1st game were you support? as SF & Sven seem to be the carries in that game... and notice your last hits? Sven is double yours... if you want to be a support Juggernaut then your build is fine. I'm sure doing 26k damage feels good when your 13k net vengeful did 23k damage and your PA double that 47k in a 45min game, PA wasn't even farming that game.
Actually, no, it's a decent increase in damage for both juggernaut and spectre, not to mention the actual catch up, or disengage ability of its passive.
In a team fight Juggernaut does damage with bladefury and ulti, he has no room for right clicks cuz he dies too fast, unless it's late game and he's fat at that point you want Boots of travel and that 24 + damage holds no relevance. Spec does damage with radi (ideally), he isn't desperate for that +24 damage from phase either.
lmao op, everyone trying to help you playing better as carries by not buying mana boots everygame and you trashed it with trash argument.
you're not playing alone in dota yknow, mana boots is better on supports because it can heal 1 team, and not just 1 hero. u should buy phase or threads on carries for faster farm(gpm) and higher dps. if you're afraid of mana getting run out in fights, stick with your mana boots support and ask him to gank with you.
once again, this is not a single player game, this is a team game.
lmao op, everyone trying to help you playing better as carries by not buying mana boots everygame and you trashed it with trash argument.
you're not playing alone in dota yknow, mana boots is better on supports because it can heal 1 team, and not just 1 hero. u should buy phase or threads on carries for faster farm(gpm) and higher dps. if you're afraid of mana getting run out in fights, stick with your mana boots support and ask him to gank with you.
once again, this is not a single player game, this is a team game.
The support isn't following you around the map to give you mana (ideally they do but it didn't work like that in my games).
see he's right. just be self - sufficient. totally cant arge with that. how can u depend on your supports.
which is why i go phase (because u need it) and mana regen item (perseverance). mana boots doesnt work well on a carry
Did you know that jugger lands a few "right click" attacks during his ulti? So the +24 damage is still relevant for that. Or to actually get close to heroes during your Bladefury, because you can activate it during that, too.
There are many upsides to having that item, whereas all of Arcane's merits won't help you in most case.
Dear Mr debtcollector$$$$, to answer your question why you shouldn't pick carry...
Majority of the pubs are core players. Those playing supports are usually core players forced to pick support for the team. If you pick core, it means someone else in the team has to play the support. Logically it follows that the better core player in the team should be picking the core role, while the not-so-good ones should be the one forced to change role.
In the absence of all other information in a usual pub game (e.g. you won't know the background of your teammates), statistics like MMR, GPM, versatility etc would be the next best indicator of who should take the core role.
TLDR: You shouldn't play carry because other people in your team are better than you at carrying.
Did you know that jugger lands a few "right click" attacks during his ulti?
Only if he's attack time is below 0.4 for which you need well over 20k networth of items, at that point(late game) you will most likely have Boots of trael anyway
I admit overly fetishize arcane boots, maybe i will try different builds too on spec and jugger.
Arcane's merits won't help you in most case.
they do, you need mana for your abilities. I remember playing spec and jugger with phase/treads and i was oom all the time. The more you can use your spells,the better. These two heroes severely lack mana
Simple don't use spells to farm. I agree this feels like a troll. I'm actually laughing at it as my friends who were 600mmr, (before the change) knew how to play better. Honestly if you want to get better play support. Most people undervalue the experience you gain from playing support. It translates in your carry games.
wah, it's been a while since I see player with improper build.
It's fine OP, you should stick to your idea at first, because only you yourself know the reason why you build like that.
Seriously, many people build items according to guide, not knowing why would the guide works... for example, Jugv buying only battle fury + phase boot on a game full of war, no space for farming, skipping magic wand and aquila, just because it's on the guide. Those jugg will soon find out that their mana wont allow them to cast TP/ healing ward after using omni + spin, u build arcane boot, because you know you will need it. I used to think like you, but instead using soulring and phase boot, phase boot make easier last hit and bladefury, and soul ring provides just enough mana to cast healing ward or omni, but then I realized that I dont need soulring at mid/late game, my mana is always sufficient, at first I dont understand why I always have enough mana, but then I realize that the mana comes from allied hero arcane boot. From which then, my jugg uses aquila and magic wand, hoping my support will buy arcane boot.
Your build is fine, but also don't be a stubborn, what is fine to you, doesn't mean also fine to your teammate. A carry is the backbone of a team, improper build would let a decrease morale on your team, not everyone understand your build. While it is fine for you to have your own build, you should also need to adapt. The medal archon 5 is a proof that you play well, but not good enough since your build is convenient for you, but bad for a carry, since a carry need dmg to fast push and need to fast farm to get items. You may want to consider Pangolier offlane since arcane + vanguard is a good items for semi carry like him, and the dmg will come from ja velin and diffu
^ One of the best serious comments regarding the topic. That's pretty much what I meant by "stick to your style if it fits you the most", while also giving you criticism to answer your question.
I like it when people play their own style compared to following guides, but gotta say that the current meta hardly allows a slow tempo anymore, when a hard carry on opposing team can come out 4-5 slotted at 20th minute.
you gotta consider one thing, your builds and playstyle are the reason you have such low gpm
arcanes on jugg isn't bad in THEORY, but in a realistic case scenario you benefit way more from phase/treads because you simply farm faster, meaning you get more items sooner than the opponent, meaning you get to use those items on your opponent before he can do anything to you, meaning you get even more gold because you kill your opponents, meaning that transitios into free towers aka more gold, meaning you snowball and win the game.
Stop telling him to stick with his build, he's been doing it for 4 years and his winrate is still plummeting. He doesn't even understand the concept of what a carry is, he needs to forget everything he thinks he knows and start learning the game from scratch.
I'm telling him to stick to his style, but there's no denying he needs to adapt to the current meta, because that won't be enough for a carry player now, and yes, at this point following a guide would definitely and directly improve his performance. He has to find out what alterations he could make, or how to utilize them, but Arcane+Vangu is just too extremely slow no matter what his plans are.
And yes, an offlaner core would probably suit him more.
Okay... OP do you watch Pro games, why don't they build Arance Boots? there is a reason for that if you still disagree then you are just choosing to ignore advice and it's your choice, get a pro coach maybe because it seems like no matter how many people are telling you the itemization you are using is not "efficient" you have a counter argument it just seems like you are trolling.
I'm telling him to stick to his style, but there's no denying he needs to adapt to the current meta
Sticking to playstyle and building decent items are 2 different things. He builds arcanes, for god sake. That's not playstyle, that's direct report and low priority. If he is not in low priority, he should have been. He is probably even using it for farming neutrals so when he is ganged, he got killed.
Why is everyone so hating on op? He may Itemize unconventionally and have below avarage stats for his bracket. But why does that offend you? You can give him tips how to play better, but he didn't say anything that I can see you getting offended from.
Here's what I have to say:
I have even less games from you and as bad of stats. And In general I am also getting comments about my weird itemization ls
Well, the fact that you aren't good on something doesn't mean you should not play it no matter what. Do what you like. If you aren't training on something how can get better?
I suck at supporting, I constantly feed, I can lose my thoughts on the laning phase and I miss alot of key movements with my wards not being placed optimally, also I love to build not so conventionally (see my last cm game)
But I do want to comment about hiwnstatic is your build, sure be unconventional, learn what goes with your play and how to adapt the game. But don't buy the exact same build over and over, try to learn what's good
And if you do that, at least go with the cookie cutter build. They exist because they are general good most-of-the-times items that in general you can build every game with decent impact
Did you even read the thread howtonoob6?
Most of the comments are flame/hate-free, constructive advices, actually I haven't seen so many helpful comments instead of "lul git gud" type comments in one thread.
He has a 39% winrate in the past 3 months, 36% in the past month, and 26% in the past week. He somehow way overcalibrated and is now plummeting down to where he belongs. He consistently does worst than his teammates and opponents even disregarding his item choices. I would bet every archon player here is better than him.
just buy a pt,pt swap to int when you want to cast a spell
and buy clarities + magic wand,your mana issues'll get covered
get a mango if it's still not enough
1st game were you support? as SF & Sven seem to be the carries in that game... and notice your last hits? Sven is double yours... if you want to be a support Juggernaut then your build is fine. I'm sure doing 26k damage feels good when your 13k net vengeful did 23k damage and your PA double that 47k in a 45min game, PA wasn't even farming that game.
Actually, no, it's a decent increase in damage for both juggernaut and spectre, not to mention the actual catch up, or disengage ability of its passive.
feels bad i'm lower mmr than a guy who itemizes like a herald ;__;
actually why do u hate phase boots though
In a team fight Juggernaut does damage with bladefury and ulti, he has no room for right clicks cuz he dies too fast, unless it's late game and he's fat at that point you want Boots of travel and that 24 + damage holds no relevance. Spec does damage with radi (ideally), he isn't desperate for that +24 damage from phase either.
lmao op, everyone trying to help you playing better as carries by not buying mana boots everygame and you trashed it with trash argument.
you're not playing alone in dota yknow, mana boots is better on supports because it can heal 1 team, and not just 1 hero. u should buy phase or threads on carries for faster farm(gpm) and higher dps. if you're afraid of mana getting run out in fights, stick with your mana boots support and ask him to gank with you.
once again, this is not a single player game, this is a team game.
see he's right. just be self - sufficient. totally cant arge with that. how can u depend on your supports.
which is why i go phase (because u need it) and mana regen item (perseverance). mana boots doesnt work well on a carry
Did you know that jugger lands a few "right click" attacks during his ulti? So the +24 damage is still relevant for that. Or to actually get close to heroes during your Bladefury, because you can activate it during that, too.
There are many upsides to having that item, whereas all of Arcane's merits won't help you in most case.
Dear Mr debtcollector$$$$, to answer your question why you shouldn't pick carry...
Majority of the pubs are core players. Those playing supports are usually core players forced to pick support for the team. If you pick core, it means someone else in the team has to play the support. Logically it follows that the better core player in the team should be picking the core role, while the not-so-good ones should be the one forced to change role.
In the absence of all other information in a usual pub game (e.g. you won't know the background of your teammates), statistics like MMR, GPM, versatility etc would be the next best indicator of who should take the core role.
TLDR: You shouldn't play carry because other people in your team are better than you at carrying.
Only if he's attack time is below 0.4 for which you need well over 20k networth of items, at that point(late game) you will most likely have Boots of trael anyway
I admit overly fetishize arcane boots, maybe i will try different builds too on spec and jugger.
they do, you need mana for your abilities. I remember playing spec and jugger with phase/treads and i was oom all the time. The more you can use your spells,the better. These two heroes severely lack manahansolo
Stop theorycrafting and just follow guides till you're not terrible.
Why would you need to spam your skills? Neither is really efficient for farming.
Also, about that 0.4 attack time is not true, you might not hit a lot with low IAS and early level of Omnislash, but you will still land a few even early on.
http://2p.com/7366853_1/Optimizing-Omnislash-Juggernaut-in-681b-by-thunderfunking.htm
finally, try it a few games and see the difference
hansolo's older brother
Simple don't use spells to farm. I agree this feels like a troll. I'm actually laughing at it as my friends who were 600mmr, (before the change) knew how to play better. Honestly if you want to get better play support. Most people undervalue the experience you gain from playing support. It translates in your carry games.
This is the opposite HanSolo. Mana boots on jugg, jesus christ go learn a different game.
wah, it's been a while since I see player with improper build.
It's fine OP, you should stick to your idea at first, because only you yourself know the reason why you build like that.
Seriously, many people build items according to guide, not knowing why would the guide works... for example, Jugv buying only battle fury + phase boot on a game full of war, no space for farming, skipping magic wand and aquila, just because it's on the guide. Those jugg will soon find out that their mana wont allow them to cast TP/ healing ward after using omni + spin, u build arcane boot, because you know you will need it. I used to think like you, but instead using soulring and phase boot, phase boot make easier last hit and bladefury, and soul ring provides just enough mana to cast healing ward or omni, but then I realized that I dont need soulring at mid/late game, my mana is always sufficient, at first I dont understand why I always have enough mana, but then I realize that the mana comes from allied hero arcane boot. From which then, my jugg uses aquila and magic wand, hoping my support will buy arcane boot.
Your build is fine, but also don't be a stubborn, what is fine to you, doesn't mean also fine to your teammate. A carry is the backbone of a team, improper build would let a decrease morale on your team, not everyone understand your build. While it is fine for you to have your own build, you should also need to adapt. The medal archon 5 is a proof that you play well, but not good enough since your build is convenient for you, but bad for a carry, since a carry need dmg to fast push and need to fast farm to get items. You may want to consider Pangolier offlane since arcane + vanguard is a good items for semi carry like him, and the dmg will come from ja velin and diffu
^ One of the best serious comments regarding the topic. That's pretty much what I meant by "stick to your style if it fits you the most", while also giving you criticism to answer your question.
I like it when people play their own style compared to following guides, but gotta say that the current meta hardly allows a slow tempo anymore, when a hard carry on opposing team can come out 4-5 slotted at 20th minute.
you gotta consider one thing, your builds and playstyle are the reason you have such low gpm
arcanes on jugg isn't bad in THEORY, but in a realistic case scenario you benefit way more from phase/treads because you simply farm faster, meaning you get more items sooner than the opponent, meaning you get to use those items on your opponent before he can do anything to you, meaning you get even more gold because you kill your opponents, meaning that transitios into free towers aka more gold, meaning you snowball and win the game.
Stop telling him to stick with his build, he's been doing it for 4 years and his winrate is still plummeting. He doesn't even understand the concept of what a carry is, he needs to forget everything he thinks he knows and start learning the game from scratch.
I'm telling him to stick to his style, but there's no denying he needs to adapt to the current meta, because that won't be enough for a carry player now, and yes, at this point following a guide would definitely and directly improve his performance. He has to find out what alterations he could make, or how to utilize them, but Arcane+Vangu is just too extremely slow no matter what his plans are.
And yes, an offlaner core would probably suit him more.
or you can get aquila or some shit like BF and having damage and mana instead of only having mana
I can't seem to argue with anyone lately. Fantastic points made
Okay... OP do you watch Pro games, why don't they build Arance Boots? there is a reason for that if you still disagree then you are just choosing to ignore advice and it's your choice, get a pro coach maybe because it seems like no matter how many people are telling you the itemization you are using is not "efficient" you have a counter argument it just seems like you are trolling.
Sticking to playstyle and building decent items are 2 different things. He builds arcanes, for god sake. That's not playstyle, that's direct report and low priority. If he is not in low priority, he should have been. He is probably even using it for farming neutrals so when he is ganged, he got killed.
rofl
LOL funniest thread ive seen in awhile. Thanks OP
My God......how often do you get reported?
If i see my jugg or spec buy arcane ill uninstall dota in my mind.
Personally if I wanted mana for a carry I’d go Echo Sabre.
Why is everyone so hating on op? He may Itemize unconventionally and have below avarage stats for his bracket. But why does that offend you? You can give him tips how to play better, but he didn't say anything that I can see you getting offended from.
Here's what I have to say:
I have even less games from you and as bad of stats. And In general I am also getting comments about my weird itemization ls
Well, the fact that you aren't good on something doesn't mean you should not play it no matter what. Do what you like. If you aren't training on something how can get better?
I suck at supporting, I constantly feed, I can lose my thoughts on the laning phase and I miss alot of key movements with my wards not being placed optimally, also I love to build not so conventionally (see my last cm game)
But I do want to comment about hiwnstatic is your build, sure be unconventional, learn what goes with your play and how to adapt the game. But don't buy the exact same build over and over, try to learn what's good
And if you do that, at least go with the cookie cutter build. They exist because they are general good most-of-the-times items that in general you can build every game with decent impact
Good luck
Did you even read the thread howtonoob6?
Most of the comments are flame/hate-free, constructive advices, actually I haven't seen so many helpful comments instead of "lul git gud" type comments in one thread.
But it seems like most of the people are taking his play on a personal level
He is not even bad, he's archon 5, that's like better than 75% of the forum
he has 47% overall winrate though which speaks for itself i think,besides him rejecting pretty much all things people said here
Maybe he has a selfish personality, yet he is objectively better than the most of the forum
This op really getting on my nerves
He has a 39% winrate in the past 3 months, 36% in the past month, and 26% in the past week. He somehow way overcalibrated and is now plummeting down to where he belongs. He consistently does worst than his teammates and opponents even disregarding his item choices. I would bet every archon player here is better than him.
ty for the advice i will now buy arcane boots on sven
luna is another carry that needs to spam beam. guess arcanes is the choice here
just buy a pt,pt swap to int when you want to cast a spell
and buy clarities + magic wand,your mana issues'll get covered
get a mango if it's still not enough
i seriously feel sorry for whoever the fuck teams up with OP in their ranked matches
OP caught a lot of fish
I went on and tried OP's manaboot/vanguard on jugg on an alt, proven works well
approved by me
Match ID: 3626380760
On 1k smurf, you would probably win even with mana boots and 5x hurricane pike on jugg. Or with 6x PT... :)
Lmao, I got 300 gpm but I can carry way better than what 3ks can do ;).
@OP dont give up in life.
GPM IS JUST A NUMBER
Just spam clarities. It's what literally every cometant carry does and it works wonders.