General Discussion

General DiscussionSandking

Sandking in General Discussion
Stentorian

    On paper, Sandking is amazing. But it's hard to pull off in a game. SK right now has a below 50% win rate in 3k+ brackets, and I've had a bad record with SK as well. I guess this is a summary of my experience with the hero (in semi-decent 4k games).

    SK's pros:

    - AOE Stun
    - Sandstorm = escape/dodge projectiles + can be used for harassing and early jungling stacks
    - Caustic - One of the best anti-push/push skills (and great for beating melee heroes 1v1)
    - Epicenter - On paper the best ult in the game (highest damage output if you can land it)

    So on paper Sandking should be first pick every game. But in reality I always run into the following:

    Cons:

    1. Sand storm - People carry dust/sentry in any decent game. This makes it kind of useless (although still useful for dodging projectiles).

    2. Caustic - The delay between a right click and when it actually procs on a hero makes this an unreliable skill. Still great for pushing.

    3. Epicenter - This is probably SK's biggest weakness, as follows.
    a. First, SK needs a dagger to effectively cast the ult. By investing 2250 gold (in addition to sr/tranq or mb), he doesn't have any tankiness yet he needs to be right in the middle of a fight because of the nature of burrowstrike).
    b. Second, dagger + shift ult can get easily cancelled by things like fissure, or global spells like Zeus, Spec, or Furion's ult. The ult has a long cd, so missing the ult is a big deal (almost as bad as a missed black hole on Enigma).
    c. Third, the ult itself is hard to cast and set off. The channeling is long and easily interrupted by the slightest blow of a fart near SK.

    4. SK is a jack of all trades but master at none.

    Sk can fit pos 3, 4, and 5, but there are too many better options for any of these roles.

    a. pos 5: SK isn't very good at level 1, not nearly as good as shadow shaman or a long-ranged harassing support like disruptor or lane controller like lich.
    b. pos 4: SK isn't all that great as pos 4 either. SB, riki, bh, ES, all do a better job at roaming than SK. You could argue that a roaming WK or CK probably serve the same purpose as SK as pos 4, and have better late game (at the cost of worse anti-push).
    c. pos 3: This is probably SK's best role, as it gives him the potential to 1v1 a melee hero (which never happens - no support in 4k+ will let an offlaner 1v1 the hc), or fall back to jungle if needed. But even here I can think of many better alternatives (like Underlord, necrophos, or even a boots lich).

    5. Too many items that counter SK.

    SK is magic dependent. But the current meta gives every hero ample item options to counter epicenter. Pipe, force staff, bkb, all make SK useless mid-late game. For a hero that can't tank or deal physical dps, magic damage is all SK has, and in most semi-decent games opponents would farm pipe/bkb and make SK obsolete.

    So in sum - SK is far from the worst hero in the game (Tiny says hi), but I'm going to stop picking him because I'm at a loss at how to have a big impact on the game consistently with this hero for the aforementioned reasons.

    This topic was edited
    Aethoeix

      U have inflated ur mmr by playing broken heroes (underlord, necro) and now u will go to the place u belong if u play not broken heroes (sk)

      Cheap Laugh Guy

        Earthshaker totally replaced him whether pos 3 or pos 4

        Johnny Rico

          go into enemy jungle, and disrupt the legion commander

          Riguma Borusu

            I was about to say that "Sand King" is a weir way to spell "Earthshaker" but then I realized that does not make sense and also somebody already compared them.

            i want to die

            Shou

              epicenter doesnt scale at all
              feels like a shitty ult past 35 min

              Melt

                He's pretty fun to spam on smurfs :)

                chicken spook,,,,

                  Anything is fun to spam against smurfs since you're probably a sadistic fuck like me anyway

                  👉👉P O S I T I V I T Y :D

                    Isn't sandking a top roarmer now?
                    I knoe that in the qualifiers to the international, he was the number 1 most contested
                    And I'm pretty sure that he is still a top roamer, a bit less potent than earthshaker, nightstalker, earth spirit and maybe clock and nyx. But still a great hero nowadays

                    StanceWorks

                      Sandking is one of the best heroes in the game for stun. The cooldown on Q is insanely short. A good player can use the stun 3+ times in A fight and that's the difference between a win or a loss. Plus a blink + linkens and good luck killing sk.

                      Väinämöinen

                        teams like LGD run a roaming sk all the time.

                        in moscow major eg played sk roaming often as well

                        he has a targeted reliable low cd stun, which other roamer has this?

                        you can also go caustic lvl 1 with orb of venom and just run at a melee offlaner or mid, no one can trade with that

                        epicenter as a pos 4 is better used as counter initation, after your 3 went in already, so you wont be alone with 5 enemy heros normally.

                        you look at it the wrong way.

                        night stalker and sk are completely different picks.

                        if your 1+2 have good teamfight you pick ns to get good catch and teamfight setup

                        if your 1+2 have low teamfight capabilities you pick sk to get more teamfight damage

                        es is similar,but his stun isnt reliable

                        🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

                          bro, you're playing SK completley wrong

                          SK isn't the damage dealer, that was never an offlaner's job

                          your job is to CC.

                          get force, euls, hex, shiva etc.

                          annoy them, force them to waste money on dusts/sentries.

                          i got to like 5k+ with SK jungle and 5.5k with sk offlane

                          if i can do that, then so can anyone else, you're just bitching.

                          This comment was edited
                          👉👉P O S I T I V I T Y :D

                            Hex and Shiva?
                            What do you think about full mobility cookie? Like blink - force stuff - euls - shadow blade?

                            🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩

                              SB is overkill

                              with euls blink force you shouldn't be able to die unless you do something completely retarded

                              Totentanz to The King: M ...

                                he isnt amazing on paper. he is just okay. his ulti is highly inferior compared to echo slam, his stun has very short range early on, caustic finale is not very useful outside the laning stage (and thats only if you are not a roaming 4) and he can farm well, better than some carries even, but that doesnt translate to much because he doesnt scale that well with items unlike earthshaker or nightstalker.