my last game i played against a 5stack, which had a magnus and a PA.
PA built battlefury????
dota really is filled with braindead people
the differences are rly small actually , like a difference from a 7k beetwen a 6.5k is much higher than the difference between a 2k and a 4k. way much higher. for a a 7k. 1234k-se are like a whale watching some planctons , there are difference in size of those planctons but not noticable in the eyes of the whale it will swallow milions of them . maybe not the best example lul. prety much this is the idea.
also the variances have way to much impact lower mmr cause of those slightly differences betwen players. like drafting , communication , player mode , "team work". can make way to much differences in games. thats why it kinda sucks for my opinion but spaming is best way to climb at those brackets, lower the variances way to much. in a 4k game if your mid lests say have a rly good pick "by mistake" they dont usually know to analise draft, and the other mid has a bad hero for that game , or he is not that comfortable with the hero he is playing compare to the other one that is a "spammer" than even they might be both 4k, the "real mmr" for that game will like a 6k vs a 3k.
like a difference from a 7k beetwen a 6.5k is much higher than the difference between a 2k and a 4k
i think you meant other way around. Since differences between 4k and 2k are huge.
a 2k difference far greater than a 500 difference, regardless of the bracket.
but yea 1-4k are basically planktons.
"🍩🍪Cookie🍪🍩 9 hours ago
a 2k difference far greater than a 500 difference, regardless of the bracket.
but yea 1-4k are basically planktons."
that simply doesnt make sense . in 2k bracket are like 90% of the players . in 4k about 10-12% , yeah the differences are "high" depend on the poin of the view. meanwile 7k is 0.1 % of all players. the point is that skill differense have that " snowball effect'. it keeps geting much higher by multiple times as the mmr rise, so yeah there is absolutely no way that a 4k is much better than a 2k ,compare to a 7k is to a 6,5. i mean a 6.5k needs to put way much effort more like 10 times more to climb to 7k than a 2k needs to reach 4k. lets stick to my example since yo uagre with it. 1-4k are planctons, it doesnt matter that much if a plancton is double size biger than the other. if a 7k is a whale the 6.5k is jsut a "big" fish , not even close to the whale. meanhile planctons jsut planctons man doesnt matter that much if someone is a biger plancton than other.
you make these observations from playing 1-4k games
you've never played 6-7k average games, there's a huge skill difference.
but that difference is not the same as 2k to 4k.
2k to 4k is like grand canyon to sky
while 6k to 7k is like ground to a sky scraper
thats waht im saying 6-7k is a huge skill difference!!! did we misunderstand or something. btw that clearify one thing. i dont usually speak only from my personal experience observation. i dont pretend that im the allknowledge , i make further researches from other prespective , that are alos high mmr than me( not than they smarter neccesarly) but exactly cause they have other experience than mine. i 've see players like blitz , and other dota analists,coaches, talking about this . and thats prety much the idea the differences between skills keeps getting higher and higher as mmr rises. it is also mathematicaly proved by that percentile of the players that play in certain brackets, but im not going to in detailed explanation here, ijsut gave my opinion to op, its not my purpose here to make people agre with me.
wtf i jut read your edited post. are fucking insane?? you are overstimating 4k so much . the difference beetwen 4k and 2k are prety basic stuff , i spend almsot same amunt of time playing in both those brackets . the differences are prety basic , its jsut the way they pres the buttons and that 4k take dota more seriosly. and thats it prety much, thery game knowledge is almost the same. they jsut dont fuck around that much as 2k-se do , and they usually play heores that they are comfortable playing almsot every game, so they can do decent in whilein " auto-pilot" , but fuck it 1-4k play " auto-pilot" i dont care att all about theyr differences .
Cookie I think that generally 7k players overall game analysys is far better than let's say 6 6.5k player whereas lower you go this game analysys is just not existant ex : where EXACTLY position your hero in the lane against x opponent where EXACTLY to be 10-12 min in the game based on supports tp cooldowns, high cooldown skills, how to play the map etc. People including me star just playing on autopilot maybe thinking about something once in a while disregarding all the things that they should be conceidering.
There's is so much conceptual knowledge skill cap between 7k and anything below and I think that's what Brat bot means.
Nevertheless difference between 2k and 4k is fucking huge it's just not the same thing.
MMR is nothing more than measuring of how likely you are to win the game in given bracket. Its like the more you know times your mechanical skill. For example 3k will probably lose to 4k because on average 4k will last hit better, know the matchup better, know how to manipulate the lane equilibrium to his advantage etc etc. Whereas high skill dota is like taking everything that's below 7k perfecting every detail of it and then adding tons of analysys.
I'd still agree that 500mmr in 2.5k to 3k to 3.5k to 4k Is WAY easier than 500 mmr from 7.5k to 8k or even 6.5k to 7k.
you can't have a good analysis of the meta because you lack the understanding of hte mechanics.
reason you can have gamesense in 5-10k is because you mastered mechanics and now need a new way to win.
a 4k can play with feet in 2k and win
for a 7k a 6k game is still hard.
yeah mage thats waht im saying it doesnt matter if a plankton is 10 times bigger than other plankton , he is still fucking plankton. for cuki as example, he will need a shit tons of analise replays and a lot of practice , and meta analises further than he does, and he still maybe might not get to 7k. but for a 2k to climb to 4k, jsut need to learn some basic stuff and a little bit practice , i know that from my personal observaton, iv'e seen friends of mine being 2k for years, and after realise that they not that good at dota as they think and start watching some guides and other higher mmr players, climbing to 4k in no time . depends on how much they played actually , thats all.
I can't agree Cookie, good mechanics are 100% needed but mastering game mechanics doesn't mean you will climb mmr to 5k. It cerenly makes a difference but still mmr is not what you know but rather how much you know compered to others + your mechanical skill.
My point is you can beat 5k player in lane as 3k but you will most likely make other mistakes because you lack knowledge.
that's up to the person's aiblity to improve, my ability to improve is way above average.
i'm going to objectively say, skill difference between 2k and 4k is 100x bigger than 6k to 7k.
for example, it took me a week from 5k to 6k because i literally just learned/improved 2 things: early map awareness and playing the map.
to a non 5-6k player you'd say the skill difference between 5-6k is huge, but it's simply not.
when you're new to the game you simply don't know what you need to improve, while a high player already knows what he needs to learn to get to the next level of gameplay.
and this is why it's harder at lower brackets, not to mention the fact that everyone plays like an idiot so you'll pick up a thousand bad habbits which will limit your mmr.
I can't aggee, good mechanics are 100% needed but mastering game mechanics doesn't mean you will climb mmr to 5k. It cerenly makes a difference but still mmr is not what you know but rather how much you know compered to others + your mechanical skill.
My point is you can beat 5k player in lane as 3k but you will most likely make other mistakes because you lack knowledge.
if you were to master every mechanic you'd have 4-5k mmr guaranteed, no matter how bad your decisions are.
lul cuki, your so "closed mind " actually, you based almost on in your self experience in your statements, yes mechanis are usually the difference beetwen a 4k to a2k, but not always, thats i think" mmr is jsut a numbr" its somehow tru ant 4k below, cause they have no standarts at all, i've seen 1k players with huge better mechanics than the other guys where playing in that game, i mean he was a sven he had around 70 cs in 10 min, while the higher cs guy after him was a 16 cs lina mid, with no 0 points on his first skill lul. and that sven started stacking and farming ancient, and was like triple networth than anyone in the game, i saw that in a shitcast purge made some years ago, and till min 20 he though that this sven was a smurf, but than he "exposed himself so hard, he had 0 fight participation, and a lot of dumbshit came after and he lost the game,his overall skill were same as the others , even his mechancis were much higher. that guy for ex ,if he jsut take dota more seriosly and start to learn some basic stuf from higher mmr he can ez go to 4k, i mean the chances that he reach 4k if he wants are way much higher than you reaching 7k.
The last part is 100% true but still I'm not 7k and you are not 7k my knowledge about this bracket is form actual 7.3+ ppl who describe what it looks like to play with people 1k 0.5k below and what a huge difference it makes to be this 500-1000 mmr higher.
My personal opinion is that Cookie you are really fucking good at certain heroes that's why you can be 7k in no time because of the time you took to analyse win conditions of these heroes. You can be 6k 7k on 1,2,3 heroes but it's that game knowledge and ingame analysys that will allow any player to play high mmr games with like 1/4 of hero pool.
dude if you're 6k you get into high 4k and low 5k matches all the time.
you almost never get a 6.0 game
it's either 6.5k avg or 5.5k avg.
@Bart Bot my statements come from my primary source of dota knowledge
analysing replays
which i've analysed hundreds of 1-8k replays
and i'm simply gonna stand by my statement, skill difference at lower brackets is far higher than at higher brackets.
"if you were to master every mechanic you'd have 4-5k mmr guaranteed, no matter how bad your decisions are."
that doesnt make sense mechancs its not something that you can master 100% , yo ucant never be perfect mechanicly , it s based on how talented mechanicly you are. like in football for ex, lonel messi is like the best player " technically" in the world, technique in football=mechanis in dota for al lthe weebs that never watch football XD. but he is not perfect . wahti mean is that doesnt exist suc ha thing as" master every mechanic' . doesnt matter how much you try and you practice to master your mechancis artezy or prety much any pro will be always better than you at that part cause he is jsut more naturally talented that you.
Yes but still I'm comparing game skill you think about mmr as a number that let's you queue into the game. But I'm talking about skill mesurment system. Like I don't have too much time to play dota, I watch coaching sessions whenever i can and form this perspective climbing form 3k where people start to be overally decent at throwing their skills and can somehow mimic what they should do now to 5k is just matter of time and how good you are at pressing the buttons. I'm not telling that 3k to 5k is the same it's just these players are different by how good they do the same things. Whereas the more you climb the more you have to learn.
what you on about, of course you can. you can learn mechanics beyond ingame mastery, then when you're in a game you can downsize them to reality.
same way i have farming patterns mastered far beyond what i'd need in a real match, but when i farm in a real match i don't have to think about the creeps im hitting i can just watch the map or coordiante my temamates or someshit.
that's what drills are for, so when you are in a real match you won't have any execution anxiety, because you overlearned it.
Remember this.
-0k is hellgate level 0
-1k is hellgate level 1
-2k is hellgate level 2
-3k is hellgate level 3
-4k is the final gate
So what i'm trying to say is each time you get a higher level, the toxicity of the team level will increase.
oh no, toxicity doesnt stop at higher mmr
like their gameplay, they also get better at flaming you.
yeah mage thats it exactly they jsut better at the exact same things they do thats it.i saw a 3.5k player that started recently practice in mid cause he is newin dota, playing 1vs1 against a 4.5 k mid player and he lsot mostly to him , but also beated him sometimes. they way they played looked exactly the same , no one was taking advandage to haras when had more creeps or some shit like that, he was wining jsut casue mostly of the time he last hited better that him. but as i heard blitz saying, the chances that a 2k beats a 3k in 1vs1 are like gambling it can happen many times. but a 7k beating a 8k 1vs1 its almost imposible " i feel like im terrible at dota, i wanna quit , when iplay vs a 8k mmr " blits himself said he is 7.4 btw.
And that's exactly my point you have mastered mechanics AND THEN you can focus on ingame analysys but form 3.8k-4.5k most players just autopilot 80% of the game all they see is farming patterns sometimes they track supports etc they even don't know what to think about that's why imo climbing form my perspective to 5k would be much easier then to 7k because I just have to work on my in game analysys because everyone 3.8k to 5k has decent mechanical skill and okayish mechaincs knowledge
if i recall there was a 1v1 mid turnament at a major recently where 7ks beat 8-9k players
ok ywn, you're the 7k here
how often do you actually have advantage against an 8k in the midlane, excluding when the support sucks you dry.
I don't know why you put it up here it's obvious that what differs 7ks form 8ks and above is either tryharding or ingame analysys it differs form a player to player but it can be lane mechanics midgame positioning midgame decisions etc.
Still I don't want anyone to think that I find myself better than anyone becaude i watched some replays and yt vids I just wanted to express my opinion and show my reasoning behind it whether it's correct or not I guess that's why this forum is :)
haha rape mid? =)
last game 12/13 400 gpm nice rape mid LOL!! =D
noob anime xD
Ok then go watch 2k average game and then 4k average game. From neutral and objective perspective. Then come here and write that "there is no big difference between 2k and 4k". Saying 4k is same shit as 2k is wrong on so SO many levels. The higher you go in MMR, the more detailed differences between brackets are and that is just fact. Not in just dota matchmaking, overall, in any fucking place where there is scaling ladder of something.
Interesting topic, sometimes I feel the same way with what op said. But I managed to climb from 3k to 3.8-3.9k (im filthy casual dont flame me pls) the biggest difference that I feel is that in my games right now (compared to before in 3k), there are almost no jungler both in ally or enemy team. If theres a jungler, the enemy team will be able to take full advantage and win most of the time.
you think i've not seen 2k and 4k games from neutral perspective? lol. prety much some dumbshit same fucking autopilot mode , they jsut have different trends different meta, less junglers, more , roamers. roamers with no idea waht they doing or why.prety much same as junglers in 2k, same way of thinking , always countering based on 1vs1 match ups, 0 idea how to pick play objectively, jsut some better presing buton mechanicly and thats it. and thats i'ts cause they care more about theyr mmr and foccus on a small hero pool and play 1-2 roles. 2k-se care less, more randoms over there , more double mid, more mistakes in general yeah. thats nothing compare to what a 7k does better than a 6k, imean the 6k may even never realise no matter how hard he tries , waht to do to be 7k cause there are those small details but that have way to much imapct more than you think. again im turing in my "fish" example. try to imaginate 2 planktons 1 is bigger and 1 is smaller, how much difference in size they might have? now try to think 2 " whales" 1 is 30 m long, another is 15. even if the planktons are 10 times bigger than some others , they differences can never be as high as between 2 whales are, i did not do that boys, is mothefucking nature XD. that being watched from neutral perspective , cause watching from smaller plankton personal perspective yeah he looks so small to other that is 10 times bigger lul. you learned the lessons kids? or shouldi illustrate with some anime pictures you fucking weebs XD
Mafioso, i seriously can't read your blocks of text anymore. Start editing things into short but precise paragraphs, otherwise i'll stop bothering to read it all together.
@Kenny Dope , why you afraid of getting flamed kid? flames makes you stronger , feel fre to say your opinions , why do you give a shit if a bunch of kids will flame you. even if you say some rly dumb stuf who cares, i mean it cant be dumber tha jacked used to be if you know who it is lol. but iliked that kid cause he used to psot a shit tons of dumb shits getting flamed constantly and did not care. thats a lil bit extreme lul. but you got the idea.
@ sry cuki this is my last block of text , itry to fix that shit. at least ihope . cause if i would be good at fixing my own mistakes i would have been a " whale " already " instead of a "big plancton " lol.
You post nothing but empty superficial assumptions that is insanely hard to read..
prety much some dumbshit same fucking autopilot modethis sentence proves it.
And your logic is fucking broken. If on 6k and 7k differences are smaller then thus how is it even possible that difference in term of skill can be higher than from 2k to 4k. Between 6k and 7k you have small detailsl like IDK, using aggro more effeciently(just an example) meanwhile between 2k and 4k you have mid that has complete shit itemization which should be basic of game. Where is the gap bigger?
My solo is currently at avg 4k mmr but sometimes, I play in a 3k+ avg mmr games due to party.
The difference between 3k and 4k mmr player in my opinion are actually not that high.
Sometimes, 3k are only 3k is because they played less ranked games, while 4k are 4k because they played a lot of ranked games.
Skill wise, a 4k player is superior in all aspect of the game compare to a 3k player but only in a small margin. Like bout +10% better. A 4k player will win 60% of his games in a 3k avg game while 3k player win only 40% of his games in a 4k avg.
But, 4k and 5k is a lot different, since account can't no longer calibrate above 4k, reaching a 5k mmr required skills, not just playing time. I remember playing with a 5k player in a single draft game and the skill difference is very obvious.
it seems that you dont understand nothing from what i said. . so you contesting yourself with that argument or you high or some shit or what?lol, so having differecnes bettwen basic stuff is more big of a deal than having advanced ones?that shit itemazation if thats why let a 2k behind he can fix that jsut by watchin a 5min hero guide. but to fix those small details will need months of practice son. whatever since no one else contesting or having any question for waht isaid i assume that they jsut understand waht isay but dont agre and others think the same, so im gonna end it and " call it a day" sry boy you are going to be left behind XD. @ coroner
I can beat any 7-8k ez, but team holds me back, so the difference between mmr is team, based on those observations
try to imaginate 2 planktons 1 is bigger and 1 is smaller, how much difference in size they might have? now try to think 2 " whales" 1 is 30 m long, another is 15. even if the planktons are 10 times bigger than some others , they differences can never be as high as between 2 whales are, i did not do that boys, is mothefucking nature XD. that being watched from neutral perspective , cause watching from smaller plankton personal perspective yeah he looks so small to other that is 10 times bigger lul. you learned the lessons kids? or shouldi illustrate with some anime pictures you fucking weebs XD
lol, i know your a fan of mine, but can you say something of yours here brah? we are not going to make fun of you probably no matter waht you say. you know your one of the bigest whales here, and weebs too lul.
Please sign in to post comments.
I mean, same amount of trolls, same amount of feeders, same amount of afk'ers, same amount of idiots, the fact that ur in a 3,5k average mmr game and have 3 feeders in your team is just absolutely astonishing. The fact that in the same game last pick was pa offlane is absolutely mind blowing, the fact that in the same game mirana and BH keep blocking my jungle's camps with wards and sentries is absolutely amazing.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3460381219