a support. Venomancer now.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/525785838
I have seen many times Sniper vs Pudge mid. And Sniper always ended up feeding badly. So I decided to babysit him and make Pudge's life as hard as possible. But I ended up giving him first blood. And again, I failed to farm any items. And my teammates actually shouted at me: "For God's sake, please, don't buy any more wards!" =)
IDK what actually went wrong in this game, I think we had advantage early and good tier 3 defense in late game. Was it all my fault?
^ you need to go to youtube and watch a video on how to play. You do not understand even the basics of playing support. I am not trying to be mean but I really do not have the time to start from scratch and explain everything
^^^ ROLF, i love doge
^I watched almost all Purge's videos. If you have something specific, share please.
my two cents is that support players sometimes focus a little too much on warding and dewarding and not enough on some small items. a simple bracer or two will go a very long way for a support. Remember that warding isn't just something to do because "that is what supports do." Warding needs to serve a purpose, and you should know why you are placing wards.
In pro matches, you will often see supports only use perhaps 1 one ward rather than two, saving their wards for a later time (often to then drop 3-4 for huge map control).
Supports have very little farm coming to them. In order to be a effective late game support, you need to maximize the little gold you get, so that when late game comes, you aren't completely destroyed in two seconds. Bracers, 2 bracers, dums, meka... force staff... bkb. These items on supports are often just as important as wards, and certainly more important than wards that server no purpose.
@Satellizer - 6.81 new meta
^I warded and dewarded in that game because of Pudge. He played as a support and constantly warded/dewarded our jungle. But warding not always helps. Once I saw Pudge standing exactly on my observer ward, yet he still succeeded to land a hook on Sniper.
BTW, to all who say that Russians are bad, this Sniper with Poor Man's Shield plays EU west.
i was speaking in general, not specifically to your game.
If you arent going Mek, always buy an urn or bracer. Not saying you cant buy if you also have a mek, but if not, absolutely get it.
If you are behind in levels, you are allowed to pick stats instead of a skill that already lost its effectiveness couse you are behind in levels. If you dont even have mana or time to use a shitty nuke couse you die instantly, then skill lvl of your nuke wont help much.
You were the one saying somewhere you played wow? As a wow player it was hard for me to understand how much those little amount of stats will actually help me, I got used to BIG numbers.
Just played Vengeful. Its good to have something like the Medallion as it decreases enemy armour, makes them easier to kill, and when not in use, gives you armour too.
@Vaeldiithia
Even in WoW I play only healers. Restoration druid mostly. It's hard to make me shift out of druid's tree form to do something aggressive, not just healing. Looks like I keep this line in DOTA.
My only hope is Sampson, but he doesn't want to teach me how to play support.
for what you have the point booster again?
And i dont get why you have 0 items (again?). I rarly have just 1 item finished (mana boots) after 50 mins and nothing else. You should drop some sentrys and focus more in items (bracer for drums would be good in that game).
Warding ist good
But if you cant affort dewarding because you still have 0 items, try to finish 1-2 items (small items like drums, medallion e.t.c., not agha...)
@Soultrap
Your games last too long. That is probably because you are playing with noobs. Your job as a support when you are with noobs is to disable and help them get kills. Noobs are only good when they have all 6 hard carry items and can just auto attack people down in 4 shots.
Crystal Maiden is great for picking up early kills, especially if you have mana dependant heroes on your team. Max/3lvl the Aura out first, it has more benefit early game and is not that relevant late game as people usually have enough pool/regen by then. Something like Q W E E W E Q. You don't gain a lot upgrading your Q/W past the first 2 points. Maybe a point in the E second if your team want it.
I suggest you read about the hero: http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Crystal_Maiden
I think you will see that you are building CM wrong from a support point of view. You are building her so she is as strong as she can be solo. Let's take a look at a few of your build progressions
http://dotabuff.com/matches/525622756/skills
W E W E W R W Q E E R
Why are you maxing W first? You can put 2 in this but is it worth 2 extra points for 70 damage and 1 extra second of freeze?
Frostbite
Range: 500
Duration: 1.5/2/2.5/3
Damage Per Second: 70
Damage is done at 0/1.0/2.0/3.0 seconds, dealing (at each skill level) 140/210/210/280 damage
http://dotabuff.com/matches/519559362/skills
W E W E W
Game ended early, the same again though. Why not put a point in Q? Then you have two slows and extra damage?
More of the same
http://dotabuff.com/matches/518678005/skills
http://dotabuff.com/matches/518573262/skills
http://dotabuff.com/matches/518522915/skills
Try putting a point in Q early on. It has a greater range than the W. Lane with a viper or something, he can orb slow, you can slow, you can then trap with your E and he has first blood in 3/4 mins. Generally skip the ulti till level 8+. You won't be able to use it. You need great positioning to use it and some health to absorb attacks too.
You not counting right clicks, more time enemy stands still - more right clicks you can land on him. Ofc, Crystal Nova provides extra slow, but landing two nukes at a time eats your mana pool very fast. 3 seconds Frostbite + Ultimate = sure kill (unless enemy has a way to interrupt your channeling).
One can run away from Viper only if he has some sort of escape or TP scroll at least. Besides, Viper is a mid hero.
Hi Soultrap,
To keep with the spirit of the question I would of picked up a BKB or hex staff for your 2nd item so you don't die immediately in a teamfight.
I think Mek is really core on a team. It seems when my team doesn't pick up a mek and I sadly decide to grab a carry, it is a high chance we will lose it seems.
Looks like I can farm enough money for BKB or Hex only if my team winning, but if we winning anyway, I don't have problems with survivability.
Irony...
@Soultrap:
I played disc/holy priest of 4 years, so had same problem early on, I just wanted to heal/help.. Im still not enough aggressiv but a lot better than at start...
Try to not even buy sentries for some games... Only one set in-lane if you are against something invis, and against invis heroes buy dust or let your team buy dust or something. Dont counterward. just try to build items, and build support items... Mek, Drums, Urn, Medallion, just a simple bracer... dont save up 1k gold for manaboots, buy brown boots, buy a ~600 gold cheap parts item (bracer, urn, headdress) then finish manaboots then build you cheap item into mek/drums even pipe. if it was urn, start building your first "bigger" item now. only build mek if you can finish before min20-22. get force staff after your finished boots + first bigger item. keep up observers but for now, forget sentries... you need items. i do the same mistake a lot, thinking im pro i can do without items. no i cant. you cant its obvious from your stats. :D so buy items
do it for some games, you will feel the difference and can decide what is more important in that particular game
^regarding CM skill build
while you are right in saying more right clicks on hero trapped will do more damage, in the early game (when CM is most effective) your lane partner won't be attacking particularly hard or fast
Let's say you have 2 levels in W, 2 in E, and are debating what to get for your 5th skill point
If you get one more level in W you get no extra damage from the spell (due to the damage intervals), with only a 0.5 second increase in duration (let's say that gives your lane partner time to get 2 extra auto attacks off for around 100 damage, maximum)
By substituting a third point in W, for one point in Q gives you +100 damage from the spell, as well as a 3.5 second, 30% movespeed slow during which time you can get off several more auto attacks because you're moving faster than them. Considering the enemy also has attack speed slowed by 20%, means your lane partner will be safer to attack the enemy, as they'll take less damage back
^^ This.
Soultrap. Why are you talking about BKB and TPing out? We are talking about the first 5 minutes of the game. This is when CM is really effective. You are worried about mana? 3 points in E gives you +4 mana per second and 2 per second for your team. That is +200% mana/s for some people.
Your job as a ranged support with great harass spells is to harass and make it as easy as possible for your lane partner to farm. You can make that really easy by helping him take out an opponent. He gets 250+gold for that, which is around 2 creep waves by the time a couple are denied.
The times you have money for BKB and Hex are times that you have won the game early. You need to start making an impact earlier on. You don't need to ward/counter ward all the time if you can see 5 people on the map.
If you are playing with smart people they will buy wards for you. It is much easier for them to get last hits and guaranteed gold than you to try and last hit and neither of you get gold. Your job is to make it easy for the carry to get the last hits safely and not die.
-- You not counting right clicks, more time enemy stands still - more right clicks you can land on him.
How many right clicks can you land in 1 second early game? CM's attack time is about 1.3s at this point of the game and not many players will be below the 1s barrier. 100 extra damage from a Q and a slow, and a reduced attack speed do way more than 2 right clicks.
^thats what i was saying, dont know if it was clear or not
@Vaeldiithia
When I place wards, I hope my teammates will pay attention to this extra vision. While you beforehand decided that they not worth your support.
@Knight Of End
There are many factors. And it depends on what you want to achieve.
1) if you want to kill enemy hero, then you are right, CM definitely needs both nukes, and third point in Frostbite nearly worthless.
2) if you want to harass then maxing Frostbite is better, because you need to cast it repeatedly and your mana is not infinite (best if you Frostbite enemy hero when he is about to lasthit creep)
3) if you against a trilane, range matters, if you attempt to close in for Frostbite, you may find yourself in dangerous position. In this case you may want to max Crystal Nova and stay away.
But this is just my newbish thoughts...
@djgandy
Where have you seen carries buying wards for Crystal Maiden? What region you play in? Or should I ask - what planet? =)
^ CM is hard carry, needs to farm her midas in under 7 minutes ;)