I would conclude that 52% winrate players have almost indistinguishable MMR from pros right?...
Of course really this is the #1 vs #2 phenomena again. TC's team was the highest rated in the que. The other team was 2nd highest. #1 vs #2 match is like this all the time. That is why the top players can escape the pull of 50% win rate. There is no one in the que strong enough to vs them...but matching grabs #2 ranked team anyway.
TCs teams average MMR is probably around 5500-6000...the other team in game 1 is like 4000 and game 2 is maybe 4500. Teams that strong are often in the first 3 live pages...and certainly could be the top team in the que for Captains Draft mode in USwest. But when TC's stack joins the que they are #1 and the usual top team becomes #2 and gets stomped.
abusing and exploiting captains draft to inflate winrate, intradasting yet they're not banned yet
Being the #1 team for the Limited Hero Pool que requires a lot less...maybe 3.5k would be #1 95% of the time?
Ye Relentless but seriosly if that work like that ..that`s just OMG. Valve need big new changes,is better to w8 in queue for 10-20 min. and get balanced game..than games like this wtf. I can be too 75% win rate and top 50 if I have 4 friend like TC to queue..is not even funny,balance doesn`t exist at all.
you can just report them individually depending on who you want banned, just specify the reason "they are 5 man stacking in different game modes to inflate winrate" and voila, you've served every casuals dream
The problem is it is not possible to get a fair match from the que for top players because the time is too short. Fair matches could exist for top players...they do for NEL
http://neodota.com/nel/
Here TC still has 58% winrate when he is fairly matched to teams that have 3 or more pros every game....but in the general matching giving TC a somewhat equal opponent is just impossible because the 2 dozen players in the world who are comparable to him are rarely in the que during the same 2 min window of time on the same server in the same game mode and language selection....
There should be a challenge system so the top teams could wait for real game or accept a challenge from a much lower ranked team and just pubstomp them as they choose. Currently there is no other option but to crush a far weaker team because you can't choose to stay in the que and wait for a better match....and of course the #2 ranked team of the 2 min window is screwed and has no choice to say ...um no lets play the #3 ranked team instead and have a fair game.
qopkingbar You seriosly baned wtf? How you baned,like games you play in game don`t count on dotabuff anymore?
jason (staff dotabuff dev) told me i got reported and they decided to ban me from appearing on dotabuff top rankings for 5 man stacking in different modes so yeah.
my matches still appear but the sad truth is, why am i the only one banned for this and not the ones i played with !?
yea thats exactly what happened. Once someone clicks the report button you automatically are banned, obviously. If you didnt exploit you would not get banned
It doesn't matter anyway. That account has no DBR because it started after 9 months ago. Its impossible for it to make the top50 rankings banned or not. You would have to go back to your main account to get on the highscore.
Ye qopkingbar you trolled to much with posts,and ppl get mad for that (semi-cheating) wins..and you get reported.
How does getting on top 50 change anything when everyone here knows you suck with any hero you play anyway.
only things u have 2 understand about valves dota 2 team
they are shit retards that were failures at any sort of sports in rl thats why things are the way they are
they dont understand what a team game is because none ever wanted to play with them because of how bad they were at everything and now we have retarded mute system in team game that used to mute after 2 reports / mm that matches players with 1k rating difference on same team and so on
they are so fuckin detached from real life
just checked winrates from those games Lol typical valve game pros end up on better teams than 50%wr players with 80wins |DDDDDd i bet their best player had 2 be rly good as erictams said best players decide the game not the worst
i think we should create one big thread and post there all mids like those 2 then just report it on some blog and spread word on lol/hon forums/yt dota 2 forums 2 since most people believe that match maker matches u with people on same level even L:ol
yeah what's your solution?
not get a game for the stack at all
that would clearly be a great success
no game = no unfair game
winning!
ty for your input
When a fair game for a stack does not exist....and for the top stacks this is often true..
When a fair game does not exist in the que there are 2 options:
[1] you wait until a fair match appears because different players enter the que or
[2] you accept a challenge. Both teams the high and low rated team agree to the game knowing it will be much easier for the higher ranked team to win...knowing the higher ranked team gets no rating points for winning a risks a lot for losing...knowing the lower ranked team will probably get stomped, but has a chance for the big upset win
Those are the proper options, but currently we have: Valve forces the bad match to occur just so it happens fast and they can keep the 2 min que average.
because people don't actually play solo queue
so there's only few people queuing for it = higher skill range
and the people queuing for it have somehow even worse attitudes
give me a reason why anyone decent would want to queue solo MM, unless you want to stomp low level scrubs with no communication/ organization
it's like TMM it could be a good thing if people actually played it and yeah valve giving an incentive like a visible MMR could actually do that
+ fine tuning MM isn't that easy
the number of players has to dictate how fast the search range increases to have a good
like the system could be perfect but nobody would see it because at no time there are 10 solid players queuing for a game in solo MM on a server
so the system has no fucking reason to expect good players to join the queue so it starts getting shit players because there's no alternative
if it takes too long people won't play it
if the games are shit people won't play it
what's better waiting 2 min for a stomp or waiting 20 minutes to still stomp or to never find a match?
20 for stomp
wish i hd proper skills to create app that would ban steam ids and then disconnect me from games with banned players #heavenonearth
I solo que when:
[1] I really want to play but no one is available to play with
[2] I just won 7 or 8 games in a row and then started losing and I don't want to hurt my friends with the inevitable losing streak so into solo que...
People in solo que tend to be those with bad communication and less ability to play as a team...don't have friends to play with because of that, or just people addicted to playing dota so they have to play when friends are not available. But it does prevent me from getting put on a team with a stack of 4 bad players who then get pullled up into Very High and loses every fight because they are used to playing against other bad players....then they all get shadow blade and are shocked when true sight is used. They keep typing things like "wtf dust?" or "how can they see me? I clicked my sb!!!"...anyway I often would rather have 4 random anti-social people or dota addicts than the team of bads constantly feeding and saying "lol, I died again guys".
It's nice for people to play dota together badly. It always seems like they are having fun failing...but I don't want to be with them while they do it. So I play solo que. Solo que will give me a nice mix of good and bad players and it' possible to win if I can just cause the enemy team's feeders to die more and sooner. I've probably played over half of my games with no one on my team that I know. Approximately the first 500 games I did solo on purpose just for practice and randomed a hero every time to get used to dota 2 animations and mechanics.
Still no one plays team matching...I think because it is to hard to find a team. It's about a ratio of 1000 regular matching to 1 team matching games any time you check live games. I am working on developing a way to find teams easily...most likely I will finish it and the next day Valve will change something to block it and release their own...but who know maybe they won't really have a good system for it done for 2 more years so I may as well just do it.
^ wont surprise me if they cockblock you the very next patch especially if you attach any stats to players ^^ hopefully your project wont fail due to valve devs
you know nothing will balance this game. people don't take into consideration the human aspect of dota. people like to believe that since everyone has roughly the same elo the game should be balanced. some people may just be playing fucked.up, tired, or pissed off and that could affect your gameplay. honestly most games are not balanced at all, sometimes you may be the best player or worst player on the team. and face it, not everyone plays 100% all the time
valve is at fault 100%
no fun/casual/srs mode + lack of mmr brackets + lack of visible rating etc i cant even count how many times people went for retarded picks just because they felt like playing x
i even remember one guy that told me he went mid to test his new hook for pudge
matchmaking isn't as bad as its reputation
while most of the people would still complain if the matchmaking was flawless there's some things that really aren't working
like the smurf detection is beyond terrible
people can maintain high MMR while fucking up several games in a row with a low number of games
people not giving a shit about winning and thus playing shit heroes is because there's no incentive to get a high MMR whatsoever
while losing actually makes your next games easier
I mean valve actually shut down DBR because they think it's a shit system and because they feel that their system is still shit too so they won't implement any kind of visible MMR until that's sorted out
Yeah, the matching is not all bad. In fact it is a huge improvement over what was available for dota 1. You can tell that the vast majority of people are at least getting a fair chance to win some games because everyone but the very best are so close to 50% win rate.
But its been well over 2 years of dota 2 now and there are so many things that could easily be improved about the matching system that are not changed. Valve has simply not made it a priority to get past the level of ok matching for most people most of the time...they seem to have no incentive to go for excellence so they are permanently stuck at mediocre.
@ sigh, while there is a large human aspect to the game...a 4k MMR player who is drunk is still better than a 3k MMR player having his record game. There is no way you should ever put them on the same team. The skill gaps in the games are far to large...When you look at the tMMR it becomes painfully obvious. If a 5k team plays a 4k team, a 4k vs 3k, 3k vs 2k, etc...these are always massacres 20-2 stomps. But in regular matching those players will be matched together. They will just put an extra feeder on the team of the best player and call it "fair".
It's not that lopsided games cannot happen with well matched teams...of course a game can still snowball. But if you put the best players in a given game all on one team it would be 100% certain to win...that is bad matching. A good match should be one where you could mix up the 10 players in any combination and still come close to 50/50 on which team would win. Valves current system does a terrible job of segregating skill levels and their response to these errors is to add more and more secrecy to try to hide it.
how is valve at fault for an individuals decision to play a hero, style, role? what you want a game where everyone abides by the meta? then go play lol. all you can do each game (if you're playing seriously) is try your best. raging at others doesn't make.them.want to play better either more than likely they will decide to play worst so they don't have to deal with shit heads. the system isn't balanced, but it isn't unfair either. there will always be a chance to win, but sometimes you just have to work for it . kills don't win you games (although they help a lot) its raxing and taking ancient that does and the method you go about achieving this .
You just don't have accurate understanding of the range of skill people have on different heroes compared to the range of skills Valve is placing in games.
If you played all games on your best heroes you might go up 200 or even 300 MMR. If you played all games on your worst heroes you might go down 200 or even 300 MMR in extreme cases...But Valve regularly places a range of 1000 MMR on a team and sometimes double that.
I am not complaining about a particular game. I am not saying "oh I should have easier games and win more..." No I am saying that there are systematic errors in the way the matching is done. This is not about "how can I win more games" or "how can I not get feeders". I know how to do those things...It is not hard for me. I can 5 stack just fine and get a high winrate, and never have feeders... I can do that any time I choose to wait long enough for the people to be available. I turn down requests to play on a good stack 5 times a day. But everyone can't do what I do. There should be a system that doesn't only work for a handful of elite players.
It should be set up so you just go into the que and get a good match...and wait for it. The extremely low wait times ruin any chance of that happening. It is just foolish...really short sighted of Valve to be so desperate for uniformity and speed that they sacrifice quality.
For example wtf was this fucking game http://dotabuff.com/matches/328778710 at very high like 2/200 pages for kunka. I played weaver and I failed at start feed spec. die 2 times and probably I lost game but really how the hell is even possible to your support player at your team after 50 min. game have score 2-23?????????????? This is like worst supp I ever seen. 23 deaths wtf guys wtf is thisssssssssssssssssss world record.
Nope, that Rubic's personal record for deaths is 24...he appears to be one of those players that don't care about dieing...averages 11 deaths/game on riki somehow?
Sounds like a friend of mine, when he dies too many times in a row (4-5?), he just ends up making awful plays for the rest of the game ie, 20+ deaths. Then again it sounds like most players that have the attitude that dota games aren't allowed to be a challenge and as soon as they turn into one you should stop caring and die a bunch of times cause you as the 1-5, 1-9, 1-10 support understands that the game is over moreso than the 4-0 200 last hits by 20-25 carry.
It's really hard to NOT feed with heroes like rubick, shadow shaman. shadow demon and so on. no mobility. they have disables but it's not enough. They will most likely die first in fights even if they try to stand a bit further. They will be squishy no matter how many bracers they get. But I think that an average, good player should never go more than 15 deaths. force staff and ghost scepter may help if the game goes later.
^ not true especially on pubs
only thing u have to do is care about living and project what enemy is most likely doing at x point in time
supports shouldnt die more than 3/4 times outside of big team fights ESPECIALLY in pubs
but its dota 2 none cares about stats thanks to valve so it is what it is
you get rubick with 20deaths
HeLL_RAISeR sry but you are not right ` good player should never go more than 15 deaths with supp` ? LOL , 15? max 7-8 in a long game. 15 is fucking too much is almost same shit as 22. Supports with 10+ deaths usually losing games by themselfs. It`s easy to not die much even with sd or shadow shaman you just need to use your brain.
Hahaha what kind of loser you are,do you even have a life?Or your trolling is best what you do? Yes I lost that game with weaver cos my self , so what = )
nah i actually think you are right
you played really well within your own capabilities
some people just can't get better no matter how hard they try
fucking rubick player ruining your games
condolences
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Just checked randomly last Liquid`TC game and I was shocked how much unbalanced games he plays.
Can you guys believe this balance? http://dotabuff.com/matches/327695834 , http://dotabuff.com/matches/327674199 LMAO! :D