nope unless u have already scepter and some from of life steal. Unless the other team has no stunners or massive AOE, butter would be some 4th or 5th slot item, behind bkb and dominator. I'd rather opt for deadalus than BF, cuz you can crit much higher than splash late game.
Cheap damage source that removes his lack of mana regen. Dunno why, but with the aghs upgrade I never go for bfury unless there's some mgagnus or enigma in my the team.
BlinkDagger (can be used druring omnishalsh and looks hilarous as hell with bladefury) is now again an awesome option for jag since they nerfed shadowblade so hard.
Both Battlefury and Aghs sucks on him imo. You better off go with Drums into Yasha. Then you can get Manta/Diffusal/Basher. After you got 2 of these items, you should look towards a Butterfly/Abbysal Blade/MKB (if needed)/Mjollnir. Some other good but rare items are Satanic, BKB, AC, Vlads if your team needs one, or even a Hex is good on him.
why blink dagger when SB is the common ninja build on him? Omnislash into windwalk. He needs sceptor for HP. Have you seen his HP at level 11-16? Phaseboots, shadowblade, sceptor, deadalus, mkb... satanic.. game should be over before completing satanic unless ur team fed.
shadow blade is the most useless rtifact in the game! (comes from a person that really loves (-ed) it). Try the blink build, it's much hillarity guarnteed!
bladefury -> TP? why need SB
vlads->agha->deso->basher
bladefury is all time escape mechanism mate, it's not useless late game
I hate Battlefury on him. I much prefer mid game items that allow you to wreck when he is at his peak relative to other carries. I almost always go Yasha into Deso
BF isnt bad item on none of the carries that need some constant mana regen (hp regen doesnt harm too), especially for their abilities. But some items are just probably better and more usefull for them. But by any means, BF isnt a bad item on him.
@Quote Sam
Both Battlefury and Aghs sucks on him imo. You better off go with Drums into Yasha. Then you can get Manta/Diffusal/Basher. After you got 2 of these items, you should look towards a Butterfly/Abbysal Blade/MKB (if needed)/Mjollnir. Some other good but rare items are Satanic, BKB, AC, Vlads if your team needs one, or even a Hex is good on him.
Sums up everything.
I always thought Battlefury was the sort of item which you get with the intention of getting six slotted. Juggernaut is more of a midgame carry than late. His only steroid -- the crit -- is one of the worst in the game.
Think of it as a snowball item. Jugger's strength is in his mid game. If your aim of a BF on him is to farm until the 30 minute mark, it's a waste.
not sure why people are hating on aghas. it gives great stats/hp (midgame steroid) plus the cooldown reduction means you can use it more freely and more often.
juggs autoattack damage is pretty horrendous relatively speaking so it doesnt make sense to try and focus on that entirely.
There is a blog post in the works that answers the question in the title) Will try to finish editing it and upload it in the next several days
in the meantime: New Blog Post
Battlefury is considered a classic snowball item on Jug. Allows him to push faster and raw dmg is decent as well, the mp/hp regen is somewhat redundant on him since his spells are either high cd (not something you want to spam outside of healing ward) or one-off with high mp cost (meaning stats> mp regen for the point of casting his spells). However it is NOT the best item considering how changes to 6.79 has resulted in faster paced games where usual counters to omnislash, ghost scept and fs can be gotten at an earlier timing compared to previous map versions.
Hand of Midas + Vlads > Battlefury.
1. Overall cost of HOM + vlads is marginally lower than Bfury
2. Comparing the components of bfury to HOM or vlads. HOM and/or vlads provide much more reliable benefits in the form of XP gain and pushing power in vlads components as compared to the pushing power you only get upon completion of bfury.
3. MP/HP regen and pushing power of bfury is only marginally more beneficial than what a single component of vlads, the basi ring, provides (two if you decide to buy ring of regen for early hp regen); consider the fact that basi ring is dirt cheap and actually provides jug the pushing power in early stages of the game where your opposition will not be able to counter your ult .
4. Basi Ring OP item
Imo core items for Jug should be as follows; item progression generally depends on the flow of each game
1. Phase boots
2. HOM
3. Vlads
4. Drum
5. Aghs Scept
6. Any item of choice to replace HOM, Diffu, Deso, Mkb etc..
Very, and I mean veryyy situational item. This is only for chinese doto players, not recommended normally. People think BFury works on him because, almost like PA, he can crit, and therefore is a hardddd carry who needs to farm jungle for 20 minutes. Yes, juggernaut is a hard carry, but he is also SUPER effective during mid game because of spin and ulti, and he can also push really well with ward, so early and mid game items like drums are better options.
I like to run Drums --> HoD --> maelstrom ---> aghs. Sometimes i get the aghs before the maelstrom.
Then i finish satanic, Mjollnir, or i might get a manta.
Jugg is actually one of the strongest early fighters with spin/heal/ult, so should not go for BF nor HOM I feel. He needs to snowball to get items otherwise he's useless late game against forcestaffs (disjoints ult, kites spin), armor whoring (9 slashes against a team with mek armor, RoB is pitiful) and ghost sceps (soaks slashes without damage).
IMHO, phase boots, drums and vlads are the way to go early game. From there it's deso/diff +Ags I feel (these two shouldn't be rushed). BF really boosts the mid game farm and ult damage....but I've seen too many noobs with brown boots, quelling blade and RoB at 15 minutes :(
Jug is not a farming hero. His magic immunity and strong early ability dmg make him a great early/mid game fighter. He should not be jungling or doing the rat doto lane farming with battlefury.
Also jug has very poor early stats. While battlefury helps his mana regen it does nothing for his mana pool to let him bladefury and ult in the same fight. I know many jug players who actually put a couple levels in stats early (like their 2nd and 3rd levels sometimes). That's why aghs is good on him, he desperately needs the stats. Drums is also really good for that reason as is SnY.
^ lol no SnY should NEVER be built at all. It is the most thrashcan item in the whole game. The slow is useless and not even reliable, even a cheaper item like atos has a reliable 60% slow with same duration that has actually decent cast range.
6% differential from its yasha component in ms boost doesn't justify the item at all... and drums by far is more cost efficient and useful as compared to yasha.
Necrobook>Manta>SnY
SnY is awesome on Slark, Naix and decent on Morph, Gyro and Bloodseeker... pls don't call it trashcan
First of all Vanguard is the worst item in dota. Second, SnY gives movement speed, attack speed, damage, strength, agility, and a slow (skullbasher is also unreliable too, so what?), it works really well on a lot of heroes and the components are cheap.
That's why imo sny is thrashcan. Sure it provides a little of everything (most importantly ms boost) but the rest of its benefits (stats included) are not even on par with what other items can give. In most cases, building it generally hampers your item progression rendering you a useless melee creep with shit dps. It is only useful for certain select heroes like naix..
on a side note, skullbasher may be unreliable but it has two things over sny.
1. Disable>slows in most cases
2. Can be built into abyssal for the guaranteed bkb disable.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
Sorry dude, but even if you were right about the SnY thing, suggesting HoM on Jugger just made your opinions a lot less impressive. It's not really a very loved item in these forums, specially on strong early-mid game heroes.
Since it is now an SnY thread I would like to put my 2 cents in)
I've been avoiding the item for a while, since I had a general belief it is really bad for its cost. But since the reduction to cost, it is now somewhat Ok on _ranged_ agi heroes IF you don't need the disjoint aspect of manta style or some other items really fast (e.g. BkB/Orchid).
Why do I think it's Ok?
Well, it has some really nice stats as well as the highest MS increase. It gives the Agi carries much needed survivability.
Most importantly, though, is the Slow aspect of it - it goes through magic immunity (BkB) and can greatly reduce the incoming DpS from heroes like Sven, Naix etc. It is not an optimal item for kiting (ForceStaff is still better), but it provides more in terms of Damage and pure HP.
I would not recommend getting it on melee heroes, unless you want to go Manta + Halberd afterwards. As a transition item it is really good. (though I honestly cannot recall anyone getting Manta + Halberd in competitive for a while now, since one resigns in the Carry domain, while the other one is a better fit for supports)
i dont like syy...its pretty useless...i only end up making it on bs or some random other hero cause i lack gold to do anything else and need some game impact....that +ms r+hp rly make a difference
S&Y is pretty good but will slow you to get your sceptor, mkb, desolator etc...
I don't usually build s&y but I was mentioning it cus it has stats and jug needs stats. That's my point. He needs hp as well as dmg and since he's not a bkb hero it means you better build something else with str.
for 1st big item. battlefury bad. scept also bad on jugg
get mek or vlad.
Pushing ftw. max healing ward at lv7. get mek vlad HoD and Necro3.
That is some interesting New Meta stuff)
Vlads as a first items is really bad - 15% Damage AMP at these lvls give you 15 damage at the very best (it is Base damage only)
16% lifesteal - 20 HP regen at the very best from 1 autoattack in a second. Not too good.
5 bonus armour look great, but then again - too little HP, still easy to burst down.
Getting a point booster, then yasha and finishing the Agh's by 17-18 minute mark is possible and makes the most sense.
The skillbuild is interesting, and I believe it can be utilised in aggressive pushing strategies with high HP low armour teammates. Will give it a try at some point)
am I the only one who absolutely hates aghs on him?
I just think its a complete waste of slot.
anyways what I usually do is phase/drums/sb/diffu/fly w/e
Mek & vlad jug, lol. This is the guy who loses like 50% of games even if he got BF early. http://dotabuff.com/players/67902131/matches?hero=juggernaut&game_mode=&match_type=real
u guys all sux, bfury is imba on jug, bfury also works with his ulti, bfury is a must on jug if ur farming well, if ur not u can opt to skip it, but if ur doing well and u arent getting fury u sux dix
@[A]dmiralBullshit
before posting link to other people's hero match history, be sure to have better history and winrate. ;-D
http://dotabuff.com/players/47400225/matches?hero=juggernaut&game_mode=&match_type=real
If you look at every game i lost. My team sucks. I've had postive KDR. But can't carry team if they are feeding.
Well since my thread just turned into a SnY thread might as well contribute.
I think it's an item that suck on pretty much all heroes except for a few, namely Jugg. It's because every single thing it provides goes well with Jugg. The attack speed and damage go well with your crit, the MS goes well with your already high MS, the extra strength goes well with your ward (the only hero with a max HP heal has one of the lowest max HP, strange).
Even the Maim is good, it's litteraly a 16% chance to apply an enhanced CM frozen nova on ALL of your right clicks.
I love sny, not sure why there's so much hate. Good build up item, and gives great stats for right clickers which is pretty much unique to the game. With upgraded boots, the sny holder will have 400+ ms passively. Also, it's the only middle tier item for dpsers which provides a good amount of HP besides bkb. Gives strength right clickers needed atk speed and agi right clickers needed HP.
MS is a really important factor imo which is why I pretty much always get phase over treads. Main reasons treads over phase is if bottling or a blinker. I guess that's a different topic.
And for these reasonings, I'm also a huge fan of Euls. Great build up item (especially for poor supports), and the ms is huge.
"If you look at every game i lost. My team sucks. I've had postive KDR. But can't carry team if they are feeding."
LMAO
Max healing ward at 7 is very situational and depends on your team makeup and whether you can get them to 5 man push.
If you are maxing healing ward at 7, you are playing in MMR rating WAAAAYY too high for your skill. I get only rank 1 or 2 at most versus stronger players.
I dont understand this all you are saying is build Battlefury for mana fuck the idiotic popularity with bf on jugg started cause of that retarded 5 man wipe/one ulti back in like Dota like 6.50ish (yes i mean dota 1) then it just kept going and the excuse allways been mana and other shit like ooh good farm with bf. (WTF!?=!?!?!?!!?!? YOU LASTHIT TO FARM U DONT AUTO!!!! . )
HAVE NO ONE HEARD OF MANA POTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Only time i can think of that Battlefury is somewhat usefull without counting like Blackhole and similar spells is when you want to split push very fast or you have a strat revolving around stacking neutrals or something like that.
But thats just my thaughts on it (:
I shall try the drums->yasha->diffu/manta/basher thingy :))
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It just seems to me that it's almost always better to rush some phase boots and aghs on him as he becomes a serious treath mid game. The cleave damage sure is nice but all you usually do with jugg is basically ult and then spin, you don't even really right click in fights untli late game where Bladefury becomes useless.