@Sama counter playing ursa is easy, phoenix is pretty good at kiting heroes in the early game. Also since I believe that Phoenix is a natural Halberd carrier with A decent size HP pool, I don't find fighting Ursa to be a problem in the late game.
@Renshin Yeah that 3 man counter trilane seems pretty annoying. But I feel like you could do something to not die in that situation.
@Diox cause it has a weird interaction. I remember when Phoenix first came into dota 2, Windrunner could ult Phoenix's egg, causing windrunner to shit stomp every phoenix.
I think the Egg counts as being.... Egg. A Nonhero, Non building, and Non creep object
A lot of viable right click carries this patch makes phoenix not such a good choice. Also winning lanes is really important now and phoenix doesn't really do that either.
bird can do very well in a trilane, also with respect to ursa, just wait until he overpowers, then its safe to dive in and fire spirit , egg etc
However, Alernari has a great point that he cannot jungle effectively IMO until level 7.
Also its tough that bird cannot contest farm very well .
Also since Jugg spin dispels spirits and allows him to attack it during spin, Lifestealer is also a bitch to play against too!
relatively bad hero. al the good things said about phoenix only works on paper.
in team fights anyone with a brain will pop bkb and rape the egg.
the only thing going for phx is he's relatively hard to kill because of dive. But who the hell wants to gank a phx?
LUL @ RENSHIN
Gives link to 4k average MMR game, where hi picks Phoenix with less than what, 10 games on the hero?
@OP, for 7.06d and e, I have 5 wins and 0 losses. The hero is great - just all about knowing when to use your abilities (the mov. slow, as slow, and heal). He is a great counter to LC (pre Agh's), and frankly, doesn't give a fuck about Ursa because you can kite him ridiculously with the usual force staff (or Atos), and you, of course, don't put your egg next to him.
@Stentorian, wrong, wrong and wrong.
Phoenix is still situational, but not bad. Aside from Strong Dispell heroes on your team (Aba and LC?), and Ursa, your Attack Speed Slow is ridiculously strong, especially with the DPS you can get from your lvl 15 talent. Your Dive is also a great movement speed slow, and is especially strong when combined with literally any ability.
Your E can heal and damage alot, especially on rooted targets (usually why you get a Rod of Atos). Great counter to LC if you are smart with your positioning!
in team fights anyone with a brain will pop bkb and rape the egg.
Yeah, no. The whole point of the egg when I've played the hero, is to counter initiate. Also, you use your Attack Speed slow that supports might get 1 click on the egg - if they even bother. Also, you put the egg where only a ranged hero can right click it without movement. Why? Because the enemy team has to decide to either kill you (who has already dumped off 150 dps) or continue to focus on who they initiated on.
^ maybe that works in your bracket when you play against retards.
too many ifs and buts for phoenix to be effective against competent opponents (i'm talking 6k+ so not even my bracket).
I'd rather have a disrupter or a witch doctor on my team.
I've also played Phoenix against a 4k average team, who you may not consider retards, and still managed to make a huge game impact, so I dunno what your problem is.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3267347196 - Played greedy support, with Medium game impact, carried by mid. 3.9k avg mmr.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3259182493 - Played dual offlane with a Jakiro, most damage and healing. 4.3k avg mmr.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3123135787 - Played offlane, got wrecked by AM, but still most impact
And there are more.
@Alenari, feel free to explain and offer evidence - or continue to be an arrogant bastard.
pheonix is ok, but if u're bad at coordinating ur team and positioning urself u're fucked.
Guys u know fury swipes kinda has Low cd right. Waiting for ursa to use it is not a good way to decide when to egg I think.
Also troll destroys egg
My tactic is to either bait ursa, or escape when it comes to that, and I agree that phoenix is best used to counter initiate.
Teamwork is indeed key on phoenix, but in the mid 3k bracket and lower, he is a reliable offlane in my book.
The only problem I have while playing phoenix is a team built around troll, or team bkb. Even then, team bkb is still not as bad as a really good troll.
Also like to point out, if you're good at phoenix, using egg is not your best bet. I always find egg to be a last resort kind of thing. You dive in, get your fire spirits out, and you either chase down the enemy heroes, or just wait for them to come to you. Phoenix in my book is a solid frontliner with a great way to disengage or engage fights at his own pace. A passive Phoenix who's not on the fight 24/7 is not a good phoenix in my book.
Come to late game, I usually have either halberd, or scepter by that point in time. 1 person in bkb usually doesn't do phoenix in, and I feel like the talent system (Post -20 sec spawn cooldown removal) is a great way to get phoenix into the scene.
With that being said however, I do lack the necessary 5k+ games to be remotely credible. (According to puff up elitist assholes). Phoenix in my book has high impact early to mid game, and a troubling (if not hard to stay alive) late game.
Also with my habit of first picking Phoenix, it makes me happy to see a team lose their shit cause someone picked ursa/troll/LC and get fucked by my mind games.
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/330373513/matches?hero=phoenix
vhs 66,6% wr ratio proved kappa
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I feel like phoenix this patch feels underappreciated. I don't know what he's like in 5k + but here in 3k, he seems to be a pretty chill offlane hero.
Thoughts on phoenix this time around?