General Discussion

General DiscussionBalancing Dota with AI

Balancing Dota with AI in General Discussion
MuLLi

    #Valve should just make AI which would balance dota for all brackets with win rates and not to change heroes abilities all the time.

    So balancing would be done with starting gold. Losing heroes would get more and "meta" heroes would get less at the begin of each game. Eventually there would be balance in game without hero ability changes at all. Valve could focus in real dev work instead of balancing abilities.

    In the end everyone would benefit in every bracket and in costs to balance the game.

    MuLLi

      After this update there would not be anymore "meta" heroes and heroes which is out of meta. Only thing which would matter would be the skill to play your hero compared to your bracket. So good players would raise and bad would go down. No more just pick meta hero to raise your mmr just pure skill to determine are u going up or down.

      Quem foi à final?

        meta is based on pro scene not on archon level... If a hero is picked many times by pros / having a lot of sucess they consider nerfing the hero a bit and buffing non meta heroes a bit to spice things up a bit. Winrates on pubs are sometimes weird because the lower brackets tend to last longer, and makes late game heroes better and the cheese heroes easy to execute too (normally by smurfs). Also heroes like tiny and techies cant have 50% wr cuz the players just ruin a lot with those on purpose (aka tiny airlines).

        MuLLi

          As I said AI balancing would be different for every bracket so PRO players would have their own balancing

          MuLLi

            Game would be balanced for every player all the time no more "meta" abusing just pure skill which would rank u up or down

            kowareta

              why bother ourselves to create such an AI, mr sherlock? we can just reduce hero pool to one and thats make the game fair for everybody.
              pure skill, finally skilled players like mulli will get out of archon in this way.

              MuLLi

                Low tier players might found support heroes better because smurfs usually wan't to play core heroes so in low tier games supports might get boosted slightly or smurfs start to play supports.

                Pale Mannie

                  shit hero get +1000 staring gold and destroys those now "meta" heroes. the day after the AI decides someone else should take turn in destroying laning stage with minute 0 boots-lace-oov-2bracers or something. wacky idea for sure

                  MuLLi

                    Just statistic and math really to balance the game no more dev team random modifies. If some hero is so bad in bracket that it can't win 50% of games with 600g in start it would win after the balance of starting gold would be found. Pretty easy way to make game better and more skill oriented

                    MuLLi

                      @pale mannie those game ruiners are so rare that in statistics they would not matter. After all community would found the balance for the game not some random dev's

                      MuLLi

                        No more broken heroes! No more imbalance in the game just pure skill to determine your rank. If u are better than others with certain hero or combo wombo u will raise. If u are lousier than average with that hero u would lose mmr.

                        kowareta

                          :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh: :axe_laugh:

                          kowareta

                            understanding meta and broken aspects of heroes is part of "SKILL"
                            what a dumb bitch this guy is. no boundry in his stupidity

                            Salty

                              @OP Dota was never about balance dude, it's about changing the game while trying to maintain said balance. If you want true balance you can do like kowareta said and everyone should pick the same hero, and also radiant / dire map differences have to be completely excluded. But guess what? The game would be boring as fuck to watch and play, that's why you add more heroes. When the saltyness about your losses go away, you can learn more about this stuff by watching this Core-A gaming video:

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbjSeBOP-MA&list=PLWIbhIYLOq-T7XwgHe2y2hBE8Zr_yeODi&index=7&t=0s

                              Even though it's a fighting game channel, it has some really good analysis about competitive gaming in general. Also, define "pure skill", bc I want to know what kind of concept you have around that. If you watched at least one international you would understand that drafting is a big part of the skill in this game, often being the reason some matches are free wins.

                              This comment was edited
                              MuLLi

                                ^ofc there would be hero combos which would be good but in general heroes would be in same level. It would be all about how u play/draft those combo heroes not any more solo game. Real dota is all about 5vs5 not 1vs1 and abusing broken heroes

                                MuLLi

                                  So "meta" would be more difficult because anymore it would not be enough to pick "meta" hero and out farm/push your enemies it would steer towards real skill and team play to win games

                                  MuLLi

                                    Meta would be more complex and harder to learn because after this change u would NEED to play combo wombo to be good. No more easy wins for any hero bec all heroes would be in same level. AI could balance the game after every game or once per hour. Dev team does these same balancing but only once per month or so and lack balancing for different brackets.

                                    kowareta

                                      what do u even know about skill, meta, drafting, outfarming and anythign about dota mr archon? what do u even know abnout it? u cant even cast your spells and play your goddamnt treant like a normal treant player meanwhile u have 1k games on him. jesus fucking christ what a fucking delusional moron you are.

                                      MuLLi

                                        Eventually playing meta combo would also wear off and u would need to evolve and find new combo to be in meta. Game level would be much harder for all and more skill oriented. It would be the game which is little bit different every morning.

                                        edit. "bit" added

                                        This comment was edited
                                        kowareta

                                          yeah try to ignore me in your sad little manchild life, u know what buddy?? i was the only one here defending you while others copy pasting your threads non stop. but well when i think about it, im the only one here having false hope in retarded ppl like you. enjoy sharing your amazing thoughts to nobody from now, fucking disgusting snake.

                                          MuLLi

                                            It really doesn't matter if Valve would not implement this to Dota right now because this would be the way to balance all games in future. We need AI to do it.

                                            SebastianTheGymViking

                                              What you are doing is trying to fix something that isn't broken.
                                              Looking at a multivariable equation and trying to solve it with binary thinking.
                                              its not how Dota works, or anything else complex.

                                              Good bad, yes no, gold no gold.
                                              its pretty old testament don't you think?

                                              A better idea would be to get an AI to fill in people who abandon and leave games.

                                              MuLLi

                                                ^AI to fill abandon would be nice.

                                                If dota is not broken why there is so much imbalance and balancing updates?

                                                SebastianTheGymViking

                                                  To make it more fun. Make sense? :)

                                                  MuLLi

                                                    Yeah changes make game more fun somehow. When u are really bored to the game big update make it sometimes fun for a while I agree on that.