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Czesio gra

    Save the whales !! :)


      Very well said, as a mostly pos 5 player I feel like aggressive supports are more effective than the safe ones. Only exception here for me however, is abaddon, since you can feel quite comfortable in the midst of battle and help your teammates from wherever.


        agree and well said.


          I feel like theyre definitly underwhelming in a sense that the burst just outweighs the heals in bigger fights especially, on the other heals or similar saves work just fine on smaller clashes or chases. I think its hard to find a balance in that asepct


            They should just give them their cast range back if they are not planning on changing the system further in a way that makes that unnecessary


              I would also like to add problem of giving cores a lot of counter items to some saves/buffs/heals. Most noticeably, regen reducing items, amount of which is just too much(vessel, shiva, skadi), I get they are good against heroes that have very high healing like alchemist and morphling, but it also counters heroes, which have certain amount of healing, but taking them down was never that big of a deal, this includes save supports mentioned in the article(dazzle, abbadon, omni), but also, some other non support, but still underplayed characters like death prophet. Another overpowered item, imo , is nullifier, which I think is a totally busted against certain picks, because it completely negates most of the save items or even skills, for example, oracle may still be able to cast ultimate on teammate, but he would not be able to heal teammate with his 3rd skill(it will actually only do damage), salve or urn, not to mention inability to use any common save item. And this effect lasts for 5 seconds, which is a lot. There are other heroes countered too much by this item, like pugna, another hero with very few picks. Not to mention the fact, that null recently got alternative, witchbane, which is just a neutral item, that can be even better in some occasions. I don't get why nullifier, an item that has 14 second cd and costs 5k gold counters aeon disk that has 120+cd or wind waker, which costs 6.5k gold, whereas nullifier itself is not countered by anything(not counting bkb or linken ofc), same goes for skadi and shiva(and they are not even countered by bkb).


                Two thinks happened I believe

                First, because there was plenty of cast range, balance team again and again buffed heroes that had too much mobility (the Spirit brothers), so that they could be another way of playing Dota compared to casting lots of spells a screen away. However when cast range talents got removed, Aether as standalone item got nerfed and some cast range has been nerfed, the Spirits haven't been properly nerfed. So now, save is too weak because its too easy to jump on supports.

                The second is that it doesn't apply to Legion, hence, why Legion is a popular pick now. Legion still has excellent cast range on PtA, and jumping on a Legion with a Spirit will often fail: Legion is too tanky compared to a support, and her passive/Duel allows her to not only survive the jump but also disable the Spirit for a significant amount of time, if not killing it.

                Max Nukem

                  This is a great article. Not an obvious thing people think about or talk about on reddit, short and concise, backed up with facts.


                    please save me

                    low prio master

                      Make wisp true pos 5 healer strong again, amplified mac and holy locket is nice but in these days super powerful heroes boosted with talents and neutral items are much more capable than in past, some short bkb tethered unit would talent would be amazing


                        There were strong showings from Bane and Weaver, who are not traditionally thought of as save supports, but the invuln from Nightmare and the crazy turn potential of Aghanim's Time Lapse were both key components of why they were successful. I agree that some cost reduction on Force would be nice, and really Wind Waker should be significantly less expensive imo (since I'm a HoN vet, probably), and the supports here you list could all be improved. But save as a concept is strong as ever. It's just the face of it that's changed.


                          oracle is still decent, but only with very specific teammates like huskar

                          Player 100467150

                            i need a save hero irl

                            low prio master

                              Agreed with article but you didn't mention wisp, relocate might be strong saving ability, but it got nerfed years ago now its still very much about predicting to be able save someone due to high cast time.
                              I also realised from years ago till now the wisp losing support ability slowly, in my opinion he's still better core now on solo pubs - which i don't really like.
                              Mac 100mana cost was nice buff to all saving heroes and good way but in these days incredibly powerful cores with neutral items too mac and guardian greaves i think would need buff considering all above.


                                Very true