General Discussionto all below 4k players. for a better dota community.

Enigma - I guess all those pros are fucking retarded or some shit.

t. below 4k player

Alch enigma necro slark qop and support players in pro scene buy midas alot ......idk what you are talking about

Midas is a terrible pub item.

midas is so nice item on every hero but should be picked in some ocassions

Alch midas nr1 meme lmfao.

If you want more money you get midas.

We're totally going to take the advice of a 1.7k player who believes that he can coach other <4k players. Great thinking dude.

you don't need blink to black hole it fine to get it in enigma

Ranked MM 2,429
50.23%

Normal Skill

Jesus Christ.

You should almost always get midas on enigma.
Good comeback item for necro and slark if you get a bad start.
It's especially good on support heroes if they don't desperately need some other item.
I agree with all other points

Initially i thought treadstarter mmr is higher than 4k thats why he gave advice to players with mmr lower than 4k...

I am disappointed now.

This is not how its gonna work - agree on some points (not on necrophos and my winrate is pretty high with him and ususally i buy midas for attack speed with tread into radiance ) but game change how you buying things you cant plan it
maybe you play lc mid and you want to secure late game farm with your good early farm no problem with midas
agree some people always does that its not good

(Correct me if im wrong) I think another factor which determines if midas is an optimal pick-up is the power spikes of your hero, teammates' heroes and enemy heroes, at specific timings during the game.

So one has to assess the flow of the game (is my team ahead on objectives, or are we being overrun) and the winning condition (what does my team require from me to destroy the enemy ancient), and ask one's self: Does midas or another item achieve that?

For example, slark gets a significant spike in the early game with a fast shadow blade pick-up, and in an even game, delaying that for midas might lead to slark missing the timing window to make the impactful early pick-offs which are key to him snowballing, i.e with a midas rush he might not be able to exploit the period of the game where other cores want to dodge fights and he can get kills with less pressure. Keep in mind, this is dependent on lineups, match-ups, and the overall tempo of the game.

Also, midas is generally a great pick-up on supports like nyx and enigma, those heroes scale well and are usually viable as utility cores in the late game.

Agree on all , except Enigma , you aint really fighting that early , and besides , black hole has a long cooldown , so your blink is basically useless for another 180 seconds , so i'd rather have a mias then

Midas is good on enigma cuz its synergize well with his cooldown reduction talent and octarine core

you get midas when they need to come back into the late midgame, you need levels to compensate for your bad lane.

if a slark had a bad lane, and enemy doesn't have easy gankable heroes then your sb will be useless, so you spend 2.7k gold on an item that will give you nothing.

p.s enigma is not a support, he's an offlane(core)

p.s enigma is not a support, he's an offlane(core)

Fair point cookie, now that i remember it's actually been awhile since i have seen enigma as a 4-position in competitive play.

Also i agree with the slark lane thing. Midas can be a comeback item in games with a bad early game.

I think deciding whether to get midas, or any other item, is about weighing how much it pushes your contribution to the game's winning condition, versus the next best alternative, i.e the item's opportunity cost.

if ur team cant go hg at all but ur not losing midas can be good on almost anyone

not ta though lol

THE yellow/orange hand shaped item, called hand of midas , gives 185% extra Exp , that's the most important part , midas isnt for flash farming , creep clearing etc . well you are 1k mmr , what do we expect

gives 185% extra Exp , that's the most important part , midas isnt for flash farming , creep clearing etc .

This. The experience boost is often more important than the extra gold. A good example of exp boost's benefit is on deathball-style heroes like veno and dragon knight, as it enables them to reach their peak pushing capabilities sooner and take buildings faster.

why not midas on enigma?? is that really that bad??

Midas isn't actually bad on a core bh roflmao

he think alche radi is for farm only WTF do you know how radi works ? please dont act like pro here and give advice to 4k less gtfo

to the guys blaming my mmr: im 2.7k now and idk why dotabuff wont update it. and i was in a big span of 1.5k to 3.8k and thats why i approached <4k players.

to some of u which say pro players make it then my statement makes me like a fool : they are pro players. they consider all factors and they make it before maximum 10mins. but in my bracket they insist on making it with an empty inventory for 15~20min!!!! and we lose!

about the case of enigma, i meant jungle nigma, not offlane. and i still wont accept you should delay dagger and stay in woods for 20 mins. and how can you decline the risk of a failed blackhole without dagger? btw if your team has advantage to survive for 15~20 mins, its not that bad.

i know about the extra exp, but a hero like slark who can flash farm with dark pact, wont flash farm exp too? anyway i still make it in situations ... and wont make it if it takes longer than 7-8 mins.

midas is good for supps, but as i said if you manage it before 22mins and your team aint living in a black map

Midas isn't actually bad on a core bh roflmao

if a slark had a bad lane, and enemy doesn't have easy gankable heroes then your sb will be useless, so you spend 2.7k gold on an item that will give you nothing

I stopped reading the post after he stated the no midas on enigma lul

Dafuq? Jungle lc Midas is the best motherfocker

@OP

If you ever play enigma, never jungle it, it's too passive and will be punished even in high 2k.

Plus with neutrals being stronger in this patch (more armor, hp, etc) a greedy hero like enigma takes longer to get the gold and levels he needs to come online.

2Ks do a lot of things wrong, but often there will be at least one tryhard who will pick a completely ungreedy roamer like bounty, riki, or sky to fuck you over from minute 1 and then you are screwed without allies' rotations (which will also set them back if they come to help).

Same applies to lc actually. Both enigma and Lc are so much better in the offlane where eidolons and overwhelming odds give them a lot of control over lane equilibrium, thus enabling them to contest if not kick the enemy safe laner out of the lane.

all you of guys pretend that enigma is played in offlane. I'm 100% convinced that offlane enigma never gets picked until higher mmrs. so when OP sais, dont buy midas on enigma, in 99& of the cases in sub 4k mmr its true.

@OG.n0brain

tnx man for the advice, well i was good with enigma woods the previous patch and had a break between the old patch and new patch. so i never tried offlaning him yet. and yes my winrate with him is a bit declined in new patch. ill now try offlaning him, and probably ill try midas too.

so what build you suggest for offlane nigma? do you max eidolons for pressing or just 1 point in it for lane control? what item build?

Are you stupid??? Supports need midas for levels and for late game and why should we listen to a normal skill player???wtf

hello im barely 3k but i think that i know how to play dota

Are you stupid??? Supports need midas for levels and for late game and why should we listen to a normal skill player???wtf

i cant believe how many retards are playing dota rn, read what i said. im saying if u cant make it around 22 min. forget it. and meanwhile dont let your team play with no wards. a 30 mins midas is useless cuz a normal game last 40 mins approax.

i bet again someone posts about enigma and supps and exp gain !

p.s. i dont know whose account u borrowed cuz im sure 46% winrate aint normal and means youre not even 3k. soon youll reach 1k which u deserve

enigmas an offlaner whether or not people in ur mmr are playing him as one

hes a fast jungler too but thats like being a gold medalist at the special olympics

Guys, Why do you laugh at him?
For his mmr he made some good points.
People really overuse midas even in 5k mmr games.
I regularly See AMs or alchs building it and those people are just plain retarded. Period.

OP, for offlane enigma the optimal skill build depends on the lane match-up. You generally max eidolons asap with value points in first and third skills. If enemies play more aggressive, more points in stun may become necessary, so you put those points there instead of eidolons. It's situational.

It's also not uncommon to skip ultimate at lvl 6 unless you are involved in a gank where you need it. If you learn ultimate at lvl 6 and dont get any kills or assist from it before you level up again, it's a wasted point.

If you are facing a hard lane, then falling back into the jungle becomes necessary, but you dont completely sack the lane, depending on what the enemy heroes are and how aggressive they play.

I.e if you are being zoned out by a support hero but the enemy carry itself cant really contest you, you can do stuff like:

1. pulling the hard camp using eidolons

2. denying your own range creep by turning it into eidolons, or

3. (advanced technique) hijack their creep wave just before their tier 1 tower with eidolons and pull the wave to your own tower for uncontested last hits.

Then after the support leaves the lane to gank, you resume trying to out-cs and harass the enemy carry out of lane.

If the enemy carry itself can zone you out, then 1. Block hard camp with a ward so they cant stop their creep wave from pushing toward your tower, 2. and fall back to jungle until the creep wave is near or at your tower then come out to farm again.

For more details and to see all these in actual play, get on youtube and search "dota 2 offlane enigma". There are plenty of videos of pro players playing the hero, so analyse how they do it, and then go practice it in unranked a large number of times before using it in ranked.

If you want the results do your homework.

You sell it for 1k gold anyway and it gives you attack speed. Saying you waste 2k gold is ignorant and exaggerating.

midas good on abaddon. sometimes on viper.

but yea it's almost always overkill/too late.