no shakers not broken the way io or bat are fundamentally, hes just a teamfight hero lol
It's the hero concept that makes those heroes broken at a high level. What one hero offer no matter how u tweak the spells. Like a single target disable through bkb that can pull someone out of position. There's no way to make Bat totally shit except by reworking his ult in some way so he can't do that lul
Or by removing vacuum and ion shell which just perpetually enables darkseer to have his annoying way to farm in early game
Essentially, certain heroes are very unique and others aren't. No other hero does what clockwork, enigma, dark seer, batrider, shaker, etc. do.
Then there are other heroes that aren't super unique. Lion and Rhasta are pretty much the same thing, although one might be better or worse due to the current meta. Stuff like SF, Gyro, Drow, Dusa, Sniper, Viper, etc. They are all fairly similar and none of them stand out above and beyond the others, their strength/weakness is coming from the meta. Drow's uniqueness probably stands out the most but that's due to the "drow strat".
No matter how bad one of those "very unique" heroes may be in the meta, they still have their time and place in a draft. Whereas if SF is really bad in the meta, there isn't really going to be a situation where it's like, "We REALLLY need SF!" since you can pick from a large group of heroes that are quite similar to SF.
Before I look on to the timeless heroes themselves, I'll try to consider certain criteria. The so called "timeless" heroes are to be considered "timeless" with one simple rule of thumb: the extreme utility of their skills. A skill that offers immense utility in scenarios needed that is unparalleled by any other heroes. Also, the hero must have an innate mobility/escape skill to give emphasis on its utility. Also, notice that each hero mentioned are not cores, as their utility is best reserved for positions 3,4 and 5. Which brings us to the next thing to consider, which is the difficulty of the hero skill whereas, the hero is outrageously effective at the right hands, or the hero's potential utility is untapped on a beginner's keyboard and mouse.
Concerning the heroes, Batrider has a certain degree consistency in early game, mid and late game. He can almost win any 1v1 lane situations due to his skills, which involves a pseudo-mobility spell(firefly) which is also a semi-effective spell to quickly farm mobility items(Blink Dagger, Force Staff, etc.) Given that he obtains even just his Blink Dagger, his utility is fulfilled, even in mid or late games, because there is no better spell immunity-piercing spell that can destroy enemy lineups other than Flaming Lasso. Valve knows the heroes' capability, so nerfhammer is unleashed upon Bat many, many times. (check patch since 6.82[?])
Next is Dark Seer, which has certain striking similarities to batrider. An immense win-probability in offlane, a very utility-based mobility skill capable of wonders, and an ultimate that is very powerful no matter the stage of the game. He also has a position-breaking spell, capable of synergizing with many other AoE spells. With so many nerfs upon this hero, there is a running joke inside the early Dota 2 community that "It isn't a patch if it isn't a Dark Seer nerf."
So far, position 3 heroes are discussed(which can also play as pos 4 or 5, but we'll consider the pro meta) but we'll now talk about Earth Spirit. Long Range, Disable, Slow, Mobility, Silence, DPS, Position Breaking. Some heroes can only offer 3 or 4, very few can offer 5 or 6, but Earth Spirit has all 7 qualities. Jerax knows this, Valve knows this, and the rest is history.
And last is IO, which is the black sheep of all timeless heroes. Not only is this the only pos 5 hero, but this is the most unloved hero of Valve. Very limited disable, lackluster in stats, and basically a position 5 hero nonexistent without its babysitting core. (this was the case before 7.07,but now he's a little bit yay than nay.) But no other healing hero can bolster their damage reduction, increase atk speed, and have an immense surge of healing other than Io's skill build. And well, Relocate is simply termed as "two-man global gank" skill.
This is my idea on why they are timeless.
And oh, don't mind my post, just an Archon guy saying some shit.
EDIT: I also need to cite the heroes tidehunter, enigma, clockwerk and earthshaker. Their utility is also immense, but what they lack is the immunity to counters. Tidehunter? Enigma? Pick rubick. Clockwerk? Pick Force Staff? Earthshaker? Avoid illusion heroes. If you try to counter tidehunter, enigma, clockwerk and earthshaker, you have a higher chance of winning.
But on the likes of dark seer, bat, earth spirit and io, you don't feel the need to counterpick, because the counterpick is most likely to be reserved on other heroes, because there are no game-changing counterpicks that could disrupt their utility. If one does so, they just mitigate the damage, not win the game.
Am
Even gaben nerf it to the ground, many kids will still first pick it and feeding it later
Faceless Void, because chrono is timeless. Get it? :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
ur retarded if you think people spam pick am in every meta
The list for me is something like bat, io, darkseer, earth spirit.
I think the difference between strong by design, and timeless, is that even strong by design heroes can get their ass nerfed and fall down, similar to beastmaster, wyvern, willow, maybe even doom, and how their highly unique abilities can get changed and nerfed to the point where they are not worth it. Timeless is the next level, they just never became unviable.
venge is kinda of an alltimer, I remember him being picked even in dota 1 times
add maybe bristle and rubick, even tho rubick is not that old as a hero, but he was present from the beginning in dota 2 because of obvious reasons
also rubick is really fun to play
Would have to agree on rubick I guess. As long as there are good spells there are good spells to steal
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I saw a vid on YouTube and it was interesting. Basically, the heroes that no matter what Icefrog throws at the meta. These guys will always be the staples of professional and high level Dota. The likes of Batrider, Wisp, Earth Spirit, and Dark Seer. They may not always be top pub picks but they are strong by design.
Ideas on this topic? I personally think Earthshaker deserves to be on the list. Yeah his time as a meta core may have been short, and changes from time to time and now hes back to roaming mostly but I think his identity is solid. And he can be absolutely game chanding in the right hands