@Heraldus cancerous
You just mentioned five teams, I'm guessing a large percent of the community are a fan of at least one of those teams or players on one of those teams. That's beside the point though. Every season is going to have a handful of teams that are going to get the short end of the stick because some team gets the popular vote.
How about we increase the qualifiers' slots so more lower tier teams can have their chance?
Make the group stage a huge fest!
Reduce it back. 3 majors 4 minors. Every tourney must be 16 teams no direct invites. Any team that wins major or minor goes to TI. Hold another 16 team tourney month before TI any team not already going plays. Top 5 teams at tourney go to TI badda bing. To many tourneys right now. Simplify.
@Cheap Laugh Guy
I'm in favor of full points invites, I'm also in favor of spreading points earned further down placements for tourneys, but that was for another thread
As for increasing qualifier slots, I stated my feelings on the advantages of less teams vying for a spot, but more teams could make it if some of those slots weren't filled by invites. But still, VP being invited or having to qualify, they will make it, so it's hard to say that it is effectively increasing slots for OTHER teams.
@nemesis
Let's kill practically every smaller 3rd party tournament LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL 4Head
I'm all for removing invites to majors. Actually it wouldn't be so bad if there are no invites to TI. Everyone should go through the dark and arduous qualifiers.
DPC is a flop, i have said this multiple times before. points are extremely top heavy and even now just getting top2 in a major because of a retarded single elim bracket can get you to top8 while minors are almost worthless.
I agree. This direct invite mechanics is sometimes broken as fuck. Top teams stays on top coz all the direct invites goes to them. Meanwhile, the lower tier teams battle it out on a qualifier.
DPC points should be rescaled, especially in the major; where the winners gets the lion share. It should distributed more equally imo.
@HanYolo
That would negate any reason to have DPC points though. I see DPC points as a way of showing who deserves to go to the 'playoffs' of Dota, something almost every sport out there has in some form or another. The issue that arises with invites to majors is that they give a leg up to teams before all the results are tallied.
I didn’t say remove third party tournaments. They simply wouldn’t mean anything besides winning money. They need to remove some of the tournaments anyways there is way to many of them. Fans can’t keep track of them all unless you’re 12 and have nothing else going on in life. And the overwhelming majority of the minors are only pulling 1-2 elite teams. Oh look it’s another minor WOW VP vs SG-Esports... I’m sure that will be a close series.
If they don't mean anything, and every major is weighted to guarantee TI, u can imagine how much attention will get shunted away from them
@NA+Cl
Looking at the ongoing problems surrounding the Supermajor invites, I think Nemesis is very correct here. Too many tournaments with overlapping qualifiers puts even more emphasis on the advantage of getting an invite, and teams are ANGRY about it. Besides, I don't think it is such a bad thing that some of these lower quality tournaments get the boot. To ensure the quality of the tourneys, the sanity and energy of the players, and by extension the stability of the league as a whole, I'm on board with having better, fewer events.
Imagine all teams had to go through bo 1 qualifiers for Ti . This chesse picks and strats are much more fun to watch then usual games, and also more small teams had a Chance to play in t1.
![[D2F].Johan](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/07/078661d37e21cd5aaf53fcd5b75178a7754d1ab5_full.jpg "[D2F].Johan")
WTF is this post. regardless of the rules is, there is still qualifier match to get slot into TI. LOL.
Honestly who cares? Look at the teams in top 8, are there any teams you would realistically swap for someone else? Maybe vgj thunder for like fnatic or eg but that’s it. It is top heavy and system has issues but it’s doing what it’s supposed to do by being objective about ti invites instead of just valve picking the current hot teams.
If thats the case for ppd then itll be unfair for the teams who farmed up their points in order for them to stand at the upper echelon of the rankings. I think ppd should focus on playinh annd winning games because if they really have what it takes to qualify they would qualify even if they have all the odds against them
Well he has a point because EG and OG are both invited. OG has been pretty terrible and made a roster change so isn't even eligible for points. EG has lost their last couple qualifiers while optic got through one or two. I don't necessarily agree that optic is stronger than eg right now though. EG has had some really bad draws at valve events, having to play vp and liquid all the time. They're actually holding their own, well over 50%, they'll win in group stage and go 1-2 in playoffs it seems.
But ultimately like I said neither EG or optic are good enough to secure a top 8 dpc ranking right now imo so it doesn't matter that much. Chinese teams have a much more legitimate gripe since there are 3-4 contenders and outside of direct invites they can't all make tournaments due to regions. Same with sea, mineski, fnatic and tnc are all better than optic and eg right now.
@Dire Wolf
Spreading the points further down the placements would do a better job of showing who is best though. Consider the fact that Mineski jumped into invite territory from winning a single major, and compare that against a team like EG who, while they have had their problems, still have made it to 5th enough times to still be considered a better team than Mineski probably is. The fact that a win at the SuperMajor will net you all the points you need means you don't actually need to be consistent throughout the course of the season, i.e. being currently hot really does net you an invite.
I agree that DPC is far better than the situation the league was in previously, but scrutinizing the system is how we improve. Besides, anyone who is a fan of Dota probably likes getting detailed about stuff, and this is pretty detailed.
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A new complaint has risen in the race for DPC points, and it revolves around an issue I thought would have more complaints by this point: invites. For those of you who haven't heard, PPD is unhappy because two teams, EG and OG (not his own Optic Gaming team) have privately been invited to the final DPC tourney of the year: the Supermajor. Whether his information is correct or not I don't know, but his complaint is that any winnings they earn possibly mean that other teams will miss out on DPC points they desperately need. Right now, a first place finish at the Supermajor guarantees a top 8 finish and a direct invite to TI.
I think PPD is right. One could argue that tournament organizers are free to invite the teams they want within the stipulations Valve has set up. Tournament organizers certainly want people to watch their events, so they are likely going to invite teams with popular players. It certainly makes monetary sense, but it's hard to say it bases itself on any solid level of balance or fairness. I think the problem is spread across a few kinks in the system, and can't be squashed with any single change.
First, the very fact that tournaments are allowed to directly invite teams leaves the system open to scrutiny. It can be argued that high points teams shouldn't be invited because they shouldn't be given any extra advantages, but it can just as easily be argued that low points teams don't deserve the invites. Either avenue stresses the fact that an invite provides a team a way of hiding their strategies and reducing the work required to win a tournament. Basing those invites off of points means it's theoretically easy to stay at the top (the same principle as a Modern Warfare killstreak, albeit not as severe), while basing the invites on regions means worse teams might get preferential treatment due to their location. It's probable that a good team, like VP, will earn their points regardless of an invite, but automatically giving them a pass means the two slots given to a region with three good teams will cripple an otherwise capable team (Complexity is sometimes viewed as having this problem).
I say remove invites entirely. Every team earns their slot the same way, and there can be no question who deserves it. It's true that regions play a part in this imbalance, but it's less feasible to pit the entire world against each other during online qualifiers.
Second, reduce the number of allowed participants in open qualifiers, but require or increase the entry fee to ensure the most committed teams fill the slots. Altogether, the amount of games played by professionals is inordinately high, and a general reduction of games via fewer teams in smaller qualifying brackets will produce higher quality games and a more manageable schedule, possibly even allowing the option for the qualifiers to be entirely televised and commentated.
Third, Valve should require any top 8 direct invitees to participate in EVERY tournament to be eligible for said direct invite. Wiggle room could be provided for teams that mathematically cannot finish below top 2 if they stop competing. This also requires a lot of visa red tape etc, so it's more of a goal than anything.
Fourth, trade rules should be slightly relaxed, and the trade deadline should be placed a little closer to TI, perhaps even allowing more trading between tournaments earlier in the season. This would aid in the prevention of the situation we currently have, where more than a couple teams are ineligible for anything but open qualifying.
Obviously the most important of these issues to me is the issue of direct invites that are clearly at the mercy of tournament organizer bias, and we have seen evidence of this more than once this season. Other than that, I'm curious to hear what people think about DPC and any changes they think are necessary. If you think I'm whiny, rest assured, I am.