if u get radiance u can at least snipe supports
if u get bf ure just spectre with bf =)
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3665434527
Yay, of course. Battlefury provides so much more than radiance. You are right. As I said when I first came up with this build, you have to ignore the logic of the masses. People will look for every reason to shit on you. But if you win the game as I have done, you will silence your critics.
The main problem with radiance is how Long you take to farm it. With battlefury you get sustain which spectre really needs. You can quickly farm up other items that make spectre a nightmare as well (you are not JUST a spec with battlefury - that expression is just wrong)
The problem with radience is that it did not offer any stats or regen and the cost was quite absurd for hero like Spectre that have the most slow farming rate as carry.
i disagree saying you can't snipe support with BF spectre, you can still haunt in and aim them. If you say the burn damage help a lot to destroy enemy support, then yes i agreed on it. But support those day make glimmer cape to negate it, and the enemy making glimmer is easier than making radience as Spectre.
The purpose on BF is for fast farming, so you get your item fast and aim their support. The moment you have radience(5150 gold), i already have BF that cost 4100 gold, and i still have over 1050 gold surplus and because i make BF first, i can farm faster, and make another item like diffusal or manta to snipe supports.
u heavily underestimate just how greeedy spectre already is
the hero is innately extremely passive, permamently gluing at least 1 support to her lane, doesn't benefit from perservervance nearly as much as am/pl/pa/mk, doesn't synergize with cleave since desolate is a separate dmg instance, does absolutely nothing with bf except continuing eating up space(am can split with bf, pa can fight with bf, pl can split + he doesnt fight directly until later in the game anyway)
theres a lot of borderline meme stereotypes like "uhh am/pl/dusa is a -1 hero for 25 minutes" but bf spectre is literally a -1 hero for 25 minutes, any meta carry destroys her and not only that but other lanes suffer as well because u tie ur supports' hands with ur pick
if u dont believe me go ahead and play ur wonderful build in pubs and then count the times u lose 30 mins in with enemy supports having twice the level of urs and ur mid being 1/7 w/ 400 gpm(surely it won't be ur fault)
Why would spec be a -1 hero if he gets his item sooner instead of 25-30 mins of non existence trying to farm radiance. Spec if anything, can split easily with bf and join fights with haunt more than heroes like am.
You know with the sustain he doesn't need so much support attention as well. I don't agree with your statement that spec doesn't benefit from sustain as much as other heroes like AM.
You only play 1 Spectre Dreux and you already know the insight of how badly BF is
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/160739465/matches?hero=spectre
I have thousands game of it and know the pain of making radience
have also try game that rush manta diffu drum aquila and skip radience
in old meta radience is good, but with many changes, i think somehow some hero need to change too, remember how many people insulted desolator pa ? and how now people making desolator on her instead bf ?
i just wanna know why you think perserverance won't help her much , it was basically a ring of health for her.
Spectre main weakness is sustain, both from hp and mana regen.
If you can't decide, we can solve this conflict easily by taking the middle ground:
just go for the best of both worlds: take Demon Edge from the BF and Sacred Relic from Radiance
see, problem solved.
You only play 1 Spectre Dreux and you already know the insight of how badly BF is
i have lost enough games with spectre as my carry to guess what would happen
n old meta radience is good, but with many changes, i think somehow some hero need to change too, remember how many people insulted desolator pa ? and how now people making desolator on her instead bf ?
never seen anyone flame desolator pa ever since its changed to be 3500 and abyssal seized to be a damage item
i just wanna know why you think perserverance won't help her much , it was basically a ring of health for her.
it just doesnt. compare spectres dagger to pas dagger or pls spear
Spectre main weakness is sustain, both from hp and mana regen.
spectres main weakness is her being the least self-sufficient carry in the game in the patch where being self-sufficieng is as important as ever
im not saying that bf spectre is bad as opposed to radiance spectre(which is also bad). im saying that if u picked spectre this patch u already choked ur team by the pick alone enough to go for either of those items
the item seems pretty good if you can make it <15min
but rather than saving a demon edge for 2200 gold,why won't you just make a yasha before rads? makes you farm faster too
as for regen issue,isn't urn+stick+salve is enough already? it's not like this hero needs a void stone or smth,vanilla ror is good already
I stopped going radiance for the past few games, it feels so boring to save up for that sacred relic and be active at the 25 minute mark with the item, I now go for Aquila into PT, into hood/urn/vanguard according to the game, then rush diffusal and manta. I think this build is more satisfying than going radi anyway. About battlefury, always wondered how it will be, but for some reason I always hesitate as well xD
now we just need that sea spectre guy who managed to reach 4000 mmr from 4.8 after spamming her (including the badman patch)
the point of playing spectre in <5k is entirely different than Badman's spectre, your teamfight will most often not make way for you to get your kill and sometimes your teammates will essentially be giving a big fuck you to you by getting their own urn. Without Radiance, you can forget getting the kill and providing passive support, but a bf+bm with full dispersion might get the offhand idiot PA who'll want to jump you; depends if you're the tank or you're the lurker
now we just need that sea spectre guy who managed to reach 4000 mmr from 4.8 after spamming her (including the badman patch)
how do u remember these shits
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I have been thinking BF spectre for a long time ago, but many people just said it was shit and bla bla bla
When one pro players make that shit(RTZ), everyone started tryed it and say oh it was actually good, even though there's some people that still think that BF is a bad item on her.
I have played many spectre game and when i try BF , i even think it was good/superior than radience but i always feel many people just report me and trash talked at me like dude you imitating rtz etc etc(still remember people laugh at deso+vlad pa calling it stupid and said bf was x10 better and now you see what happens to PA builds)
i will try to think the difference of BF and Radience :
1. The cost : radience was expensive, over 5150 gold while battefury was 4100 gold. The most thing that hurt about radience is that you need to save 3800 gold+ 1350 gold, while Battle Fury have much more cheaper+useful componets like perseverence , queeling blade and you just need to save 2200 gold for demon edge. Basically what i say is, to make radience , you need to buy another item first , like urn or vanguard, magic stick, phase/pt to sustain yourself. While battlefury was more forgiving and easily rushed, you just get that boots, magic stick and perseverence+quell blade, save 2200 gold, viola BF.
2. Farming rate : BF was more good than radience in farming, with radience you can't farm ancient faster, or clear wave faster than BF. Some people said Spectre have bad attack speed and attack animation that make them can't utilized BF well, but i feel it was still faster than radience and do note that BF was cheaper to builds.
3. Team fighting : radience seems a great item for team fight, it melts support and enemy carry with 17% blind bonus for your team, it also destroy any blink dagger user. BF in other way only offer to maybe clearing creep wave in team fight so you can use your desolate, BF also helps you destroy enemy illusions/summon easily. In my opinion, radience burn damage easily countered by pipe, glimmer, and bkb. Of course that will happens at late game, and i feel Radience potential at late game was'nt so great, if people make it as farming tool, then bf also a good choice on it.
4. Why not both like RTZ did ? BF and radience ? quite a bad idea i think, if the enemy let you farm radience when you have bf, you already win the game if your team don't throw.
i still have only one game as BF spectre, i will try how much good it is, even i quite afraid getting report and low prio by people that disliking this builds.
My last game was quite good on BF spectre, even though my friends keep mocking me playing trolling build and thinking i am throwing the game and drunk.