He's talking about am specifically because the illusion gets the mana break orb, making you cry tears of blood.
1. Terrorblades first skill deals hardly any damage but it slows you enough so he can damage you.
2. Terrorblade deals a lot of damage early game which is why people QQ so much cause everyone wants to farm safely.
3. You need to work on your positioning cause if you're blinking to his first skill then either your map awareness or pathing is at fault
4. Why did you pick AM vs their lineup (no I picked first bullshit, you could have repicked and let the CK safe lane)
...terrorblade is balanced but is still a dangerous heroe in the right hands. He severely lacks durability but has phenomenal amounts of damage in the early game on top of decent push. The glass cannon effect.
They picked early/mid game and push. You picked late game and opted for sitting lanes farming. You got outpicked and outplayed just accept it and learn from your mistakes.
I didn't know he was such a hard counter to anti-mage, had i known i would have repicked instantly. I was playing with a friend, wanted to play anti-mage, picked first and thought i was going to have a good time with lich bot. I was wrong.
I don't deny i made mistakes, i even had a stupid death where i thought his third skill was going to end so i blinked in to kill him and he just wrecked me cause it lasted 5 seconds more than i thought it would. I played very poorly in that game and could have done better, but that's not why i created this thread. I created this thread because i wanted to share how much of a counter he is in lane.
Btw, you can't really think TB is balanced.
His first skill isn't supposed to deal damage, it's a 5 second 60% slow that applies the enemies UAM to himself, the only thing that scales is the cooldown and illu damage so it's a one point wonder. He has 7 base armor, and 2.3 base hp regen. If he has his first skill and his third skill, it's an almost guaranteed kill by reaching level 2. His illusions are one of the strongest of the game, and his ult is strong as hell though hard to land. Does not have any kind of mana problem. Late game he is worse than naga i think, though he lacks an escape and a skill to clear creeps quickly. Since his illusions are so strong i don't think it really matters.
Sure, he has one of the lowest HP pools from the start, but an early drums fixes that.
I didn't know he was such a hard counter to anti-mage, had i known i would have repicked instantly. I was playing with a friend, wanted to play anti-mage, picked first and thought i was going to have a good time with lich bot. I was wrong.
- he isn't specifically a counter to AM but you have to play AM a lot better in order to survive the early game against a number of early heroes. Example of this is http://dotabuff.com/matches/624928978 your game there which is the one assume-ably you are talking about. Axe can catch you with call and kill you, TB can slow you and chisel you low, invoker can drain your mana leaving you a sitting duck, DK is too tough for you to fight early game, and DP will just silence you in her ult and wreck you. No on specifically counters you there but they all together serve to make your game as an AM impossible and this is why AM is not such a good hero due to requiring the farm to simple overwhelm people.
This is not meant as an offense but you obviously don't play AM as well as you think you do as if you consider that 70% of the heroes in Dota2 are in someway a direct or indirect counter to AM then you have to think why do some succeed where you fail. Why do some people have no issues while you can just barely sustain 50% win rate on your most played carry. AM, Morph, Terrorblade are high tier carries as they require a certain level of skill to play effectively. By this I mean any team willing to leave these 3 alone long enough to out farm them is obviously 3K or below in guaged skill level. Most average players will be actively seeking to prevent farm and this is where your personal skill either shines or doesn't and in your case it doesn't. Most high tier player do not let things like back dooring axes cause them issues and will find ways to maximize in the bad time.
I think terrorblade is 100% balanced but people underestimate the hero which is why most of the time you can get away with hell and high water. Lets lay out some brackets for you here....
2-3k MMR - Terrorblade is used as a hard carry farming for 40 minutes before anyone bothers to touch him.
4-5K MMR - Terrorblade is used as a split pusher and jungle farmer because in this bracket people are hunting him constantly, playing him like a lane farmer (2-3k MMR style) will just get you wrecked. No offense intended to the player but just an example of someone who plays him like this and gets wrecked most of the time http://dotabuff.com/players/134203835 (30% winrate till just recently and even now just barely 50% after 70 odd games)
5-6K MMR - He is composite killer and farmer and all of the above. Why? Because players in this bracket are good enough to do all of the above at the same time.
Terrorblade is easy to kill and even with drums (wow, that 90HP makes him unkillable) he is still unbelievably squishy and can be brought down if done right. Put him down in the same little gay pool as sniper. How do you kill a sniper? Is sniper balanced? The answer is yes, but it doesn't make him any less dangerous and it takes planning and skill. You need to isolate terror, find and gank him (with your team) when he is alone, don't try and fight him alone EVER!, don't let him just rightclick your whole team in team fights etc.
TL;DR Terrorblades greatest advantage or disadvantage is the players skill on the other team and how much resource they are willing to use to shut him down or how much space and farm they give him.
hey no hating on bogi he has 0.67% above 50 on TB now
Anyway I think a reflection nerf will hardly affect any of the 5k+ TB players... like havoc said half the time my safe lane is contested on TB, maybe 1 in 10 games I get some offlaner who has no idea how to play and walks up randomly (e.g. Lifestealer, that hero gets RAPED solo, Rage doesn't dispel Reflection). The rest of the time it's Axe+Dazzle+Lich or some lane that guarantees I get no farm half the time.
I don't know about AM, I have a 35% win rate with him so someone around here was saying I probably play him worse than a 4k player. Would be interesting if I could borrow a 4k account and try playing AM exclusively.
Like i said no offense was intended but he consistently plays (IMO) terrorblade all wrong for his bracket.
http://dotabuff.com/heroes/anti-mage/matchups LOL! AM is just bad vs everyone....winning games for AM is basically being able to outfarm and overwhelm. Even looking back at your game kill wise you guys didn't do that bad (@OP) but you were just pushed to shit and AM can't stop pushes at all before the 35-40 minute mark with at least 3 core items.
#magicproblems
In my opinion there are several types of counters.
Let's take AM as an example:
Light counter which only annoys you a little bit (any hero with an instant stun or silence)
Medium counter is a hero that you should avoid because he will wreck you (Axe because of the 3 second taunt duration + counter helix is physical so doesn't get diminished by spell shield + culling blade cause in the beginning AM doesn't have a lot of health)
Hard counter is the hero that you should absolutely avoid and will wreck you. Turns the strength of your hero against you. I really think terrorblade fits this category because of what i mentioned on my first post.
I don't think that winrate alone tells you how good a player is with a certain hero. Like take my AM for instance, i played him a lot when i was a complete newbie, and since he is a hero that requires skill to play effectively i lost a lot. Not to mention i was up against better players most of the time because i queued with my real life friends that teached me dota. I like to think i play a pretty good AM, but my winrate won't show that.
Edit: Also, that's exactly what happened. They pushed us to death and we couldn't do anything. I even managed a nice ulti against DP but we still couldn't do anything.
Terrorblade absolutely does not counter AM. If you are caught without your blink when he reflects you it's your own damn fault(sic, earthshaker). It does make Terrorblade better against AM than without Reflection, much like how Dark Seer and Shadow Demon are decent against AM, but it doesn't make them a "counter". What I'd call a counter is Bloodseeker which can silence you for very long, or if you have high attack damage he can just rupture you and you can't move, which is crippling combined with Thirst and AM's low HP (Rupture is not magic damage). And anyone with a normal Silence or hard disable that lasts more than 3 seconds can be considered a counter as well. Terrorblade? No.
Terrorblade owns everyone in lane, it's the hero that's overpowered, not the fact that he counters a specific hero. He can beat most lanes because a good disable or two with Metamorphosis and Reflection means a dead person. Can Anti-Mage do that? Can Spectre do that?
Compare the pub winrate on other carries. The only ones that come close are Spectre who has global pickoff (pubs don't know how to 5 man very much) and Phantom Lancer who has invis (pubs don't buy invis detection until he escapes you a few times). But he's still at the top of the list because of his strong presence throughout. And I mean "strong" – not just a normal carry who is decent in lane, like Luna or Lifestealer, but his early game can even be compared to heroes who have excellent early game, yet he retains the superb late game performance with illusions and Sunder.
Playing AM vs a TB is quite hard. Your only hope is to outfarm him and out split push him. Every hero has some really good lane counters to be quite honest. From my personal experience, an easy lane counter to lane TB is Jug with a slow. I've seen this way too many times for it to be even funny.
Back to the AM. Usually, for AM to be effective you need to give him a good start like a FB or something. Almost all my AM games that I've won were due to lane dominance. Maxed mana break with 1 blink and 1 spell shield wrecks a lot of lanes (especially those pesky PL pickers)
Terrorblade is a harder carry than AM on a head on fight, he is a 3 star carry where as AM is a two star, however the starts shouldn't really matter.
however that reflection shouldnt be a problem cause you have a 5cd blink, if you blinked into terrorblade at the wrong time, its your fault.
AM can own terrorblade if you time your initiation right. I mean you can catchup and run away from him where as he can't do the same, not to mention burn his mana.
its a matter of who gets the first start
generally AM would have faster BAT and build a basher/manta, so he could pounce the main TB relatively quickly
though same goes the other way around, reflect AM right after he blinks, pop metamorph/manta/illusion, bam dead.
> he is a 3 star carry where as AM is a two star
do people actually take this star rating seriously
It's hard to say if TB is balanced or not. His power is really when combined with the right support, it's like free kills if your lane isn't setup ideally, but he is quite squishy, no real disables later. It's just at lvl 2-3 with one stun from a CM or jakiro he's almost guaranteed first blood.
ITT people still citing the "number of stars" next to the description as a valid indicator of how hard a hero can carry
pl has 2 stars, so do clinkz and weaver, wow clinkz and weaver are just as good as pl late game ahuehuehue
Some of the stars do make sense, i guess the number of stars indicates from valves perspective who needs more farm and scales better later game. But yeah the stars don't mean everything, I used it for simplicity's sake.
Man, Beesa finally posts on this forum, and all he says is 'get good'. The hell are we supposed to do with 'get good'? He shoulda at least said something like 'skill x over y versus hero z, noob' or something ;_;
stars mean nothing
abaddon doesn't even have a category does that mean he is a useless hero
am is just a bad hero. tb is just a good hero.
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Oh my fucking god i just played vs creep skipping axe and lane terrorblade.
His first skill deals so much fucking damage to you, its unreal. I shouldn't have even skilled it. He uses reflection on you once, and you no longer have mana or health. If he uses it while your blink is on cooldown, you're dead. Balanced hero guys. Not to mention he deals a fuck ton of damage with his third skill.