You said before that you thought it was weird anyone would copy you but you don't care. I'm not coming on here to threaten you or talk shit about you so back off. Leave me alone and let me play dota before I start college.
What the fuck are you talking about do you want to see her every game?
The only way to make her balanced while still not being dogshit is shifting the meta to her favor
Either make sieging hard again, making safelane a better place, etc
@fox
The higher base dmg or higher base move speed or lower Mana cost all sound needed
Dagger is good for farming and moving between camps but spec can't afford to spam it, also any early game changes that help her laning stage wud also be needed.
None of you even mentioned that the only way for her to escape a gank in the laning phase is to dagger into the trees and hide while there are so many heroes with flying vision in the current meta. Add Monkey King to that and she'll have a tough time farming.
Let me explain radiance heroes in basics:
1. You pick alchemist, you farm radiance fast coz you can take stacks with acid and get more gold coz of greed. You buy manta because you can farm it faster now that you have radiance, and it synergizes well by sending illusions into creepwaves. Plus the stats and ability to dispel disables etc. Those who say Alch can fight with radiance and ultimate are wrong. That's the most overrated ultimate and he can be burst down real fucking easily. Its harder when he has Armlet but definitely not impossible.
2. You pick Naga, you farm it later than Alchemist because you don't have greed, but still a good time coz of your illusions and the E.
3. Any other hero you build radiance on, you split push and farm. That's what the item is for. Its not a fighting or sieging item.
4. You want to buy radiance on spectre? No gold advantage, no cleave, no illusions, no flash farming capabilities. You spam dagger to get the creepwaves health low? You suffer from a small mana pool and find yourself out of mana when ganked and need to escape.
5. The only way I see spectre working out is by not buying radiance. I'd like to see the hero engaging in fights early. Most probably with a Mask of madness. Even then, she doesn't have high armour or inherent tankiness to compensate for that. I'd like to see a good strength and agi stat item first before going MOM. Maybe DL? Similar to how Lycan goes Armlet and MOM which works so well.
I could give you an Aghs upgrade idea: Auto dagger on all enemy heroes when she uses Haunt and increases the duration/reduces the cooldown. But it won't matter. This hero will never have the slots to waste it on an Aghs.
Rad for Spec isn't purely for farming unlike Alch or naga. It's pretty much needed because when you haunt the rad affects all enemies and pretty much takes supports to half hp even without reality. That's why it's core.
The only time Spec should skip rad is when you're losing and saving 3.8k before 15 mins isn't an option. But even then when you make a comeback you can still go rad after diffusal or blademail or w/e you're making to be useful.
Spec isn't inherently tanky? Are you fucking serious?
Dispersion is a 22% dmg reduction and increases hp by an effective amount of 28% rank 4. For physical dmg that's actually not a huge gain on it's own, 4.6 armor would do the same thing, but it stacks with armor so it ends up being really big. For magic dmg it's a ton of reduction.
Then spec has a absurdly tanky talents. Almost everyone takes the tank talents, only level 10 one do I see people often take dmg. But if you go 5 armor, 8 stats, 20 str, 400 hp that's 960 hp and a little over 7 armor from talents. Add dispersion on top of that and that's crazy tanky. And it doesn't come super late either, 5 armor and 8 stats at 15 is already a lot of beef.
Which is why radiance is so good on spec and why it's a fighting item, not a farming item for her. Because all she needs to do is survive in team fights and she does so much aoe dmg with dispersion and radiance. It's why rushing heart right after radiance on spec is perfectly viable, or going vlads first is fine too.
The issue with spec is not tanking at all, it's lack of dmg and farm early. So here's what to do, two options, one's active one and one passive.
Reduce dagger mana cost to 50. I know that's a gigantic buff to one skill. But now spec can farm with it, much like how troll farms with his axes and just aquila.
OR passive boost:
Buff agility gain to like 2.5 a level and base dmg by 10 so level 1 dmg is 58 average not 48.
Honestly spec isn't even that terrible at farming early cus with 1 pt in dispersion and a ring of hp she can sustain. The issue is people build naked radiance. If you go iron talon and yasha first you won't have such issues farming. She'll never be a flash farmer like sven, ta, troll and others but she'll keep up with weaker farmers like ck and wk who mostly rely on getting early fights.
"Rad for Spec isn't purely for farming unlike Alch or naga. It's pretty much needed because when you haunt the rad affects all enemies and pretty much takes supports to half hp even without reality. That's why it's core."
That's not solely why it's core. It's one reason, but one of the smallest ones tbh. If you're only goal is to knock out as many supports as possible during haunt then diffusal rush should be in every game as well but it's not. Radiance is core cus as I said above she's actually super tanky and thus can deal tons and tons of dmg just by living longer in fights with radiance.
And haunt radiance also will disable all enemy team's blinks which can be a huge deal.
@Dire Wolf
I'm talking about the early game/laning phase. Armour, magic resistance and damage reduction all need a good amount of HP to actually make the hero tanky. Dispersion is also the last skill to be maxed after Spectral Dagger and Desolate for that reason.
This hero will never have the slots to waste it on an Aghs.
People said this about literally every carry that got an aghs in the last few years. Drow aghs? Not core but a great item. PL aghs? Not core but a great item.
Haunt is the most broken mechanic in dota and Spectre's most unique ability. It provides 7 seconds of vision on enemy and 13 seconds of Blink Dagger canceling with OoV on level 18. Usually failed initiation is an equivalent of lost team fight. I think this aspect of Spectre won't receive any buffs. Similar to her recent strength buff she will receive some lanning buff.
I don't think we should discuss on whether or not spectre deserves to get a buff - she's bound to at this point with 0 p/b at TI. History repeats itself.
For example, one of her passives could get an active, like for example if you click Desolate, you get 20/28/36/44% splash damage for 10 seconds on 20sec cooldown, but while it's active, you lose the + pure damage on isolated target.
Or something completely different.
"The only way I see spectre working out is by not buying radiance. I'd like to see the hero engaging in fights early. Most probably with a Mask of madness. Even then, she doesn't have high armour or inherent tankiness to compensate for that. I'd like to see a good strength and agi stat item first before going MOM. Maybe DL? Similar to how Lycan goes Armlet and MOM which works so well."
so you say while having an item that silences yourself and reveals yourself to the enemy while radiance has 66% winrate on spectre
She won't get any major buff for sure
She will get one or more of the following
Base dmg
Base movespeed
Lower dagger Mana
Maybe higher base hp or armor but I'm not sure abt that
18% miss, like 17% bash on Bara, Lul
You said before that you thought it was weird anyone would copy you but you don't care. I'm not coming on here to threaten you or talk shit about you so back off. Leave me alone and let me play dota before I start college.
www.dotabuff.com/heroes/spectre/players
27th worldwide.
Yess buff her please so I can finally reach 5k
Aghs upgrade: permanent global radiance on all enemy heroes
54 posts in the only logical suggestion was Desolate working on Daggered units. That'd be really good for her farming too, actually.
Dude if ur too retarded to understand then there isn't any helping u
Lawliepop is about to rekt u anyway
Goodbye
What the fuck are you talking about do you want to see her every game?
The only way to make her balanced while still not being dogshit is shifting the meta to her favor
Either make sieging hard again, making safelane a better place, etc
@fox
The higher base dmg or higher base move speed or lower Mana cost all sound needed
Dagger is good for farming and moving between camps but spec can't afford to spam it, also any early game changes that help her laning stage wud also be needed.
Desolate working on Daggered units is actually also a thing in HoN, Sand Wraith, long long ago.
Autism
come to think of it why are there even heroes with sub 50 attack damage at level 1
Make her base attack time faster.
None of you even mentioned that the only way for her to escape a gank in the laning phase is to dagger into the trees and hide while there are so many heroes with flying vision in the current meta. Add Monkey King to that and she'll have a tough time farming.
First off, chances are haunt will not receive a cooldown buff as icefrog nerfed it recently and he doesn't like going back on buffs/nerfs.
Secondly, from this thread it seems Spectre has 3 main problems, early game, illusions dying to cleave and desolate being unreliable.
So increase spectral dagger damage to match standard nuke and reduce manacost for early game.
Give illusions dispersion or a portion of it.
Make desolate only lose 50% of it's damage when enemies are together (or something like it)
Maybe give her an aghs upgrade? Something like PL aghs to help her farm and fight early.
Probably not all these buffs as that would make her op, but probably some of them
no, but rest seems reasonable, but then again, icefrog nerfed her dagger dmg before (6.87?) so idk
What if only haunt illusions got Dispersion?
Also I feel she's mostly okay, they just need to fix the lvl 25 400HP talent being worse than the lvl 20 talent.
Built in radiance talent at level 10.
Let me explain radiance heroes in basics:
1. You pick alchemist, you farm radiance fast coz you can take stacks with acid and get more gold coz of greed. You buy manta because you can farm it faster now that you have radiance, and it synergizes well by sending illusions into creepwaves. Plus the stats and ability to dispel disables etc. Those who say Alch can fight with radiance and ultimate are wrong. That's the most overrated ultimate and he can be burst down real fucking easily. Its harder when he has Armlet but definitely not impossible.
2. You pick Naga, you farm it later than Alchemist because you don't have greed, but still a good time coz of your illusions and the E.
3. Any other hero you build radiance on, you split push and farm. That's what the item is for. Its not a fighting or sieging item.
4. You want to buy radiance on spectre? No gold advantage, no cleave, no illusions, no flash farming capabilities. You spam dagger to get the creepwaves health low? You suffer from a small mana pool and find yourself out of mana when ganked and need to escape.
5. The only way I see spectre working out is by not buying radiance. I'd like to see the hero engaging in fights early. Most probably with a Mask of madness. Even then, she doesn't have high armour or inherent tankiness to compensate for that. I'd like to see a good strength and agi stat item first before going MOM. Maybe DL? Similar to how Lycan goes Armlet and MOM which works so well.
I could give you an Aghs upgrade idea: Auto dagger on all enemy heroes when she uses Haunt and increases the duration/reduces the cooldown. But it won't matter. This hero will never have the slots to waste it on an Aghs.
Rad for Spec isn't purely for farming unlike Alch or naga. It's pretty much needed because when you haunt the rad affects all enemies and pretty much takes supports to half hp even without reality. That's why it's core.
The only time Spec should skip rad is when you're losing and saving 3.8k before 15 mins isn't an option. But even then when you make a comeback you can still go rad after diffusal or blademail or w/e you're making to be useful.
Spec isn't inherently tanky? Are you fucking serious?
Dispersion is a 22% dmg reduction and increases hp by an effective amount of 28% rank 4. For physical dmg that's actually not a huge gain on it's own, 4.6 armor would do the same thing, but it stacks with armor so it ends up being really big. For magic dmg it's a ton of reduction.
Then spec has a absurdly tanky talents. Almost everyone takes the tank talents, only level 10 one do I see people often take dmg. But if you go 5 armor, 8 stats, 20 str, 400 hp that's 960 hp and a little over 7 armor from talents. Add dispersion on top of that and that's crazy tanky. And it doesn't come super late either, 5 armor and 8 stats at 15 is already a lot of beef.
Which is why radiance is so good on spec and why it's a fighting item, not a farming item for her. Because all she needs to do is survive in team fights and she does so much aoe dmg with dispersion and radiance. It's why rushing heart right after radiance on spec is perfectly viable, or going vlads first is fine too.
The issue with spec is not tanking at all, it's lack of dmg and farm early. So here's what to do, two options, one's active one and one passive.
Reduce dagger mana cost to 50. I know that's a gigantic buff to one skill. But now spec can farm with it, much like how troll farms with his axes and just aquila.
OR passive boost:
Buff agility gain to like 2.5 a level and base dmg by 10 so level 1 dmg is 58 average not 48.
Honestly spec isn't even that terrible at farming early cus with 1 pt in dispersion and a ring of hp she can sustain. The issue is people build naked radiance. If you go iron talon and yasha first you won't have such issues farming. She'll never be a flash farmer like sven, ta, troll and others but she'll keep up with weaker farmers like ck and wk who mostly rely on getting early fights.
Enough of the spec buff. Can we get a Tiny buff?
"Rad for Spec isn't purely for farming unlike Alch or naga. It's pretty much needed because when you haunt the rad affects all enemies and pretty much takes supports to half hp even without reality. That's why it's core."
That's not solely why it's core. It's one reason, but one of the smallest ones tbh. If you're only goal is to knock out as many supports as possible during haunt then diffusal rush should be in every game as well but it's not. Radiance is core cus as I said above she's actually super tanky and thus can deal tons and tons of dmg just by living longer in fights with radiance.
And haunt radiance also will disable all enemy team's blinks which can be a huge deal.
Yeah spec doesn't even need a buff.
@Dire Wolf
I'm talking about the early game/laning phase. Armour, magic resistance and damage reduction all need a good amount of HP to actually make the hero tanky. Dispersion is also the last skill to be maxed after Spectral Dagger and Desolate for that reason.
Spectre doesn't rlly need a buff
She just doesnt suit the meta
I'm all in for a Tiny buff. Maybe remove his passive skill and replace it with the one he currently has in Siltbreaker.
People said this about literally every carry that got an aghs in the last few years. Drow aghs? Not core but a great item. PL aghs? Not core but a great item.
www.dotabuff.com/heroes/spectre/players
yeah she definitely needs a buff.. come on volvo!
Haunt is the most broken mechanic in dota and Spectre's most unique ability. It provides 7 seconds of vision on enemy and 13 seconds of Blink Dagger canceling with OoV on level 18. Usually failed initiation is an equivalent of lost team fight. I think this aspect of Spectre won't receive any buffs. Similar to her recent strength buff she will receive some lanning buff.
it's the supports players brain needs buff or the team with spec, she's already strong you fvcking n00bs
Spectre takes your cores to half hp as well
I don't think we should discuss on whether or not spectre deserves to get a buff - she's bound to at this point with 0 p/b at TI. History repeats itself.
It's now a matter on what that buff could be.
For example, one of her passives could get an active, like for example if you click Desolate, you get 20/28/36/44% splash damage for 10 seconds on 20sec cooldown, but while it's active, you lose the + pure damage on isolated target.
Or something completely different.
^ yea no...
Yey so excited for the Spectre buff!
Most likely will be minor tweaking like +3 starting dmg or some shit like that. I'm not really expecting a big buff to Spec.
Next patch will more likely focus on nerfing the crap out of sven, necro, etc.
Personally I'm down for a new item that'll fix her early game. Having to rely on an Urn as a carry just feels ... wrong.
"The only way I see spectre working out is by not buying radiance. I'd like to see the hero engaging in fights early. Most probably with a Mask of madness. Even then, she doesn't have high armour or inherent tankiness to compensate for that. I'd like to see a good strength and agi stat item first before going MOM. Maybe DL? Similar to how Lycan goes Armlet and MOM which works so well."
so you say while having an item that silences yourself and reveals yourself to the enemy while radiance has 66% winrate on spectre
spectre mom is legittttt
You know nothing
I bet you also think that riki is a strong hard carry, and pudge is a strong midlaner
Not saying radi spectre is bad, but item winrate is irrelevant as fuck
spectre always useless in my games. ez vanguard brown boots > radi build
Spectre battle fury instead of radiance? Kappa
She won't get any major buff for sure
She will get one or more of the following
Base dmg
Base movespeed
Lower dagger Mana
Maybe higher base hp or armor but I'm not sure abt that
There you go, new patch buff Haunt illu damage from 30 to 40%
Idk how significant this is tho, considering Diffusal was also nerfed.
spec out of the meta since when>?
idk what u guys are smoking you make vangaurd diffusal gank hard mid game then build radiance manta