General Discussion

General DiscussionDo you guys think that the entire neutral items concept needs to be r...

Do you guys think that the entire neutral items concept needs to be reworked? Does it have too much rng? in General Discussion
ScaredyCat

    Although many people think that reducing the number of neutral items one can hold to one is a good item, it is actually a flawed concept since there are consumables like royal jelly. Items like royal jelly, mango tree and repair kit becomes the best to get as they technically grant extra utility. One can imagine a greater faerie fire becoming a super powerful item for tanks. Vambrace is also very strong.

    I think the neutral items are too unbalanced, in such a way that does not allow much of a comeback in this patch. Supports are dying like flies in low skill, maybe in higher level, they are now forced to get something like a bracer. Having 7 items to deal with and switching neutrals like trusty shovel will mean significantly more skill involved which some may like or may not like.

    However all these highlights the need for a tweak to the current system. One could be to do away with all consumables, another could be ensuring that each team are guaranteed some consumables. Or maybe I suggest that there be 2 slots out of 6 slots that can be reserved for application of neutral items, while doing away with the dedicated neutral item slot. So you have back to a maximum of 6 slots and supports can make use of two of these slots for neutrals while carries can upgrade their slots.

    Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

      Big up to all fellows trusty shovel & philosopher stone swappers.

      This comment was edited
      kowareta

        dear valve
        i lost a lot of games cause enemy consumed royal jelly (broken shit item)
        meanwhile RNG dd rune which gives enemy free rosh had 0 impact in my games
        plz remove royal jelly thats so stupid
        sincerely archon player for life

        This comment was edited
        yogura`

          Haha git gud

          Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

            Yes man 1/3 perma clarity that costs 0g on 2 players is bad.

            Totally useless item.

            Same goes with the flying vision of the mango tree and the ~9*70g it gives to your team.

            Very bad.

            And this repair kit that delays this split push from ennemies, totally useless.

            And the greater faerie fire on Io and its +450*2 instant healing is completely trash, better get the broom handle for the armor.

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            Vaikiss`742.

              well problem is that half of the items are trash half of the items are usable and 10% are just to good

              Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                ^Sorry man but if you look at the list : https://dota2.gamepedia.com/Neutral_Items

                It's hard to list half of the items being trash from tier2.

                Sometimes they are not adapted (quiver if your comp is full melee picks) but it's much less than 50% trash.

                ScaredyCat

                  I have macros to swap items from backpack to neutral slots and normal slots. I mean it is a must right?

                  Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                    Should be. One of my previous game got saved because of a trusty shovel bounty allowing 2 players to buyback. YAY.

                    ScaredyCat

                      If you like rng, you should make a petition to bring back helm of undying and others also? Why dont we make PA crit 5% chance with a 1000% dmg on crit?

                      Sygma zxc ghoul 2y.o dead...

                        Haha by talking about the swapping opti you prove it's not RNG only. :)

                        Count the number of people in your games that optimize the neutrals swapping between shovel, philosopher stone and the effective fighting/farming/regen neutral item.

                        I'm sure they are few to do this kind of optimization in archon (I've been there).

                        However, I'll give you a point on the RNG in the scenarios in which this bristleback gets vampire fangs or when this slark/ursa gets titan sliver.

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                        kowareta

                          I have macros

                          actually cheating in video game and still 2k mmr KEKW

                          ScaredyCat

                            ^ Only recently implemented. By the way how is that cheating? I cant find any rule in dota that bans that.

                            Vaikiss`742.

                              actually yeah theres abrely any t2 items in the list most of them are usuable only few are good and atleast alf are very situational

                              basement :)

                                I think neutral item rng is fine. With so many dropping every game, it all balances out. With the limitation to 1 neutral item, there is no longer the possibility to get insane neutral item rng.

                                '96 Neve Campbell

                                  Basically everything in this game is rng based. A lot of heros have chance based abilities, every hero even has rng based attack damage afaik. Whilst Dota is largely a skill based game there is still a lot of chance involved and whilst I dont think introducing more rng based mechanics is a good thing, it is not anything new... Apart from the highest tier of neutral items, none of them are all that superior to items you should be able to buy at their timestamps anyway...

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                                  Tyski

                                    I find them fun, sure i do think some items are better than others, especially in the T4 category probably in T5 too but haven't had much experience with that one. I don't think having a 1/3 clarity running all game is really going to change much in the grand scheme of things and the repair kit is meh, hasnt decided any games for me. If it ever does, i'll be pretty hyped so yeah good changes.

                                    Zetsabre

                                      I start losing trust on trusty shovel, almost never give bounty the whole time when I'm the one who use it.

                                      kowareta

                                        3 time got bounty in my last game
                                        just git gud like me
                                        in just 12 casts (https://www.opendota.com/matches/5234804310/casts)
                                        feels good man

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                                        arin

                                          just remove them please

                                          Tu tayta

                                            I mean...just use them as well?

                                            Jack__Attack

                                              Neutral items make comeback harder. I just spent a 48min game where we intentionally just starved them for 30mins and they had no neutral items. (Their lineup was very high ground defensive)