General Discussion

General DiscussionThoughts on Axe as a pos 1

Thoughts on Axe as a pos 1 in General Discussion
Mad Scientist

    His talent at level 10 and 20 really really interesting, I personally try this build and become some right clicker with my call and blademail turns out super effective for pesky riki and shadow friend

    https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3864689006

    Oldman

      it can work as a solo safe or mid against line ups with AM, Weaver, jugg, Storm, clinkz etc. But still u need someone that can carry if something goes wrong.

      NO_Electricity

        Axe brings the Axe
        So Why just not bring Axe to brings the Axe to offlane/jungle and just go carry build axe isn't pos 1/2
        PS:pos 1 is mid pos 2 is carry

        bojji-sama

          Pos 1 carry pos 2 mid xD

          Shou

            I mean safelane axe might be ok if you have a favorable lane
            Mid is usually a lost lane for a melee hero like axe

            ETd

              Position depends on farm priority. 1 being the highest, 5 being the lowest. The other definition is based on "role"
              1-late game,safelane hard carry
              2-midlaner, tempo control
              3-offlane, utility core
              4-greedy support, roamer
              5-hard support, safelane support
              But the 2nd definition is so obsolete because the game is more dynamic than the static lanes of before. So it's usually based on the former, farm priority. You could have a mid Dusa that is pos 1 because her farm is prioritized over your safelane PL. In an aggro tri, the CK taking the last hits is pos 1, not the Weaver you've left in your safelane, or your mid DP.

              low prio master

                In early push strategy might work,no doubt he cant carry late as good as standard carries.
                Also dont see reason why pick him on safelane.
                You pick axe when you want rekt their weak safelane.
                Weak safelane means pretty much any agi core.

                ETd

                  On the topic, you could play Axe as pos1 in the sense of highest farm priority. But if you're trying to force pos1 in terms of right-clicking carry, it's sub-par, Axe is all about getting hit to deal dmg, pos1 carries prefer to deal their damage by themselves while avoiding getting hit

                  sia

                    It's one of those things that can work but since it's never been on meta it seems weird.

                    Like u have farm speed with e, u get power tread blink MoM or smth into stuff like blademail, bkb, sny, mjollnir. And it can totally work.

                    One of the few weird things i think is worth the try cuz it's not useless like offlane spectre it actually has high farm speed, high dps, solo kill potential, and late game scalability and tankiness and stuff

                    Semeone just killed you fool

                      Axe can't carry.

                      Kotato

                        the only way axe can carry is versus full melee enemy :D otherwise i do not see why enemy will not counter him somehow

                        Chiwa

                          Get phase boot , sange yasha on axe and win game

                          Shou

                            Go vanguard blink blademail manta ac abyssal or smth equivalent

                            Fiery Soul

                              OK mid lane axe will win against most melee hero (In lower rank brackets in upper rank brackets no chance of axe mid lane).
                              Initial Phase -level 1-5
                              Just dnt push mindlessly and try to deny a lot, when enemy melee mid laner comes to lh u can ezily hit him and creeps will start to hit u so u will helix (but dont do this to often as this will push yr wave and give him farm near tower and u r more susceptible to gank if u try to lh near enemy tower).

                              After geting Regenrative items & Level -6-9
                              Stack camps as much as posibe and keep pushing lane creeps waves axe can ezily push waves.
                              Take jungle camps while enmy mid deals with yr creps wave . after fast blink and bmail simply try to gank as much as posbile.
                              With evry ks(*coughs) i mean culling blade u will get lot of golds and Xp .
                              Then push as fast as possible and try to end game fast as possible.

                              flourishing new leaf

                                It works, but it isn't fun to play. And neither is it easy to pull off

                                Mythkos

                                  You could technically build a carry on any hero with enough of a gold advantage/snowball, so Axe carry does work but why bother?

                                  1. Axe has no skills that are synergistic with right click damage. He can't scale his damage into late game, hence isn't a late game carry.

                                  2. His level 20 Helix talent isn't as good as it sounds. Axe doesn't scale attack speed, and you only will proc 1 helix on average every 5 of your own attacks for 180dmg. So it equates to roughly +36 true damage per attack that DOES NOT SCALE with any other abilities/items.

                                  3. Axe's main damage source (spin) doesn't scale with items, so it doesn't scale into late game.

                                  4. Axe wants to be tanky to maximize his damage through being in the middle of fights and would reduce his spin damage by optimizing for right click. This is anti-synergistic.

                                  All-in-all, Axe can carry. Axe is best if he can snowball vs. a melee heavy lineup and maximize his early-midgame presence and true damage from spin. But if you want to run him as a safelane carry, remember that you have zero tools to scale into late game and generally will get out-carried by most other regular carries.

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                                  Shou

                                    Axe does scale into late
                                    He has a bkb piercing disable, and counter helix deals pure dmg
                                    He is sort of an anti carry with blademail, and though he lacks attack speed for counter helix talent naturally, you are playing a different position so you just fill that gap with treads sny/manta
                                    He farms fast, can group early, scales decent, has team fight and solo pickoff, only reason to not run him safelane is that other heroes have higher farm priority and axe can do these things from the offlane usually.

                                    Rocket

                                      He doesn’t have any ability that scales. Even culling blade is a fixed damage amount.

                                      If you mean pos 1 as give him farm priority at the start of the game then sure that could work to make space for a proper carry but nothing in his skill set says carry.

                                      Luxon

                                        No matter the position you take +20 regen.

                                        Northway

                                          i mean do you even understand what position 1 mean, even with the shitty attack spin talent (may be ok with manta style), it is still going to be shitty in late game. +20 reg is way better. Another easy example, bloodseeker with thirst and thirst talent, night stalker with his passive and lvl 25 passive talent and lc talent. No matter how much farm they have, they cant beat actual late carries, in teamfight if both get the item they are supposed to. Some hero excel in early game, some in mid game and some in late game. Just because some hero that has talent that can help them with their weak late game or mid game doesnt mean it will make them a strong late game carry

                                          JDF8

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                                            Shou

                                              Mantastyle is a good item

                                              Jacked

                                                Yea it's possible but your build is completely wrong for a carry. I'll post back with my experiment.

                                                Jacked

                                                  Axe cArry works.

                                                  Pom Pom 🍕

                                                    You don't pick him as a pos1, but if the enemy has a fat illusion hero (especially CK with heart) that doesn't lose its illusions to you and your team's aoe damage you can consider the helix talent and 5th/6th-slot mjølnir (the active of it is really good on Axe, so it's not purely for attack speed to counterhelix), but your roles should still be initiation and crowd-control, not damage-dealing. Most games you win as right-clicking Axe are games you'd win with any build on Axe. Building Axe as purely a right-clicker will make him squishy, and a squishy axe will get bursted down and die in 5v5 team fights since he's always in the middle of the battle, initiating on enemy heroes so his team can focus the enemies, that's what he does best. If you want an aoe right-click hero with a disable who's also naturally tanky just pick Sven.

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                                                    Mad Scientist

                                                      it's been a while and i asked my divine 3 friend and he said it's super situational depends on what's the enemy line up too, in my case that worked out idk in your game tho. feel free to share your experiment here :grimace:

                                                      moriwooper

                                                        I mean..... maybe for the luls......
                                                        But he would be much more useful as an offlaner tho.

                                                        Emon

                                                          axe is comparable to ursa in a sense that he depends on kills too much and could only work as a purely space creator carry and not the main carry

                                                          evy

                                                            can work

                                                            Chiquita

                                                              absolutely, if you :
                                                              1. don't mind the enemy offlaner get all if not most of the exp and farm from the creeps
                                                              2. they don't dual lane (which would make it very hard to get your necessary early levels - remember, there's a reason offlane axe has so much trouble getting online)
                                                              3. you have good map control that lets you farm and/or push their t1 and t2 before 9-10 minutes

                                                              the big question is if all of these triggers are there you could just pick Bristleback, Alchemist, or Timber - so why would you pick axe instead?

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                                                              Shou

                                                                Axe isn't that bad of a laner especially with battle hunger

                                                                Kotato

                                                                  anything can be a pos1 :D except this bloodseeker :P

                                                                  DC.MASON

                                                                    suprise lastpick carry axe can absolutely crush certain games

                                                                    Jacked

                                                                      axe is very strong. why would u pick trash heroes like bristle alch or timber

                                                                      MIXER

                                                                        suprise lastpick carry axe can absolutely crush certain games

                                                                        yours, to be precise

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