Solo mid isn't a bad option though, but only when your team don't have any solo mid hero which most of the time there is. Some heroes need to solo mid and since doom can actually jungling well, so why not?
Previously I do focus on level death too, thinking of how OP it's with the 500 damage in early game but then it's hard for you to actually execute it because of doom is having a very low mana pool, and the cd is quite long as a harassing skill. And thus, most of the players are actually choose to maxing up the second skill first before going to lvl death. The regen and bonus movement would help you more in the early game stage, and AOE damage too.
I don't think that doom can be a hard carry, the most he can be a semi carry only. Of course he can farm as fast as alchemist/furion but they can only carrying mid game. If he were to fight 6 slot against those real hard carries, he still stand no chance.
luffyganster!!!!!:
i think your build is viable. i used to play doom that way too. once my opponent hits lv 5 they can no longer stay in lane because of doom's nuke. however it is usually very difficult to look at levels and gank heroes with the level multiplier. in high levels of play your opponents don't appear constantly on the map for more than 1 min asking you to gank them. moreover it is hardly spammable because of doom's low mana pool. doom+scorched earth+normal attacks is a better way to gank heroes in my experience
yeah, this skill built really depends on what kind of opponents u meet. I just want to tell others doom is a hero who can solo mid. Actually, I used doom a lot in high skill bracket ( not very high :) Im not pro enough) if your supports can give u a very good sight, its very efficient when u gank other two lines( when u got level 7, heroes in other lanes are often level 5, so one lvl death + doom equals a kill). I try to play heroes in different skill builds and items, thats the fun of dota right?
for the problem of mana, I don;t think its a problem, cause u have a bottle, thats the reason why I said depends on your opponents and teammates, if your teammates give you a good sight. take a rune and drink bottle and try to use your skill as efficiently as possible, mana isn't a problem.
meow:
then answer me, what do you do when you are solo mid against a doom and you are lv 5 and he has lvl 2 lvl death. you go into the lane and he nukes you once and you instantly go from full health to 20% health. what do you do?
Doom is a god mid-late game. He sucks at mid because he can't handle any aggression at all, even with Stout/RoB or something you are taking a shit load of damage, and you don't have any kind of spammable nuke to abuse bottle crow to farm or something. Compared to say, a Magnus who has high armor and can spam Shockwave and ends up doing fairly well. The other issue is that there is such a small window for you to be effective, you NEED to kill them at a particular point, otherwise you are just another shit hero that gave the enemy free farm while your team got a shit hero in return. His mana is a big issue too, personally I don't put more than 1 point into until level 12 because you quite simply cannot handle its mana requirements unless you build Arcane Boots..
Doom is effective in the jungle because its fairly safe, assuming the enemy is running a solo offlane hero so you are left alone, and you can go for kills as you desire with either the trap neut spell or Doom when it comes online. Once you get Midas your GPM/XPM goes ballistic, and with Lothars up in the next few minutes + Alpha Wolf creep, your break damage from lothars + Doom is enough to secure a lot of kills, and you will get another few attacks off with Phase + W.
I play Doom as a "utility" carry. Essentially I rice up and build up items which support not only my capabilities, but also allows for my team to deal with difficult heroes with ease. Hex is up by 20-22 minutes, earlier with more kills, later with any deaths, can be significantly earlier if you get a satyr as your first creep, and when you are popping Doom and Hex in a fight, its pretty difficult to go wrong unless you have a team of shitbads, this item also lets you spam LVL Death quite freely. I then build up AC, with both puts your DPS through the fucking roof (with alpha wolf eaten), I mean legit you drop heroes so quick its not even funny, and at the same time you get yourself some much needed armor and a decent aura for the team. Ethereal Blade, HH, Abyssal, Dagon and Shivas are all viable luxuries, ultimately it depends on the game.
The most important thing is shutting down heroes at the right time. Chances are if you are playing Doom in the jungle, the enemy carry is getting free farm, which isn't a problem. What is a problem, is if you don't get active when your ultimate is up and you have Lothars, this is a crucial stage where you need to kill, or intimidate your opponents movement.
Doom mid, lulz.
i play doom as a hardcarry, either it fails completely or it rapes. It usually depends on my team, if they feed like hell or not. I dont think doom is a good support, thats why i never play him as one.
And sending doom mid is the most retarded thing ever. Like srsly, he has no real nuke, he is melee, he has 0 basearmor and is a terrible ganker. Yes he can doom people but thats about it, the manacost and cooldown makes him a completely shitty midhero.
Srsly op, you need to learn the game more.
Oddly, I have recently been testing doom out with a shadowblade/dagon. http://dotabuff.com/matches/320636533
Reason for this is if you doom someone you can quick dagon to ensure a kill without you chasing them for hours trying to finish them off. Shadowblade hit > Doom > Lvl Death > Dagon then they will go down much quicker using the dagon as a finishing move.
Other things that I have tried include the support doom which seemed like it should go well but sadly while you can item support doom doesn't really offer anything to the team to make him a viable support or solo mid and you will end up losing to much better mids.
Funny, everytime I see your arrogant looking comments I just think to myself how sad this community is becoming. LVL Death is a very powerful spell and I usually surprise people so badly because they think they know everything while in fact they're just big mouths like you meow. Yes I also go mid.
And before you start talking about normal bracket and how everybody is shit there, let's just say that I've played A LOT of high bracket games last month, together with a very few very high bracket ones and just like I suspected - people are just more arrogant at higher brackets, skill wise nowhere as special as you claimed.
Very funny indeed. Now when I play in higher brackets as well I can see that all the shit you tried to sell me before about it was all your ego talking. Turns out it's all just a big hype.
can someone tldr this thread
since when everyone wants 2 be like relentless?
OP says Doom is good mid and since of course all players here are better than all the other players (dafuq?) they say Doom mid sucks and jungle is better.
In summary, he is a shit mid hero, he needs to be in the jungle, and you build him as a utility (semi-carry) by fucking with the other team, as opposed to trying to be a right click carry. Phase + Midas + Lothars -> Hex/Orchid -> AC/Shivas/Dagon5/Ethereal/HH/Abyssal, possibly picking up other items like vlads/pipe if no one else is capable of doing so. I can imagine there is a place for Shivas/Refresher, but I've never needed it.
^
http://dotabuff.com/matches/285614444
srsly he works fine as tank/hardcarry. If you get wolves he hits like a truck.
' "normal bracket players are just as good as front page players" shit '
Sorry meow, you are again twisting my words(as I have never said that) - you are nothing more than a liar and I couldn't care less what this forum thinks of me :D The forum is full of arrogant assholes who think they're someone because they play in this or that bracket :D
In that thread everyone told me I would get stomped in higher brackets - when I finally reached higher brackets, well guess what - I didn't get stomped at all - in fact I laughed how bad people were, not as bad as normal brackets of course but still very, very bad - the only difference was the level of arrogance and the likelihood of playing vs a stacked team.
You are so full of yourself and you think you are someone because you play in this or that bracket - all of the people here think that. People like you actually destroy this game and the community with such immature behavior and super high ego. I bet you have nothing special going in your miserable life so you come here and seek attention from other fools like you so you can feel cool.
Such a pathetic human being.
7 Years ago gaming communities were much more civilized and friendlier and today every fool acts tough on the internet because they're too lazy to do anything in their lives. How sad.
Yes, 'cool story' is the only argument you can think of, given the fact that I have assessed the situation accurately. As for replays, all you guys did was pick up my worst game on the page and analyzed it while I played yolo style from minute 1. Sorry but watching replays isn't going to give you the accurate information about anyone.
'and how your team is shit.'
Again, lying, again. You should just stop twisting my words. I told you people are bad in every bracket, which is quite correct. The phrase 'my team' was never mentioned here.
Your confidence means nothing to me. I was once a part of a gaming community at a pretty high level at a different game and I've seen people like you. They thought they were God's gift to the game, in the end most of them quit the game in disgrace while others turned out to be frauds.
Asking me for 1on1 just proves the point about you, dota is a team game, not an individuals game. A player of your super high skill level you claim to have should be able to understand that.
See how pathetic you are - all your arguments to my post were 'cool story and well, you're shit' - that's why you are a failure in real life. You are too ignorant and spoiled and think that you are the greatest... sorry, newsflash - you ain't even close. Just a bug waiting to get squashed when you return to the real world.
PS - I also remember having a similar chat about higher brackets, now when I got there and saw first hand that I was right - you again try to negate the obvious and make yourself look good. What a loser.
>>Asking me for 1on1 just proves the point about you, dota is a team game, not an individuals game.
huehuehuehue
All I hear is excuses.
Well hello, weren't you the guy who tried to convince me how much better the higher brackets are at my topic? Damm, you are.
All I see is nerds like you refreshing every topic on this forum so you can post and feel important.
OH and you play vh bracket as well! Must be good.
Oh wait
The Terrible
The Terrible
Warlock
Warlock 19 12 13 32 15.8k 37 2 276 231
Mekansm
Bracer
Town Portal Scroll
Oblivion Staff
Boots of Speed
Your warlock in one of your latest games. Game lasted 1 hour and 10 minutes. That's all you managed to collect. No scepter and refresher. Case closed.
You truly are terrible with such a build. No idea what you are doing in vh bracket. See I don't need to see replay or anything else when I can already see by your items how bad you are. Warlock is one of those heroes whose build isn't flexible at all. It's just 2 items and the game is won with a half decent team.
I also play doom as a hard carry/tank. The problem is his dmg is so dependant on hellfire aoe early because his auto attack is pathetic, and he has really low armor. Almost all your damage early is from hellfire and when hellfire is on cooldown he's very squishy early. Assault curiass solves these issues, but he still needs a lot to carry well. He's great on a team that has supports with ranged slows. CM is a perfect support for him, mana regen buff, big slow, lets doom do his thing. But for me he's typically "ready" to carry e a lot later than other jungle type carrys. Lifestealer goes jungle, gets treads and armlet by level ~9 and 12 mins in and he can fight anyone at that point. Alch gets a shadow blade and is ready to gank, even ursa jungle, get vlads, kill rosh, gank time. Doom it's like ok I got phase boots and shadow blade, oh this guy still just ran away from my pathetic auto attack. I like doom I just think there are better choices. I'll play him if he's available in SD or RD and I want to carry jungle and lifestealer isn't available. In all pick, there's better choices. Though his doom is really awesome for killing anti mage, queen of pain and storm.
>Case closed
If only you actually watched the game and plays.
I was one of the factor that made the team win. I had quick meka, and then was getting killed, while my team was raping them.
They still focused me 60 minutes in, I even did naga song evasion last fight we had.
Not to mention that my K+A was the highest in the game. Boy, you must be on acid if you don't think highest K+A made big difference in a game.
So good job detective dipshit.
Still 1x1 with you, but excuses keep coming.
That game would have been over in 40minutes if you played warlock the way how you are supposed to play him. The factor that won you the game was a full build davion and a decent sylla.
They had ONE carry, and even that one was no match for your other carries.
Highest K+A.....
............................................
won't even comment that.
You're lucky they didn't have a stronger carry like spectre, naix or gyro. Their team was almost perfect. They had billions of disablers and initiators, where some even played semi carries.
Also 'I was one of the factor that made the team win. I had quick meka, and then was getting killed, while my team was raping them. '
That's a contradiction. You claim you made the team win while you just said you were getting killed while YOUR TEAM did all the job.
Good one. Also you had quick meka? Good job. You think meka is what won this game? :D You have Pudge, Davion, Timber and Sylla - Those heroes have either huge hp and regen or huge armor. You really think a FREAKING MEKA RUSH was worth it :xd
Why do you think they focused you for 60 minutes? Because they know that if you get even one of the 2 core items the game would become increasingly difficult.
What your team needed was more disabling and nuke damage. Scepter and refresher would have done exactly that.
Sure you made a difference in this game. You prolonged the game for over an hour with your shitness.
Can't believe how ignorant you can be. Rushing meka on warlock in a team full of high STR heroes with high regen potential. Not having additional disables when you need it. Playing for over an hour and having no items at all even though you have 16k gold. Claiming you have made a significant difference because of high A number.... So terrible I cannot even begin to describe it.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
The nerdrage is very high in this thread. ^
Also, in a game with 3 item dependent heroes, you don't take away their farm to build 2 items which sum 9.5k gold with a support, specially if you are the ONLY support in the team, you are blaming him for playing Warlock the way he should have been played in that game. Warlock's teamfight presence isn't mitigated by a lack of items. DK, LD, Timbersaw and arguably Pudge's too are.
Granted...Timbersaw somehow fed all game, but I can only imagine how much the entire team would have fed too if he had tried to rush the Aghanims + Refresher combo.
Lol @Coach its established that you a baddie who loves to play the tough guy in dotabuff forums.
-----
Now granted that meow does come off as an elitest, he does have valid points regarding Doom. Play Doom mid is like carrying with slark, yes he can to a degree carry, but he does not excel in that role as well as others could.
There are better mids than doom, but there are few better junglers.
@coach
Lollll
You obviously don't understand how roles work in this game.
Or how turtling works.
But w/e bro enjoy playing in team of 5 carries because 5 carry= 5 deadly killers, right?
Yes, that's why I visit forums once a month. Because I love to play the tough guy. Right. Quite the opposite. My opposition plays the tough guys given the fact theyre active all the time and I'm not. Last time I did the thread those 2 guys were quite active and there hasn't been 3 hours since my post and I already got multiple replies - that's called forum nerding and also playing the tough guy.
Of course there are better mids than doom, that wasn't the point of the discussion though(why I prefer playing doom mid is related to his lvl death spell and the advantage of nukes in ganks followed by decent speed thanks to his 2nd). And yes, your comparison with slark is actually decent, even though with very good builds both heroes become very very strong. Doom has the ability to make any items quickly, while slark has the edge of getting more powerful the longer he lasts. In essence, both heroes can pack a few surprises.
Meow however was completely wrong about LVL Death - as in the right hands a doom who ganks a lot can bring total destruction with this spell. Especially against massive tanks.
I agree, this is a doom thread, but some people commenting here have made wrong conclusions in the past and I just couldn't resist making them look wrong, once again. Even though most of the people here are still ignorant.
As for Zano... well you are wrong, sorry. First an early rush makes a huge impact in ganks(especially vs a team like this, they could have won easily if they just pushed all the time). Second, I wasn't even talking about him rushing anything. The game lasted for more than an hour. He has more than 15k gold. As you stated he needs 9.5k gold. 500 more for boots. The rest is for supporting. So I have no clue what he wasted so much of his gold for. He completely failed with meka as well. If you still want to talk about mega uber warlock support which again has soo much gold anyway that he could have built anything.... a pipe was a much better choice than meka.
In essence, mr very high bracket supah high skilled showed his lack of understanding the basics of the game.
The terrible just stop it please. Your warlock is just bad. You had over ONE hour. You had 15K gold. You made no core items. You made WRONG supporting items. You have been proven wrong many times. Deal with the fact that it doesn't mean anything that you play in very high bracket.
^Because surviving early teamfights when we have more carries than them is less important. Warding also doesn't matter, should have rushed refresher.
You obviously don't understand hard support role. The point of hard support is to contribute to the game, while spending most of the gold on consumables. I contributed to my team a lot, even while being 5th role.
I know, being altruistic and buying items that help you team looks like madness to you, but its ok, one day you will hit very high too.
You are just mad kiddo, and everyone can see it. You might even have a decent talent but with shitty attitude like this you wont get far.
Once again, I didn't urge you on rushing(which is the correct move by the way)
You do know that the fact they had a diffusal blade among their items potentially made your ulti useless?
You do know you had 1 hour to do something?
You do know that a pipe was a better choice than meka because they nuked you and your team doesn't have a bkb early?
You do know that with a 15k gold you have 5000 gold for wards and shit if you go scep/Refresh?
You do know I have already played a few games in vh and the sad part was, I didn't even realize anything was much different than high?
You do know surviving teamfights has no connection to scep/refres? - a warlock can support quite well without meka
You do know that if you had what I told you, the game would be a 100% win? This way you depended on their inability to push and allow sylla and davion to go full build while they have no effective carries? In essence, they failed.
You do know that I don't have high dreams here like other assholes around here because I've already been through all that high crap in the other games and I know for a fact that it's a waste of time? - so I don't care about getting far. I just enjoy being right.
You do know that your warlock support has no arcane boots in over an hour? How about that?
Sure, you might not have been totally useless - however you did not play the hero in the most optimal way. As I stated, it wasn't even the most sub-optimal play( the support version ) because of all the very good things I pointed out.
All these questions - that's your homework right there.
Have you watched the game? You obviously haven't. If you do most of the questions will be answered.
We turtled for good 30 minutes. There was no farm to be had, except for our 2 carries. In fact, we couldn't go out far because we will get caught out.
Your analysis is nice and all, but this is not spherical game in a vacuum. This problem happens again- you don't understand roles. I did good job early game, ensuring that they wont snowball us (which they almost did). Then all I had to do is drop golem and first spell every fight. This is not normal game, you can't just go and farm all your items without sacrificing part of your team. Especially when they have cent-naga-SB.
You must be that asshole that farms all game as support, leaving only 2 lanes for carries. GJ on understanding how to play in a team.
Its funny that even though you are so AWESOME and much better than SCUM on this forum, you still manage to barely get into high game with your cute stack of 3.
It's the stack that brought me higher - exactly what I predicted in my topic a month ago. Controlled team - better team - better chance of winning - better chance of fighting vs noob mm - which is even more flawed now as you can see for yourself. I told you what Valve was doing. Hiding. They hid their incompetence with this new patch. I was right. Again.
If you turtled means you weren't even spending money on wards because you can't even set them up. With 2 golems a defense would have been ridiculously easy. And I'm surprised that they didn't snowball you to the end because you had no items. And timber fed. And your 2 carries were super late only. And they had good early game combo. A scepter rush would be much more useful because you could change the balance with just 4k gold. A davion/sylla need twice as much to start things off vs the combo's you described. You are right. I didn't watch the game and I am probably missing a few things. However it doesn't change the fact that you STILL had nothing the other 30 minutes of the game. And many more things. And don't even think that you held them with your meka.... they just fucked up lol.....
I am the asshole that gets scepter 15-25mins and refresher 10 to 15 minutes later and wins the game unless our lanes get splitpushed because of high ulti cd. In essence, I'm the one holding the entire team alone because mine is mostly useless because people cannot think outside the box. And by doing that I don't even steal significant farm from carries.
Yea, I am much better than most of the people here and I don't even care whether I'm better or not. Because this game isn't my life unlike for many here.
This game had the potential to be one of the best. To completely sweep away LoL and HoN - but Valve managed to fail so miserably that they can't even make a half decent MM and it's been like what? 3 years? Now you can't even see what bracket you are in unless you do some shit through searches w/e... they're going deeper into hiding, just like I predicted. And once again, the bracket thing is the most stupidest thing ever. Not only it is completely unbalanced - it also creates arrogant and ignorant fucks like meow who feel HONORED and SPECIAL when they see match type - vh bracket. That's why Valve removed it now. To reduce the flame.
I will never understand why they simply can't make ELO ratings public and balance the games within 100-150 ELO range at best. It is so simple.
good job. Good thing being superior players keeps you in normal so I don't have to deal with people playing better than me (i.e you) So good job, keep it coming then.
no they didn't remove it to keep people from flaming
they removed it because people used it to measure skill levels which it was never intended for and people are too stupid to understand what it actually means
you also have no fucking idea how matchmaking works and you don't understand that giving you concrete numbers to your MMR automatically reveals the way MMR is calculated and thereby makes people abuse its flaws/weaknesses
you can actually play ixdl or ngage and if you are a decent player you will have higher skilled people in public MM on average and that by a large margin
everyone is free to create his own league with a rating system of his choice and if matchmaking was so terrible people would actually go and play in such leagues
you are actually crying that the brackets are stupid and they don't mean shit but then you get upset that they remove/limit their visibility
It's funny how the guy who says "this game isn't my life unlike for many here" goes into an insane discussion about how a hero was used in a game he didn't participate or even watch.
Gg.com coach is back ladies and gentleman. Life on forums is gonna get exciting the next few days.
Doom should just jungle, end of story. His low armor and lack of decent starting abilities make him horrible in any lane. He is more based around what items you build after the 6 minute mark, hand of midas is great for Doom and I think it should be rushed regardless.
He is an alright carry, but can still be kited easily. He makes a great tank if you go mek and armor build due to his insanely good hp regen, however I prefer getting items that allow easy kills vs 1 v 1. Necro i find is best for that as it gives an excellent mana pool and the warriors do huge amounts of damage to enemies as well as buildings.
Lol Coaches argument is as follows:
I'm the best(speaking as coach), and if I'm not playing in VH then clearly VH is full of baddies.
Lol you play in the kiddie bracket coach, your terribad, even if you smurf you still cant make it into VH.
I can carry 4 baddies on a smurf into VH in just 5 games.
You say you don't care about the opinion of the forum, then why do you come here? Cause clearly no one cares about your opinion, so its mutual, why don't you take your classy self on down to normal bracket and try and learn a thing or two.
I SAY GOOD DAY SIR!
/coach
You are also the asshole with a 50% win rate despite playing in the normal bracket, and dual queuing a lot as well. No your opinions are not relevant to a discussion like this. Things which work in the normal bracket don't always work as well in VH, and the sad thing here is that mid doom sucks balls even in theory. Shut the fuck up.
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I know different people have different opinion on the positioning of doom. I saw many people chose to jungle and make doom be a hard carry. However, In my opinion, the quintessential skill of doom is level death. if u r a mid solo doom and know how to make good use of the level death, doom can be a terrific ganker, especially to those mages, doom could be their doom! Ok, lets down to the details, how to build the skill of doom? If you solo fragile heroes in the mid, level 1 should be "Devour", because as we know, doom is a melee heroes, so its not easy for doom to get many hits at the beginning. at this situation, "Devour" can help u to get enough money at the beginning ( Usually 4 or 5 minutes to get a bottle). then level 2 and level 3 should be "Scorched Earth". reasons for this skill built is that we must guarantee that we move fast enough to chase our preys and get enough Hp restored. then level 4 and level 5 u should get two level lvl death( we can get damage bonus when the level of enemy is multiples of 5). when u r level 5, the key item is the bottle( u should get it, because if u don't have bottle, u haven't enough mana to make your combo) now its time to kill, when u r level 5, your enemy in mid should be also level 5( I mean no death before level 5). take the sniper as a example, first u should give him a lvl death, which will result 1/3 Hp reduced. wait! be patient!, if u just rush to him, u can't kill him. waiting the CD of lvl death, after you got another lvl death, rush to him with the skill of scorched earth, and use lvl death to him and keep chasing him until u got another lvl death then your enemy is dead( don;t forget to drink bottle, cause, at the beginning, your mana is only enough to use 1 scorched earth and 1 lvl death). I will continue tomorrow. :)