Lanaya would win all the way from laning stage to lategame, there's no way sf could dammage lanaya in the laning stage if the player share equal skill
And in late game sf still rely on his nuke beside his physical dammage, while ta purely deal physical dammage
sf can do fine against ta in lane, later ta should be pretty good against sf
Ta can completely nullify triple raze soooooooand that sf youre talking about has autism
u pretty much have to pull creeps to ur tower and get ur first cs there
when ure lvl 3 just nonstop rightclick ta, remove her refraction and raze her
Pardon me, but i don't see any TA losing to an SF 1v1 given that players are of equal skill. On top of refraction, TA can just buy raindrops if she is going to go aggressive. SF will melt to psiblades all throughout the laning phase. If TA gets haste, that is a dead SF. When TA gets lvl 6, that is a dead SF (unless he TPs). If TA gets DD, that is a dead SF. SF should basically never get a rune. TA can stack ancients and farm them, while SF will have to settle for jungle camps which give less XP and Gold. So....TA.
Not true at lvl 5 he throws 2 razes and wave is dead and TA can't go on him cause there's creeps
Yeah that was my understanding too, however W33, Sumail and RTZ all pick SF into TA alot, during FPL and on stream.
They seem to offer significantly more kill potential due to the lvl 2 powerspike (lvl 1 raze does 510 damage) and have an easier time dealing with roamers with SF now instead of TA.
Doesn't SF just stand on Ta's hill lvl 2 and if TA doesn't have refraction she just gets razed?
Also the lvl 6 powerspike on TA shouldn't threaten SF because SF usually nukes twice and leaves, or is farming jungle. once SF hits 7 you can either expect 3 heros mid or SF will be killing all your lanes with his (1140 Damage) AOE nuke
I feel like on radiant SF is alot stronger because SF just double razes the lane and farms the med camp, stacks the hard camp and goes back to lane to nuke the next wave, where as on Dire he doesn't have that luxuary.
Ta on Dire can do a similar rotation and stack the ancient camp however you're not getting the same 'early' farm instead you're banking on 'later' farm. which you can't farm as quickly anymore.
TA being able to utalise the Triangle alot better during the midgame next too bot shrine could also pay a factor towards the midgame of TA.
But With the talents, BoTs, Dagger and Euls on SF you're extremely fast, permanently 516 movement speed. Without some good catch it's close to impossible to get caught and killed as SF. So I'm running around the map, double-raze wave to push waves and find pick-offs with the Dagger-Euls-Ult combo. It kills every opponent if you don't mess up the timing.
Also lategame of SF (magic build)
With lvl 25's cooldown reduction and octarine core you have a 45s cd on ult, 4.5s cd on each raze and a 20s cd on Boots of Travels. This makes SF an enormous split-pushing hero. You TP to a lane, raze 2 waves, raze 2 camps, potentially kill an opponent who shows up to defend or to push back the wave, then you TP to another lane, repeat. This enables you to play a very fast game with a lot of big-distance rotations which is a playstyle I personally like a lot.
The more the skill, the more matchup sf win.
Sf can lose the lane, but none of them can win it.
Early enough, both of them will just rape the creep wave and farm a neutral camp while waiting for the next wave
Sf is so much stronger late game, cause he doesn't rely on snowballing to be relevant (unless you play magic)
The more the skill, the more matchup sf win.Sf can lose the lane, but none of them can win it.
Early enough, both of them will just rape the creep wave and farm a neutral camp while waiting for the next waveSf is so much stronger late game, cause he doesn't rely on snowballing to be relevant (unless you play magic)
u dont even play the heroes almost everything u said is wrong
On equal skill, SF breaking even is already considered bad. No way can you justify TA losing lane.
*edit, Tested SF veno ward 2 hit by rosh, it still does so you can farm souls lvl 1 on sf with a veno on your team. Just FYI.
I find it harder to lane against SF early on as TA nowadays. The thing in the past was to abuse SF for his first 2 levels and typically my TA would be 1 level ahead by the time he hits 3. However it is abit different now as SF will trade hits with me to burn my refraction charges (refraction at 1&2 is mediocre) and should he hit 2 razes after he would have basically won the lane. Its much easier to screw up as TA early on due to less charges and inferior range.
However I don't see how a level 7 TA would lose to SF in a strict 1v1 matchup. Given the time to abuse refraction cooldown should nullify almost all damage sources from razes if TA manages to avoid tanking the creep waves.
But that said, I agree SF to be more superior in this meta, as SF is more versatile in his build along with his superior magic damage compared to the rigid style of TA. I would choose SF over TA in most games.
Sf is imo a superior hero in an inferior matchup
Any support rotation is far more impactful than the individual heroes against each other
TA is second strongest against SF, SF is weakest vs TA statistically speaking across all brackets.
The two excel at entirely other things. But a strict 1vs1 fight TA shouldn't lose, maybe unless it's a total noob TA vs a godlike pro SF. If they are not leagues apart in skill TA is totally free, and after lvl 6-7 (TA should be at least one level ahead SF by that point) she can just kill SF at any time.
In low mmr TA stomps SF. In higher lvl SF should win. However, nowadays mid is never 1v1, so the question is kinda irrevelant.
@ywn-エメ
You are sooo wrong.
sf has no way to unallow ta to farm, and ta has no way to unallow sf to farm, unless sf screwed up at some point.
Sf loose hard some matchup when he is bad (specially bad at positioning / creep blocking -though this one is often done by support nowadays- / early last hit / creep aggro), but will win almost every matchup when that is corrected and raze are used correctly. (if as a sf you cann't win viper, then you are not good at laning sf -pur 1v1-).
Lategame, sf has better talent, stat, and he doesn't need a blink, so he's better aswell there.
Nothing more annoying then a random 0 fucking clue and shity statement, especially by som1 who is supposed to be good.
i think its very hard for sf to do anything against ta all game long. refraction counters everything he wants to do and he is a turret type hero. not sure if ulti counts as one damage instance or multiple if you hit all of them, but that could be a gamechanger if you get euls against ta. besides that, you cant really do much to ta.
^requiem is multiple damage instances
Still, TA will die to euls sf once, then build a BKB or just make sure she has refraction on at all times when it's possible for him to initiate on her, so she can blink away from this, sb sf leaves a much smaller window for TA to react.
BTW my favorite heroes in DOTA are Kaldr and Ethreain.
The more the skill, the more matchup sf win.
? TA has advantage on equal skill
Sf can lose the lane, but none of them can win it.
whats this even supposed to mean
Early enough, both of them will just rape the creep wave and farm a neutral camp while waiting for the next wave
u can only do this on radiant and its better to stay in lane and deny creeps as sf before TA gets lvl 6
Sf is so much stronger late game, cause he doesn't rely on snowballing to be relevant (unless you play magic)
TA doesnt rely on snowballing, she also farms faster than sf. (also why would magic build require snowballing you can farm pretty much the same speed as with physical)
theres a reason people always pick TA vs sf clock cause shes like the only hero that has enough damage and doesnt get bullied by razes
I feel like TA needs more skill than sf. Can fuck up more easily with a bad move. And usually dependent on having a good game early, despite her having good farm. I have seen so many games where ta is not dominating so just farms (really well) but still loses. Because if not Super ahead the hero doesn't work as intended (burst people) and u have to change the way u play a lot.
But then again sf is equally shit so 50-50 then.
^and both ur supports die to triple raze
It's not always that simple
Ta is far more difficult than sf, deceptively so.
If the ta player is good they shud beat sf but she isn't easy to execute.
People talking about whatever: OP asked on 1v1 which should win.
Instead of game analyzing, if it is strictly 1v1 then TA.
how can u lose a lane and the other person not win it xd
if u have 2 people commited to suiciding into u and feeding 5 kills in 3 minutes but ure forced back to fountain on multiple occasions and/or ur supports hug the lane so ure lv3 6 minutes in id say neither team won the lane
Supports cant tank triple raze while ganking unless they either dont use smoke or have intense brain damage
The way u gank an sf is by wrapping around so he can't triple raze both of u
Either stick to him so he can't land far raze or stay away so he can't land close raze
Carry raindrops
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Unless SF boosts souls with a kill or cogs, ( veno ward 2 hit rosh trick). It used to be a Heavily TA sided matchup.
In previous patches i have always 'Counter picked' Sf with TA, although this patch i have seen the inverse happening quite frequently and SF seems to come up on top from the lane,
because of SF's insane early game potential his midgame never reaches lategame because he snowballs so hard the game is won by then.
I would still prefer to play the TA side of the match up though because during the lane you can deny creeps and still get last hits which is essentially 'doubling your attack speed' for certain instances and we all know how important denys are this patch. Midgame because the meta revolves around ancients which even with the 10% ancients nerf in 7.07d, Ancients are still so valuable that every team needs a hero that can clear ancient stacks and the added benifit of Roshan control seems to fit my understanding of the metagame right now.
so who do you think assuming equal skill levels should win the LANE, MIDGAME and offers more during the LATEGAME?