enemy team is no threat to dk and bristle early on
just look what luna and am are doing and support the one who seems to be the better player.
try to stack alot, your team is greedy af
i'd pick omni or wyvern
Like 80%of my games look like this if im pos 5. Its either a jungler or a dual core offlane. I dont even need the 4 to ward, I know how to get resources in this bracket, but Id be pickinhg:
Shaman, Lion, Wyvern,Maiden
@Melt I supported Luna initially and zoned out the LC but enemy switched their trilane from top to bottom. I couldnt do anything there to help her so I left her and started my rotations at mid and top while stacking ancients and neutrals.
My Luna started crying "wtf venge help me here". I told her repeatedly to play very defensive and just try to make the most out of it since I offer nothing there and that she could recover farm later the ancient stacks. She insisted and kept crying and I told her enemy would get double kill if I tp or help her. They then dove tower and tried killing her. Inspite of what I said, I tp'd but just resulted to them getting double kill.
I kept my rotations around DK and tried to ward protect my entire team including sentries because enemy Troll had Shadow Blade. We got some kills caused by their extreme aggression and it would have been a fine mid game since AM was able to transition to Jungle. But the next level problem was that BB was in on no form to fight - why? cause the freaking pig was saving up for radiance.
So around minute 20:
- 5 enemy heroes were pushing mid
- Luna crying badly and was getting picked off by LC
- AM rotated in jungle also being picked off by LC
- while BB also jungled and took some stacks i prepared for Luna
I got like 4 babies im trying to take care in the entire map!!! Trying to keep them from harm of 5 agressive heroessss
i just checked the game stats.
luna actually had decsent farm. what i do in 4core lineups is, i choose ONE core and stick with him no matter what happens. trilane vs your duo - ask your mid and offlaner to get ready to tp in when they dive. dont advice them tho, be polite or like "free kills in the bottom lane, wanna tp in to take claim them?"
pull easy camp every minute, ward around your pull camp to either get luna farm under tower or provoke that dive. you will have a level advantage pretty soon and luna can recover with just levels.
in case of nobody earning those free kills and enemy keps diving - let them take the tower. what do you do after you took a tier 1 early? you leave the lane and do sth else. space for luna. put every single ward in the jungle to make sure she doesnt die unless its a smokegank. maybe go push tier1s with dk ult, but always save your tp to help luna when needed. mute the antimage, let him do his own thing. if he splitpushes agressively and getspicked by shadowblade lc hes not worth getting supported.
in case if bristle and dk asking you to help them be like "be close to luna, then i will be in range to help you probably". dont go where they are
Interesting.
So there could have been 2 ways to progress after enemy switched their Pudge, Ogre and Troll trilane to bottom.
Option 1: I left Luna solo bottom to gank rotate Mid and Top and to stack ancients and Neuts.
Option 2: Stay with the Dual vs Tri lane.
Not really sure which one could have been better. But my decision to go option 1 was based on feels in that their trilane can easily kill me (Ignite + hook + troll slow/right click). So instead of Luna and me staying at tower like sitting ducks for them to target. I felt that Luna could get more out of the lane by solo-ing all exp from creeps. But of course at the same time running the risk of her repeatedly dying. But that if she played safely and defensively enough + my mid and offlane rotations + stacking would achieve a better overall value than us trying to manage our bottom lane.
Thoughts anyone?
you had 2 tanky midgame dominators who won their lanes. they should be interested in killing the enemy.
at some point its just about tricking their minds to make them group up and push whenever both dk and luna have their ults online
btw how did you win?
luna had a dieback at 35, leading into killing the enemy team twice in just 2 minutes, lc and troll probably wasting their buybacks here. looks like bristle and dk carried the game tbh, but compare lunas dmg to am^^ she did a really good job regarding she has a 1v3 lane man
i'd rather have the one good carry player in my team farming up than him and the 3 trash carry players sharing the same networth
^ nice points. Not sure if I'm just tainted but I have to watch the replay again to have more objective comments.
But based on what I felt and remember last night, the moment I saw BB saving up for Relic - and the way he was ignoring us by just rotating between offlane and jungle while me and DK were trying hard to defend mid T1. It was not that type of game where my teammates would want to group up and push. Since with BB's itemization - he was in no form to fight - which I totally understood but that I also didn't want to lose our Mid T1 coz all 4 farming cores will get sucked up to the already little farming space we have which would then make them more susceptible to ganks - which evetually happened
@Jacked i guess it depends on what kind of position 5 hero you have.
If I was a Wyvern, I would have stayed w/ Luna coz I know I can sustain her against tri lane.
But as a Venge, I had to make something happen through ganks. Hence I rotated to mid and top while stacking neuts/ancients accordingly.
EDIT: What up with Kunkka?
Isn't the point of having multiple cores is they all scale and you'll have a better late game? I know they were being greedy but two of your cores are tanky and the other two clear waves really well. Once AM gets a few items, he'll be able to split up the map freeing even more space. Troll won't scale as hard as your two main cores.LC means nothing providing you itemise well. Don't understand why you didn't just duo the trilane and take up as much of their time possible freeing space for your 3 other cores. That being said, looks like it could have been a pretty good Shadow Demon game. Combos well with AM and Luna as well as being a good save against duel and can interrupt dismember.
^ I actually had Shadow Demon selected but decided to go with Venge last minute convinced by the fact that #numbersdontlie
Re: point of having multiple cores is they all scale and have a better late game
- There will only be a late game if you can survive Early and Mid Game
- They got 5 heroes which are very aggressive and strong when together but weak when apart
- As soon as they tri-laned bottom, in my mind, their mid and safe lane became vulnerable
AM doesn't mind trading farm especially against a Storm. I don't understand your concern about the mid game considering Bristle and Dragon Knight need only a few relatively cheap items to be useful whilst Luna's ult is good regardless. The other team don't even synergise that well in regards of teamfight. They revolve mostly around pick off/catching people out with Legion/Pudge. They've not got amazing push either so its not going to be hard for one of your cores to clear the creep wave once it comes to HG whilst you make sure you counter initiate if they do get caught out.
^ Because our mid game consisted of just me being around DK @ mid lane.
Because all other 3 were farming.
Given the enemies line up, venge was a bad pick. Your team lacks hero who can clear waves fast (when enemies are pushing) and disable, hence you should have chosen Winter Wyvern. She can also save your teammate who was dueled since they lack burst damage.
Usually when I am a solo supp, I always ensure that at least 1 of my core the farm he needs to make us win. I think you should have supported Luna all the way until she got her items.
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Versus a legit lineup of Storm, Troll, LC, Pudge &Ogre..
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3617952731
I last picked a VS support and it was a very stressful game where you can see your cores doing so much mistakes inspite of reminders and wards.
Would have lost the game, no reason to win at all .. until 2 game turning clashes when they were knocking on our HG
One of the very few times where you can solo impact the game as pos 5. Tsk tsk!