Early - Radiant
Late - Dire
Its a terrible match up and picking. A tri-stun lane will wreck a PL and KotL but its a pretty dick tri-lane and with 2x melee chances of getting a kill are slim if the PL is good.
Viper wrecks DS big time.
How much does the trilane-swing into the jungle for the Doom? Storm will do better early game and be able to leave the mid a lot earlier than the Razor
There is a lot to consider and no sure winner. Not really who is played but how it is played.
There's no late to be won. Doom jungle is fucking useless since there's not enough killing potential to fight that trilane. Viper will farm a Mek, Storm an Orchid, and they will steamroll over all Dire's towers before min 25. By that time Radiant will have over 10k gold advantage while PL has like Treads Diffusal. gg.
@havoc: not hard to kill the PL: WD stun has long range, just drop a sentry and stun him 3 times + Double Edge = easy kill
Razor doesn't crush Storm, we are assuming equal skill levels on both teams, otherwise it's just pointless to discuss anything
PL will have a hard time to no farming at all. He can only do it near or beyond tower.
Radiant push? one Kotl blast almost enough to kill creep wave hp after some levels.
Razor - Storm laning phase is a tie.
Viper - Dark Seer hmm this one I don't know. Viper will surely win the lane but are Dark Seer Ion shells enough for him to farm?
Doom jungle - why is this being overlooked? he will be very important during mid game
zero point of discussion, even under the assumption of equally skilled players on both sides, first of all thats nearly impossible, its either storm rape razor or razor rapes storm and one mid snowballs, others depends on alot on team play etc etc
Assuming high skill levels (say over 4k MMR, top 1% players)
Viper vs DS on viper safelane should be an even lane + eventually advantage DS from using ion shell on stacked camps.
Mid Storm vs Razor, cs will favor Razor, rune control favors storm. Both have killing power early if someone screws up or there is a gank. Rotation to mid is much easier for storms team. I say Storm probably wins the lane. Storm reaches 6 and can immediately begin taking apart the Dire lanes. Razor can't do much with any advantage he happens to gain unless he gets a lucky rune and the enemy fails to see him rotate.
Centaur, Witch Doctor, OM aggressive tri vs PL + KotL + Jungle Doom
At level 1,2 PL can't farm control to Radient... but once Kotl + PL reach level 3 Pl can farm with lance and when they reach level 5 PL + KotL will dominate this lane. I have seen many attempts to aggressive tri-lane against PL + KotL in pro games with all sorts of nice stun combinations, PL + KotL always win the lane. PL will not be able to farm early but if PL + KotL just play defensively and get their first few levels up the tri-lane will have to leave the lane or never level up properly. Aggressive Tri-lanes are really terrible against a defensive lane with KotL + nuker. At lower skill levels people get impatient and try to farm with PL early and feed kills to the stuns... but that really is not what happens at the higher skill levels. The aggressive tri-lane will get underleveled and PL will catch up on farm mid game. So many times Navi tried to draft like this an lost... so many back when PL + KotL was popular.
Radient instead should put DS against PL+ KotL and tri-lane against the Viper, roaming out of the tri-lane to gank often.
dire win cause illuminate rapes their tri, also they have a doom jungle and razor wins mid
only lane radiant wins is safelane viper
Darkseer gets stomped by Viper, Relentless -
Toxic skin, means that anytime viper wishes, he can do 40 magic so like 30 damage to Darkseer anytime he comes into contact with an ionshell.
Radiant
- Aggressive Tri-lane: Mirana, Bane, Shadow Demon
- Mid lane: Dragon Knight
- Safe lane solo: Nature's Prophet
Dire
- Defensive Tri-lane: Lifestealer, Visage, Rhasta
- Mid lane: Storm Spirit
- Off-lane: Viper
Discuss.
Mirrana, Bane, SD wins that tri-lane extremely easily. They have better offense and defense.
I've seen storm vs dk go both ways... depends on tiny moves early.
Viper vs NP should go to Viper in pubs, Admiral Bulldog level NP wins it with treant micro... but I've seen lesser pros lose to Viper with NP pretty hard.
I think overall Radiant has far better lanes because they will win the tri-lane enough to rotate and gank mid also. Visage and Shaman will be worthless through mid game because they won't get level 6 until 20 min (or more likely the gg call). Viper's farming edge on NP will mean nothing, NP will quickly make that up.
Radiant wins this by a mile.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
@ Peek
Also I would be interested to see that Viper vs DS matchup in a pro game if anyone has it. Ion shell does far more dmg than corrosive skin at all levels. I don't think viper can choose to tank it and somehow out harass DS. Can Viper quickly kill the ion shell creep and stay alive? yes, can he cs pretty well yes... but dominate the lane? I want to see an example of this happening before I will believe that.
Ion shell dmg is 30/50/70/90 dps
Corrosive Skin is 10/15/20/25 dps
How do you touch Ion shell and get back with less than 1 sec worth of dmg? I bet most pubs would take at least 2 sec of dmg before they disengaged from it. Maybe a pro viper can get in perfect moves to take 0.5 sec of dmg and back up... then it would be closer to even harass, probably still not worth doing once Ion shell is past level 1. At level 1... 4*10 > 30 so yeah maybe Viper could make it work at the start. I guess you are thinking 4*15 >50, 4*20>70, 4*25>90? If you mess up and take slightly to much dmg how do you stay in the lane as viper? DS can just bring in more regen and will be building a ton of regen anyway. Is this for a vanguard rush on viper? Or do you just walk out with 3 set of tangoes and plan to tank dmg?
storm wins. that's if dire doesn't feed early game, otherwise radiant wins. First matchup should go go radiant. Anyways who is drafting these picks. Some of the worst drafting evah.
Relentless- my opinion is opposite. I think Dark Seer is comfortable early on, then will lose advantage to Viper slowly.
Early, Viper has pathetic DPS and slow movespeed, so DS will push lane forward with creeps (with ion shell) that can run Viper down. Later on with Corrosive skin, hood and components of Mek, Viper will be much more comfortable. Since Nethertoxin and Ion shell do not help to deny but are fearsome at lasthitting, both of them will end up with good farm.
Radiant:
Top lane - Clinkz
Mid lane - DK
Bottom lane - Death Prophet
Roaming - Naga & Lesh
Dire:
Top lane - Bristleback
Mid lane - Shadow Shaman
Aggressive tri lane - Luna, Visage, Maiden
Discuss
Radiant will win imo, the dire won't stand a chance against such a strong push oriented team.
Isnt Shaman food for that roaming combo ?
Plus i think clinkz beats bristle.
Dire cant clear waves for shit, i guess they have frost nova and ethereal shock but that is it.
yeah, it will be tough for Shadow Shaman.
How about DP safe lane against an aggressive tri lane? Luna and company can take that Tier 1 tower even before DK gets his level 6
What's up guys? Who will win this match-up?
Radiant:
Aggressive Tri-lane - Rubick, Veno, Morph
Safe Lane - Centaur
Mid - Silencer
Dire:
Tri-lane - Dazzle, Slardar, Omniknight
Mid - Invoker
Off-lane - Doom
Dire has such a good early-mid game line up that one morph can't stand. Silencer mid is just shit, even if he wins the lane he is brininging nothing to the game, but i don't even think he wins against a invoker. Centaur and doom will trade farm, which depends on the item build, i still think it favours doom. Tri-lanes can go both ways, depends on the plays. I think Radiants tri-lane better, but i don't think slardar will be stopped from farming.
I think dire wins by 30-35minutes. If it goes past that mark, probably Radiant wins.
------------------------------------------------------
@Relentless, i know your post is 2 months old but, you don't consider the magic resistance from corosive skin in your math. Viper wins the harras exchange and the cs battle... by far :D
Please sign in to post comments.
Radiant
Aggressive 3 lane: Centaur, Witch Doctor, Ogre Magi
Mid lane: Storm Spirit
Safe lane: Viper
Dire
Dual lane: PL, KotL
Mid: Razor
Off lane: Dark Seer
Jungle: Doom
Discuss.