Its funny, but I got to 53% WR playing solo SUPPORT heroes. So idk about stacks and whats not, anyone with hands growing from the right place can at least get to high MM. If in doubt-pick treant @ win games.
And by carry you I meant they had higher amount of kills+ assist. Obviously if you have high amount of kill, but u are carry, and u get outcarried by someone in ur team> u get carried, because without that second person who knows how the game would go.
Buying only headdress is cool. Everyone in team thinks you are going for meka, so they don't buy it and then you buy something else and they die a little inside.
If you understood anything in this game Tractatus you would understand that a 2melee lane vs 2 ranged with 3 stuns is one of the worst possible lanes you can get. Your thinking is pretty much the definition of a BAD player.
@The Terrible Then you were very, very lucky. I gave you above the links of my last 9 loses, 7 got fucked up by others - how about that? You can't do anything with a support if the carry in the team sucks. And in my team carries almost always suck. And very bad reasoning about who carries.
@Wolfgang - yea I adapted in the game with medusa by managing to do something later on. As for the 7 losses above... can't adapt playing 4on5 with 2 noobs. Not possible.
@Meow you are really crazy with your generalism about normal bracket :D 8.0KDA and 75%winrate... did you even LOOK at the links I gave? What an ignorant egoistic jackass. Seriously.
@Sam No, he watches them, I just took a look at the score board of one of his last games and analyzed his supah high bracket.
Sometimes Valve is mean and puts people who deserve very very very high into normal, it happens, just like they put noobs like the rest who deserve normal into very high... im with you coach!!! /sarcasmn
Still complaining about the lane and insulting other people. I could have easily won it if I were in that lane. Don't give excuses for making shit choices like walking up to take a last hit when your entire creep wave is dead. You played extremely poorly and that's why you lost the lane, stop blaming the whole world but yourself. Adapted in the game? You had virtually zero impact early-mid, your team basically won the fights with clutch Stone Gazes, you didn't even do shit. I have already shown you so many reasons why you belong to the normal tier, but you refuse to accept any of them. Good day to you. I'm out, no need to prove myself to scum like you, just here to tell you why you suck (and maybe one day you realize it and begin to improve).
I wasn't lucky. I stepped up my game. I learned proper support, with all the warding, map control, smoke ganks. Double stacks? fuck yeah. Stacking after there is still 1 ranged creep left? No problem. There is so many techniques you have to learn as a support to be truly efficient. Same goes for every role, but support is the most theory-intense role.
Youd be surprised how many people will follow you if you smoke and ping and say go gank. It works 95% of the times. Did I had bad players? Yes. Did enemies had bad players? sure. But its up to you how well you do in pubs. Team is disorganized? Say go gank, go kill or back go farm, some people just need a little push to do the right thing. Team has no map control? Put up all 4 wards and actively ping out enemies that might be coming for gank or enemies that might be vulnerable.
It is luck sometimes, but to get above 50% you will REALLY need to put effort into this game.
You were lucky if you soloed supports and got through. :D Lucky that you had carries who didn't have bad builds. A drow who has MOM and HOD is bad and there is nothing you can do to make him play better. Simple as that.
It doesn0t matter about wnning or losing that lane Zenoth. The lane was simply WRONG cause of a fucker who went mid and shouldn't have. Thats a handicap.
Didn't say denying was waste of time just that I can't be bothered vs noobs. Also yea if you really think I'm bad you're really crazy :)
Also you can't really show me much when you play a void with only 1 dps item :XD No wonder you lost that game SayRay. Oh I forgot, you are high bracket so you MUST BE GOOD :)
^Read my post again. It doesn't matter how brain dead your carry is, if you gank, and do your best- your going to have more than 50% wirnate. Why? Because enemies going to have brain dead carries too, but dead brain with support>same without, simple as that.
@coach
I won 12 out of 15 Io games.
4 out of 6 naga games.
2 out of 3 visage games.
Are you sure about what you say? yeah my number of matches is a bit little to judge with but still, supports win games. and those shitty carries are carried.
The fact is. there are lots of noobs playing in high and Vhigh brackets. there's an exact same chance that inappropriate players will be put in your team as in your enemy team. but wait, you have 4 allies and 5 enemies. So if you're better than anyone, you should be getting at least 55% win rate after lots of games. otherwise, just admit that you are not better than an average player at your rate.
Protip: When people give you suggestions to improve, ignoring them and/or telling them that they're wrong will not help you improve. Looking at your games, you have quite a ways to improve and are currently matched in the correct bracket.
Unlike some people here Dota2 isn't my life Zenoth. My skill doesn't depend on the bracket sorry. You keep talking about a flawed MM system and I'll keep telling you that if the system was good, ELO would be public :) So logical.
As for hellraiser.
Io 17/5 playing vs 4/14 3/13 1/13 and 3/12. Entire opponent team sucks.
Io 1/7 you have clinkz 21/4 and 12/4 lancer in your team. Also you have divine rapier among your items(if you took it from them then the team was really stupid as well). Lion and Rubick also no items 40 minutes. Easy bash with such good carries.
Io 9/7... game seems really balanced. Well played this one.
Io 7/7, you have 29/4 sven in your team aka good carry playing vs horrible 1/15 chaos knight feeder and a 5/12 wd. Also you have a troll in your team who gives sven even more speed but troll seems to suck balls given the items and score. Good carry once again combined with total noob carries other team. See this is perfect example. You have a good sven. They have a bad chaos. Nothing their supports can do if their only carry is so fkin shit(no excuse in dying 15 times with chaos.)
Io 4/12 You've got a pretty strong nevermore and naix in the team together with the AM who was mostly likely free farming during their rampages. Also a really tanky abadon. They have weak weaver with no items together with a useless dk. Not to mention that both DK and furion went for invis with weaver in their team. Their support, ogre magi has scepter and a lot of other good support items. Timber is tanky as well but no use if their carries are fucking crap. See? an ogre has better items than a weaver and a DK. So much for supporting.
Io 6/3 game lasted less than 20mins. Clear stomp. Nothing to analyze. Your spirit even went for shadowblade cause their team was so funkily bad.
Io 3/11, your first LOSS, guess why. Your carry had 1/5 and left the game. Your abbadon went for orchid(LOL) and you had no other carries. So much for supporting. On the other hand their Visage went into carry mode and had 16/8. Did more than lancer and weaver which seemed good anyway.
Io 11/5. One more good balanced game with a lot of supporting and disabling from you and Jakiro. Well played. Both sides had decent carries actually I'm surprised you won this. wp.
Io 8/5.. you stacked with your friend who had 24/2 slark (good carry remember) ajnd you're playing vs 1/15 and 3/18... nothing more to say. You also have an almost full build AM.Easy bash.
Io 9/11. you played 5on4 for like 25minutes I guess, also you played vs 1/10 Jakiro but a strong nevermore who has over 30 kills... I guess he fucked up by not buying bkb vs your divine rapier tiny and ganking pudge. He fucked up. You won.
Io 0/3.. another loss, you got raped in 10mins. Dno what happened.
Io 9/11 another loss. You have a bad weaver and magnus(aka bad carries) and a feeder timber 0/13.Also your kunka has no items as well. Opponent Ursa won the game with divine.
Io 1/4. You're also level 8 and also the game ended under 20mins thanks to good carry slark 11/2.
Io 1/5. You have 19/3 and 12/2 your team.Also its 5on4 your advantage.Their viper is strong but he is alone. Another stomp by good carries.
Io 7/10. You are playing vs 4 paper heroes and they also have a feeder 0/11 who left and made it once again 5on4. Easy.
These are your Io matches. I'm not going to analyze other games cause this was enough to prove a point. In total you had ONLY 2 close games where you seemed to make a difference because the games were very balanced from both sides and it seemed like there was a lot of teamplay involved as well together with decent carries. Other games were onesided stomps where you ended up on the team that stomped vs the team with noobs who died a lot and whose carries had no idea what they were doing. So ONLY two normal games out of 15. Your losses were due to bad carries in your team. There isn't a single game you had a bad carry that you won. And this was high bracket. Doesn't seem high at all by the way with such fuzzy builds and bad players.
And don't tell me that you made a bad carry into a good one by supporting. You don't need supports vs a fucking chaos knight 1/15 total loser. Or a team where each player dies more than 10 times. This is reality of MM. If you don't stack you either get lucky or you get fucked.
And I on the other hand had a shitload of games where I had to carry as a support to win. You're a good player sure. I think so given the builds and all that. But I'm not bad because I'm in normal bracket.
^Funny talking about IQ when people
A) gave you advices how to improve(specifically my post)
B) explained to you why having uber carry != 100% winrate in pubs.
C) If brackets are shit, how come pro players only play in very high games? Something to think about again.
I am recognizing 13 years old me starting playing dota in you, only after 10 people would tell me I'm wrong I'd think that I'm wrong rather than 10 people are wrong.
In fact OP do yourself a challenge, if you are not just words: Play 20-30 games on treant, and do things I described in post above (Stacking,pulling, pinging out enemies, saying back when you see team needs to go back, etc). If you manage to get A) <50% WR and B) not get into at least few high games then I'll agree MM is shit and it completely random. That is, if you are actually trying.
Have you thought that blunt got 29/4 sven because I helped him to settle tons of kills, not to mention tons of relocates.resulting in him getting a great advantage and becoming literally unstoppable. He played well, but how pro does it seem to you that he build mask of madness when we had troll and Io. because 250 attack speed is not enough(no offense blunt)?
And in the game where he got 24/2 slark, me drawing first-blood and saving his ass is one of the proest things I have done. It's interesting if he would do the same if he had a shittier support.
mostly you mention carries with high frags which are those who I supported and say that I got carried. think again.
Coach if you're going to critique someone please do it by downloading a replay and watching it. Just looking at items/score is not good enough. Look at Zenoth's post if you want to know what a good post looks like.
hell raiser if those carries were shit they wouldn't be as effective as a good carry even with a support. Thats the point. Also MoM is OP and with troll ulti even more OP.Great choice ;)
edit: Point is also that you are not making such a big difference. Sure a relocating wisp with sven is OP and cool... but really 29 kills=? those guys are just bad. Same goes with slark 24 kills 20mins.
Abaddon didn't have much of an impact since they couldn't force fights after they took the first few towers. Their lineup will only work when they are ahead by quite a lot or if the other team can't split push. When we got some items they couldn't really kill anyone.
Why were they not able to apply more pressure early? Did they just make to many mistakes? I don't remember any important shackle shots. Was wr just not good enough to execute their strat?
They only did one N'aix bomb iirc and not so much smoke ganging. Razor could push and farm bot freely while Sylla just needed Radiance to be effective. They didn't have any setup for shackle (apart from N'aix slow) so you can't really count on too many shackles since it's quite easy to "dodge" the shackle if you just have vision of it.
I've seen a handful of the very top pro WR players who seem to get 2 hero shackles all the time no matter who they are playing. What is different about them? Players like Synderen, EGM, and H4nn1 use shackle as the initiation skill very reliably.
I don't think they do it all the time but yeah if you have an initiation tool like Force Staff it's a lot easier. He rushed for guinsoo iirc so he didn't have that to work with.
Its funny, but I got to 53% WR playing solo SUPPORT heroes. So idk about stacks and whats not, anyone with hands growing from the right place can at least get to high MM. If in doubt-pick treant @ win games.
And by carry you I meant they had higher amount of kills+ assist. Obviously if you have high amount of kill, but u are carry, and u get outcarried by someone in ur team> u get carried, because without that second person who knows how the game would go.
Well, adapting in different situations is what distinguishes very high skilled players from the rest.
@Coach
I think you should buy Mek at least sometimes on Warlock instead of usually just building a Headress.
Do you guys watch each other's games just to try to make each other look like baddies? Good.
Buying only headdress is cool. Everyone in team thinks you are going for meka, so they don't buy it and then you buy something else and they die a little inside.
if you do not like this game. stop playing it.
If you understood anything in this game Tractatus you would understand that a 2melee lane vs 2 ranged with 3 stuns is one of the worst possible lanes you can get. Your thinking is pretty much the definition of a BAD player.
@The Terrible Then you were very, very lucky. I gave you above the links of my last 9 loses, 7 got fucked up by others - how about that? You can't do anything with a support if the carry in the team sucks. And in my team carries almost always suck. And very bad reasoning about who carries.
@Wolfgang - yea I adapted in the game with medusa by managing to do something later on. As for the 7 losses above... can't adapt playing 4on5 with 2 noobs. Not possible.
@Meow you are really crazy with your generalism about normal bracket :D 8.0KDA and 75%winrate... did you even LOOK at the links I gave? What an ignorant egoistic jackass. Seriously.
@Sam No, he watches them, I just took a look at the score board of one of his last games and analyzed his supah high bracket.
Sometimes Valve is mean and puts people who deserve very very very high into normal, it happens, just like they put noobs like the rest who deserve normal into very high... im with you coach!!! /sarcasmn
Still complaining about the lane and insulting other people. I could have easily won it if I were in that lane. Don't give excuses for making shit choices like walking up to take a last hit when your entire creep wave is dead. You played extremely poorly and that's why you lost the lane, stop blaming the whole world but yourself. Adapted in the game? You had virtually zero impact early-mid, your team basically won the fights with clutch Stone Gazes, you didn't even do shit. I have already shown you so many reasons why you belong to the normal tier, but you refuse to accept any of them. Good day to you. I'm out, no need to prove myself to scum like you, just here to tell you why you suck (and maybe one day you realize it and begin to improve).
I wasn't lucky. I stepped up my game. I learned proper support, with all the warding, map control, smoke ganks. Double stacks? fuck yeah. Stacking after there is still 1 ranged creep left? No problem. There is so many techniques you have to learn as a support to be truly efficient. Same goes for every role, but support is the most theory-intense role.
Youd be surprised how many people will follow you if you smoke and ping and say go gank. It works 95% of the times. Did I had bad players? Yes. Did enemies had bad players? sure. But its up to you how well you do in pubs. Team is disorganized? Say go gank, go kill or back go farm, some people just need a little push to do the right thing. Team has no map control? Put up all 4 wards and actively ping out enemies that might be coming for gank or enemies that might be vulnerable.
It is luck sometimes, but to get above 50% you will REALLY need to put effort into this game.
Ehy don't you just give up coach? This game is obviously not for you and you don't even seem to enjoy it.
I wanna play with this coach guy so I can see just how bad s/he is.
The fact that you think denying is a waste of time shows had bad your really are.
I'll 1v1 you and you can choose what hero, and I'll show you the power of the deny.
You were lucky if you soloed supports and got through. :D Lucky that you had carries who didn't have bad builds. A drow who has MOM and HOD is bad and there is nothing you can do to make him play better. Simple as that.
It doesn0t matter about wnning or losing that lane Zenoth. The lane was simply WRONG cause of a fucker who went mid and shouldn't have. Thats a handicap.
Didn't say denying was waste of time just that I can't be bothered vs noobs. Also yea if you really think I'm bad you're really crazy :)
Also you can't really show me much when you play a void with only 1 dps item :XD No wonder you lost that game SayRay. Oh I forgot, you are high bracket so you MUST BE GOOD :)
nothing is keeping you out of very high MM cept shitty gameplay
^He ignored my whole post about playing well, except for hte first sentence, what do you expect lol.
You playing a good support has nothing to do with winning in normal brackets. Carries do the winning there. Shit carry shit game. Simple as.
wrong again coach
^Read my post again. It doesn't matter how brain dead your carry is, if you gank, and do your best- your going to have more than 50% wirnate. Why? Because enemies going to have brain dead carries too, but dead brain with support>same without, simple as that.
@coach
I won 12 out of 15 Io games.
4 out of 6 naga games.
2 out of 3 visage games.
Are you sure about what you say? yeah my number of matches is a bit little to judge with but still, supports win games. and those shitty carries are carried.
The fact is. there are lots of noobs playing in high and Vhigh brackets. there's an exact same chance that inappropriate players will be put in your team as in your enemy team. but wait, you have 4 allies and 5 enemies. So if you're better than anyone, you should be getting at least 55% win rate after lots of games. otherwise, just admit that you are not better than an average player at your rate.
@HeLL_RAISer
you're missing the fact that he hasn't even made it into a single High game in his entire Dota 2 life.
Protip: When people give you suggestions to improve, ignoring them and/or telling them that they're wrong will not help you improve. Looking at your games, you have quite a ways to improve and are currently matched in the correct bracket.
Unlike some people here Dota2 isn't my life Zenoth. My skill doesn't depend on the bracket sorry. You keep talking about a flawed MM system and I'll keep telling you that if the system was good, ELO would be public :) So logical.
As for hellraiser.
Io 17/5 playing vs 4/14 3/13 1/13 and 3/12. Entire opponent team sucks.
Io 1/7 you have clinkz 21/4 and 12/4 lancer in your team. Also you have divine rapier among your items(if you took it from them then the team was really stupid as well). Lion and Rubick also no items 40 minutes. Easy bash with such good carries.
Io 9/7... game seems really balanced. Well played this one.
Io 7/7, you have 29/4 sven in your team aka good carry playing vs horrible 1/15 chaos knight feeder and a 5/12 wd. Also you have a troll in your team who gives sven even more speed but troll seems to suck balls given the items and score. Good carry once again combined with total noob carries other team. See this is perfect example. You have a good sven. They have a bad chaos. Nothing their supports can do if their only carry is so fkin shit(no excuse in dying 15 times with chaos.)
Io 4/12 You've got a pretty strong nevermore and naix in the team together with the AM who was mostly likely free farming during their rampages. Also a really tanky abadon. They have weak weaver with no items together with a useless dk. Not to mention that both DK and furion went for invis with weaver in their team. Their support, ogre magi has scepter and a lot of other good support items. Timber is tanky as well but no use if their carries are fucking crap. See? an ogre has better items than a weaver and a DK. So much for supporting.
Io 6/3 game lasted less than 20mins. Clear stomp. Nothing to analyze. Your spirit even went for shadowblade cause their team was so funkily bad.
Io 3/11, your first LOSS, guess why. Your carry had 1/5 and left the game. Your abbadon went for orchid(LOL) and you had no other carries. So much for supporting. On the other hand their Visage went into carry mode and had 16/8. Did more than lancer and weaver which seemed good anyway.
Io 11/5. One more good balanced game with a lot of supporting and disabling from you and Jakiro. Well played. Both sides had decent carries actually I'm surprised you won this. wp.
Io 8/5.. you stacked with your friend who had 24/2 slark (good carry remember) ajnd you're playing vs 1/15 and 3/18... nothing more to say. You also have an almost full build AM.Easy bash.
Io 9/11. you played 5on4 for like 25minutes I guess, also you played vs 1/10 Jakiro but a strong nevermore who has over 30 kills... I guess he fucked up by not buying bkb vs your divine rapier tiny and ganking pudge. He fucked up. You won.
Io 0/3.. another loss, you got raped in 10mins. Dno what happened.
Io 9/11 another loss. You have a bad weaver and magnus(aka bad carries) and a feeder timber 0/13.Also your kunka has no items as well. Opponent Ursa won the game with divine.
Io 1/4. You're also level 8 and also the game ended under 20mins thanks to good carry slark 11/2.
Io 1/5. You have 19/3 and 12/2 your team.Also its 5on4 your advantage.Their viper is strong but he is alone. Another stomp by good carries.
Io 7/10. You are playing vs 4 paper heroes and they also have a feeder 0/11 who left and made it once again 5on4. Easy.
These are your Io matches. I'm not going to analyze other games cause this was enough to prove a point. In total you had ONLY 2 close games where you seemed to make a difference because the games were very balanced from both sides and it seemed like there was a lot of teamplay involved as well together with decent carries. Other games were onesided stomps where you ended up on the team that stomped vs the team with noobs who died a lot and whose carries had no idea what they were doing. So ONLY two normal games out of 15. Your losses were due to bad carries in your team. There isn't a single game you had a bad carry that you won. And this was high bracket. Doesn't seem high at all by the way with such fuzzy builds and bad players.
And don't tell me that you made a bad carry into a good one by supporting. You don't need supports vs a fucking chaos knight 1/15 total loser. Or a team where each player dies more than 10 times. This is reality of MM. If you don't stack you either get lucky or you get fucked.
And I on the other hand had a shitload of games where I had to carry as a support to win. You're a good player sure. I think so given the builds and all that. But I'm not bad because I'm in normal bracket.
yes you are......
Yeah I'm also very impressed by your IQ that managed to compile such a huge argumentative post.
^Funny talking about IQ when people
A) gave you advices how to improve(specifically my post)
B) explained to you why having uber carry != 100% winrate in pubs.
C) If brackets are shit, how come pro players only play in very high games? Something to think about again.
I am recognizing 13 years old me starting playing dota in you, only after 10 people would tell me I'm wrong I'd think that I'm wrong rather than 10 people are wrong.
In fact OP do yourself a challenge, if you are not just words: Play 20-30 games on treant, and do things I described in post above (Stacking,pulling, pinging out enemies, saying back when you see team needs to go back, etc). If you manage to get A) <50% WR and B) not get into at least few high games then I'll agree MM is shit and it completely random. That is, if you are actually trying.
improvement is waste of time [][][][][] valve is going to stretch your butthole for becoming above average
Have you thought that blunt got 29/4 sven because I helped him to settle tons of kills, not to mention tons of relocates.resulting in him getting a great advantage and becoming literally unstoppable. He played well, but how pro does it seem to you that he build mask of madness when we had troll and Io. because 250 attack speed is not enough(no offense blunt)?
And in the game where he got 24/2 slark, me drawing first-blood and saving his ass is one of the proest things I have done. It's interesting if he would do the same if he had a shittier support.
mostly you mention carries with high frags which are those who I supported and say that I got carried. think again.
see my stats and tell me if i m applicable :)
i m okok,just need some good team,and make new friends hehe
Coach if you're going to critique someone please do it by downloading a replay and watching it. Just looking at items/score is not good enough. Look at Zenoth's post if you want to know what a good post looks like.
Karkkilainen, Please share your opinion on the impact of abaddon after that game with 4FC.
hell raiser if those carries were shit they wouldn't be as effective as a good carry even with a support. Thats the point. Also MoM is OP and with troll ulti even more OP.Great choice ;)
edit: Point is also that you are not making such a big difference. Sure a relocating wisp with sven is OP and cool... but really 29 kills=? those guys are just bad. Same goes with slark 24 kills 20mins.
Abaddon didn't have much of an impact since they couldn't force fights after they took the first few towers. Their lineup will only work when they are ahead by quite a lot or if the other team can't split push. When we got some items they couldn't really kill anyone.
Why were they not able to apply more pressure early? Did they just make to many mistakes? I don't remember any important shackle shots. Was wr just not good enough to execute their strat?
They only did one N'aix bomb iirc and not so much smoke ganging. Razor could push and farm bot freely while Sylla just needed Radiance to be effective. They didn't have any setup for shackle (apart from N'aix slow) so you can't really count on too many shackles since it's quite easy to "dodge" the shackle if you just have vision of it.
I've seen a handful of the very top pro WR players who seem to get 2 hero shackles all the time no matter who they are playing. What is different about them? Players like Synderen, EGM, and H4nn1 use shackle as the initiation skill very reliably.
I don't think they do it all the time but yeah if you have an initiation tool like Force Staff it's a lot easier. He rushed for guinsoo iirc so he didn't have that to work with.
OP is a troll. No one is that of a dumbass.
Thread close.
Zenoth I see you have a 74% winrate with TA which is my favorite hero, can you analyze my gameplay with her so I can learn how to improve?
why is this stupid thread not dead
^Because you keep commenting in it and it rise from the ash once again
LOL %47 winrate and 2 KDA on TA. I got bad news for you dude.