Option to keep it private, if you have private DBR, you can't see others DBR and viceversa.
^ This is a great idea. Not only to keep it private, but to disallow them from looking at other people's DBR. And also, to take it a step further, you cannot look at other's DBR without signing into the site.
"Plus, if your DBR is bad, maybe there are some aspects of your play-style that need to be improved."
And you can come to this conclusion only if the DBR is public?
Valid point you got there!
^^ You make no sense. You can look at your own DBR rating and what division you fall in. If you have a bad DBR rating, maybe there are things you can do to improve your playstyle.
I care, so you're asking me to mute all the players in every game? Misses? Communication?
It isn't about what players say. Its how they act. If a specific number is visible and people attempt to assess you based solely off that number, you get people who don't let you play as you wish because you're 5 points lower than then. Want to play mid carry? You're not the highest DBR on the team, good luck with that.
Oh yeah, and this mute players crap? I don't HAVE to do that now. I find the community, for the most part, is pleasant. Sure you have a few flamers every once in a while but they have no ammo to go on. Making stats public gives people something to bitch about before the game even starts.
And what does making the DBR rating public or private have anything to do with self assessment? If it's private I can still see whether or not my DBR is poor or good. I don't need other people seeing it for me to get that.
I don't understand why all these people NEED to see your DBR. We have been doing perfectly fine without a public rating. And while yes, privately I would love to see my rating, I don't NEED to show it off to other people, nor do I NEED to see others.
Because they would have no reason to flame you in the first place....
Unless there was some sort of, oh I don't know, public rating number that people could review before the game ever starts.
What don't people understand about changes in behavior when comparative information is given?
Anyone who complains about DBR should eat shit and die right now.
j/k XD , but really no need to make a big deal out of it just learn to ignore flamers its not too hard.
dimgl, seriously...
Do you ignore our arguments or are you too stupid to understand them?
Is my english too bad? Then say so and don't give us some shit responses.
Thats not what I said. I said I dont need to see others' DBR. And they dont need to see mine.
Shouldn't I be the one to decide whether or not others do?
@shypandaloo
Heres the problem with that arguement. Currently no one flames anyone over DBR ratings... and really there isnt much flaming at all. Why exactly are we trying to change that dynamic?
As I said, don't give people argument to flame you from minute 0, if they do, I want to hear thing about MY BAD MOVES OR MY BAD DECISIONS IN THAT SPECIFIC GAME, so i can reply to them "Fuckin Void instead of farmin you are feeding them" -> MY REPLY "MAN OUR FOREST IS WARDED I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE SHOULD I FARM"...
With public DBR, only if your mouse will STAY ON VOID (before pickin, when your show witch hero you're going to pick) ONE or TWO GUYS will start : "SACRED STOP! OMG YOU DBR IS LOWER THAN MINE, GO FUCKIN SUPPORT I'LL CARRY THIS GAME, LOOK AT MY DBR I'm THE BEST HERE Ho HO Ho"
Sorry 4 bad english but: True Story
"As I said, don't give people argument to flame you from minute 0, if they do, I want to hear thing about MY BAD MOVES OR MY BAD DECISIONS IN THAT SPECIFIC GAME, so i can reply to them "Fuckin Void instead of farmin you are feeding them" -> MY REPLY "MAN OUR FOREST IS WARDED I HAVE NO IDEA WHERE SHOULD I FARM"...
With public DBR, only if your mouse will STAY ON VOID (before pickin, when your show witch hero you're going to pick) ONE or TWO GUYS will start : "SACRED STOP! OMG YOU DBR IS LOWER THAN MINE, GO FUCKIN SUPPORT I'LL CARRY THIS GAME, LOOK AT MY DBR I'm THE BEST HERE Ho HO Ho"
Sorry 4 bad english but: True Story"
I played HoN for whatever many years and that never was a real thing.
Either it won't happen or DotA has shittier community than HoN ever had.
@Teal, probably you was the one of the "ONE or TWO GUYS" , go back to Hon, your community waits for you, take Bni-Power with you please...
And you know I am not wrong describing what will happen if DBR will become public... Hon proved that
http://imgur.com/QLfhZ3V
Most people in THIS forum is like this.
They see themselves beyond godlike.
It's just sad.
@Inuyaki
the only agrument you got there is "omg people gonna troll and flame me cause i'm bad". And let me say - it doesnt count as valid.
@Stephanie
Come on, you know this has nothing to do with being bad or good, or even being flamed, it has to do with the change in behavior that is going to arise when people have access to this crap.
If you want to have an actual discussion about it, at least address people whose arguements you find stronger instead of heading to someones you find easily put down.
In all honesty your attitude in all of these threads leads me to believe you're probably one of the people who are going to check all your teammates DBRs at the beginning of the match, then bitch and complain when someone on your team has a lower DBR than you and insist that you MUST know better than them.
And lets all be honest here, there is NO benefit from knowing someone else's rating other than flaming them. They already stated their rating system nearly matches that of DOTA2's private one according to Matchmaking. So the number is already doing its job at assessing you compared to other people. It is a wholly personal number that lets YOU know how YOU are doing. There is absolutely no need to look at another persons number. Unless you can give me one.
And to the crowd who says if the number is public it will make people want to be better. It doesnt need to be public to do that. case in point a post from another thread I made
"The number can provide incentive even when private. There is no need to see others ratings other than your own. The rating is on a fixed scale, it is not cumulative, therefor by having a private rating you can see how well you stack up with the community (which is the purpose is it not?). What benefit do you get from seeing another persons rating? I'm curious."
@Stephanie
So you have no problem when I start flaming you because of your rating if I ever get you ingame?
And no, my argument is "Why should we give jerks, who gonna troll and flame, some numbers to 'back' them up?"
PS and would you be fine, if all your grades/income/whatever would be made public?
How much money do you have on your account? I mean, its no problem for you that numbers getting public, right?
@strreamix_ncL
When you are presented with sound arguments and then choose not to address them, and reduce your side to just name calling. You make yourself look like and idiot.
@ CMMiller89
Okay I will present you with clear arguments as to how even though the DBR may not improve your personal Dota experience, in the long run it can and will improve the general attitude and experience for Dota players across the board. Being given a rating (that is public) provides several benefits beyond "improving at your own pace because you see only your personal DBR."
1. There is something called the dunning-kruger effect, a "cognitive bias in which unskilled individuals suffer from illusory superiority, mistakenly rating their ability much higher than average. This bias is attributed to a metacognitive inability of the unskilled to recognize their mistakes." - wikipedia.org
I have noticed many people, high or low skilled, do not truly want to know or want others to know how they stand relative to other players. Having a public DBR difference of only a small amount of points doesn't really matter because DBR/elo is constantly fluctuating. But having a large difference such as bracket differences platinum vs. bronze, it will definitely notify a significant skill gap. If we want to engender a community based on LEARNING from better players, wouldn't it be useful to see in your games who you have the most to learn from?
2. Dota is a very competitive game, and roles/lane assignments/heroes are very important to that competition. For any captain of Dota, they will understand how important it is that each unique team member plays a certain hero. Even though many people "think" that they can play all heroes against all levels of opponents, this is simply not true. I see many times in CM queue where someone with 7 total wins and the least Dota 2 experience, wants to play carry. ONE player can make a difference, and as you move up higher in the competitive pool, doing what you want =/= what is best for your team. As a goal for the ulterior motivation behind dota 2, do we want to make the game about the personal experience or about the TEAM experience where people do the best they can to help their team. I am a mid/carry/solo player, but when I inhouse or scrim, I will gladly switch my role depending upon who I play with. MOST pubs do not have this flexible mentality, having a public DBR will let the higher DBR players help make team decisions such as lane assignments/hero picks. (Having the highest dbr does not mean you should necessarily play carry, but it most likely means that higher DBR players will understand how they can most benefit the team - e.g. you could have 4 high dbr players pick heroes that make a lot of space for the lower DBR carry to farm)
etc etc, I could go on with some more nuances, but I genuinely believe that even if some people will have the knee-jerk reaction to be afraid of public DBR, I hope in the long run it will increase the desire for players to learn and improve instead of blindly "feeling" like they are quality dota players.
EDIT: I forgot to reply to this "The number can provide incentive even when private. There is no need to see others ratings other than your own. The rating is on a fixed scale, it is not cumulative, therefor by having a private rating you can see how well you stack up with the community (which is the purpose is it not?). What benefit do you get from seeing another persons rating? I'm curious."
Numbers being private encourage lying. A low skilled, low self-esteem player can close their eyes to their own flaws. Having a public DBR will at least open OUR eyes to their skill level. Many low skilled players won't check their dotabuff or lie about whether or not they can play a hero (just because they selfishly want to). When I queue as captains modes, I will definitely want to make sure the KEY heroes of my strategy do not fall into a very low ranked player. No need for flames, people already know that flames @ lvl 1 probably are going to make that person play even worse. Winning as a team is more important than the individual experience because eventually, there will be more fun for everyone.
People want to see where they stand and it will also provide justification for matchmaking in a way better than what Valve has been providing so far. In games like HoN, LoL, SC2, etc people like to see their rating and they like to see if they're getting better over time as it gives them a sense of progression as a player. I am fairly certain there would be less complaints about matchmaking if we could see our mmr as it would justify why the matchup was done. Hopefully this will push Valve over the edge and get them to implement visible mmr in game and created an unranked matchmaking so people that don't care about stats, etc can just queue on that instead.
Guys, its not about DBR or not, its about public or private...
@Sterence
Why do you wanna decrease the quality of games of people who dont care that much about rankings and dont wanna have them public?
Only because they dont have any obsessions for numbers that doesnt mean they dont wanna enjoy the matchmaking which matches them with nearly equal players.
^ for someone who says "seriously...
Do you ignore our arguments or are you too stupid to understand them"
i clearly state PUBLIC dbr. . . and my arguments pertain only to a system in which ALL people can see each others.
edited: "nearly equal players" from your previous post. MM does not mean everyone in your game is similar level. Not even close.. this hidden MMR system makes people believe all sorts of misinformation. Just because I played against pros in pubs does NOT mean I am as good as them... you created even more evidence for hidden mmr creating more confusion about actual player skill
@ Cold World
I appreciate your well thought-out and written response, and I would like to offer up some retorts.
To your first point, I would agree that offering up a grouping (bronze, gold, plat) to the public is fine, your right, it offers up a general assessment of your fellow players in groups of around 30% of the player-base. And really, if the matchmaking is doing its job, like DOTABUFF says it is, you're most likely going to be matched with people in your own group anyways.
Doing this I feel like would address the Dunning-Kruger effect as you described it.
your second point, I feel that the matchmaking is already doing its job, unless you're trying to enter matchmaking with a 3-4 man team, you're being put in games with people that are relatively equal skill, again as attested by DOTABUFF. So if you're already being placed within a group of people who are of generally equal skill, whose ratings fluctuate but hover in the same area what point is there of the rating being public? (again this is assuming groups are public).
You said it yourself that small amounts of points of difference in DBR rating don't really matter because they fluctuate. But what's a small amount? It depends on where in the bell curve you stand. The closer you are to the center, the more smaller differences mean, if you're in platinum your number is going to be changing drastically each game.
Don't you think a better way to encourage learning in the community would be providing better and more abundant resources for new players to find and reach?
How much more would a number help that would allow people to pass judgement on other before a game even starts?
Public numbers won't discourage lying, they'll promote arguments. Right now, I can hop into a game, let the first 2 or 3 people from both sides pick their heroes and then people fill in the roles left to play. People discuss what heroes match up better against others, who they can and cant play. Add ratings to that and it becomes an argument of who DESERVES to go where based on that rating.
I have more but need to get some work done. I'd love to hear your responses. I apologize for how brief mine are.
1) I said "Guys" and did not talk to you explicitly
2) Your first point didnt care about public/private. You edited it later, but if people lie to themself even after seeing numbers, they are unwilling to learn anyway, it wont help that others flame them then.
3) It is way better than your idea to just let them play random games with random people. And guess what... it will become better in the future. Because
a) More players will make matching players much easier!
b) Many people didnt play soooo many games yet and a matchmaking system for a teamgame like Dota is way to complex to be accurate after 100-200games.
c) MMR is already quite good with enough games, Purge explained a little test regarding that in his vlog during TI2 or so. Most problems are because of a)
4) It doesnt matter now, Valve finished DBR off :)
@inuyaki
If you don't care about stats and don't have an obsession for numbers, then why in the world are you on this website in the first place? Your arguments makes NO SENSE, it's quite clear you are insecure about your stats.
I never talked about me.
Ofcourse do I have an obsession for numbers... I'm studying mathmatics (well, I work more with ordinals in set theory ^^)
I am NOT insecure about my stats. If I would have been I would have never posted here, because you can now just click on my name, right? I'm around 90%, I think that's quite good and I'm happy with that. I know I make some mistakes sometimes (and sometimes I make them often) and work on that, but for my level I think I do quite a good job as carry most of the time :)
You can go look up my games, my stats, my w/l, my % with certain heroes, my games even, go ahead and flame me if you think you really need to, I don't care.
See, there are people out there who aren't only interested in themselves.
I would have even made my DBR public, I just don't think it's right to set it public on default.
I miss DotAlicious like hell, everything was and still is public, roles were given by the captain of the team, whether blue or pink, and im not talking about captains mode, its just blue/pink is always the best player in the match, who must carry, who must solo mid, all this was given by the blue/pink, or just discussed with him, and no one flamed there because of the so fucking amazing reporting/ban system there, report is much more reliable there, almost all the time acceptable (by me), and bans were rly terrifying, not like this shit valve which i dont know how the hell its MMR works, or the skill lvl, or the report/ban system, or the drops after game system, its just so damn retarded, everything is hidden, even obama's CIA dont know shit about it..
the game is public, its not like u need close the door before playing as if u r pissing in the bathroom..
in DotAlicious everything was public, and its the best platform to play on, so sad that u need like 10 days to find 10 players to play a dota 2 game there :/
Jan.23 dota test changelog:
- Added a privacy setting in the UI so that players can specify whether they want to allow external 3rd party websites to be able to access their match history (defaulted to private).
Valve put an end to the debate. Dont worry, be happy!
Please sign in to post comments.
It's pretty ridiculous how many people are getting worked up about DBR. If anyone flames you in-game because of it, all you have to do is press the Mute and the Report button. Plus, if your DBR is bad, maybe there are some aspects of your play-style that need to be improved.
I mean, why do people get so bothered over this? Sure, sometimes I get worked up about my own statistic because I see where I need to improve, but never do I get bothered because someone else doesn't like my statistics, or vice-versa.
Thoughts?