Idk his skill build tbh
Sb is situational
Vlads is better for pushing, Aquila and morbid is better for laning and early dmg
Manta is situational, but u can buy diffusal regardless of whether u got manta against things like windrun and warcry, etc. U will almost always need bkb, and sny is better than manta for an early powerspike, trolls illusions suck dick tbh.
Max w (axes nuke)
Then max q but have 2-3 points in e, depending on playstyle (sb ganking fighting troll prefers q over e while passive farming troll prefers e over q)
I play mid-lane troll and I've found that aquila>>>>>>>vlads. Vlads isnt an option on mid-lane troll. I go wraith band into phase into aquila into s&y into sb/bkb/casual mask/diffusal/manta into satanic/skadi/mkb/BoT
Troll runs fast, farms fast and kills fast, so I run all over the map farming and killing ppl, with the occasional roshan in between.
Sometimes you dont need bkb, and u need to plan ur items beforehand
Max E -> Q -> W, value point w of course. Go vlads always on safelane. SB is good if you need a silver edge or to catch split-pushing heroes. Manta is shit unless you desperately need the purge such as against treant, if you want to buy a diffusal sny+diffu is fine.
^I wudn't agree with that.
The RoA build should optimally exclude vlads entirely. Instead, you go phase, RoA, casual mask+S&Y/sb and later into satanic, and SELL RoA.
Vlads is good for safe lane farming troll, not for active mid-lane troll.
^I think in his bracket the enemy does not let troll fight and gank around a lot which means the troll is more focused on farming, taking objectives like tower and roshan, and his team helps him lock on a target and all of these things make E useful.
In my own bracket, and esp. since I only play mid-lane troll, I can not think of any instance where I shoudn't max W. That ability, combined with value points in Q and E, make him a terror in the early game.
I think you max W 90% of the games. Even in a freefarm lane, the damage from the axes helps you farm. S&Y is almost mandatory. SB depends on how much you need Silver Edge. I don't like Aquila Mask because it's 2 slots.
I'm pretty sure u max W, it helps u farm faster and the dmg from it is nice early when you want to zone or kill someone and vlads > aquila for me.
^ and ^^ yeah exactly.
I was just trying to figure out why the near-7k maxed e first and gave least priority to w.
^and on lane preference and playing style as well. RoA is perfect for mid-lane troll because the power spike he receives when completing RoA+Phase in the early game is phenomenal. Try it sometime. Go mid, max W, get RoA and phase then hit enemies. You will see what I am talking abt.
Vlads on the other hand, is a farming and sustain tool. They have very different objectives and playing styles. I rushed vlads on mid troll a couple of times as an experiment and it just didn't do what RoA+phase rush did
You only max w first if you have a cm in your team or if you really need waveclear. You don't have enough mana to spam it.
I also think MoM is very strong item on him this patch
I was going to say the same thing, I max W when going aquila + vlads, which I do sometimes, or if cm is on team cus 225 dmg for 50 mana in insanely good but troll still can't spam it.
Max Q always. 10 ms a level doesn't seem like much but it is, plus you need longer bashes early because the proc chance is so low and you don't attack fast yet.
Whether to max axes or fervor is preference and situational. As I said if you have mana to spam axes it's good for farming, otherwise value point it and max fervor. If you are going to be in lane a while do value point in fervor and max axes so hurt enemies and win lane. I also skip ult frequently to max fervor for passive farming cus ult too is too much mana to spam and you usually save it for team fights so if you're like level 10 clearing out jungle and not fighting yet fervor is better.
I say always get aquila. Stats are too good for 900g to skip it. Vlads I get if it's going to benefit team, like there's one more stat right clicker. Vlads is fine it just doesn't upgrade to satanic. But usually satanic is like the last thing I buy so you wait a while for it.
Manta is incredibly situational, only if you need to dispel something and won't be getting bkb. S&y is a lot better otherwise. You need to maim proc cus troll has one slow and you won't hit bashes right away. And the move speed is amazing of course.
I only get diffusal vs heroes I want to mana drain like medusa or wk, but it's a good item. You probably won't have room for both daedulus and mkb if you get it though.
Shadowblade is ok, silver edge is a good upgrade. It depends on if you want to play ganker troll. I'd rather farm and push and team fight.
I guess it really depends on your allies, if you have allies that can help slow or disable somebody for long periods of time, you go for berserker's rage, but if your team lacks disable and the enemies you're going for can't dispel whirling axes or blink away, you go for whirling axes.
If you go for berserker's rage first, almost always max for fervor second. But your should at least have one value level of every ability pre-6.
I disagree cus while troll is pretty good early, he's going to flash farm up his s&y before taking many fights and you want max move speed for that. You want like 15 minute phase, aquila, morbid mask (or vlads), s&y and then go kick everyone's ass at level ~12 with a 4/2/4/1 build.
I see more bloodthorns on trolls than daedalus nowadays. I also rarely see people get mkb in general.
i cant see any situation you'd skip W. it feels like more value compared to what.. move speed early on?
only way i see udont max w is if they have no physical dmg, and you're going some MOM build
MKB is only if countering dodge. I'll buy it if there's potential for anyone to build butter later, like vs a jug or sniper, even though butter will be like their last item, you don't want them to finish it while you're only halfway through mkb.
I still build daedulus, I've never built bloodthorn, can't say what's better. Probably daedulus is more dmg and BT for the silence. Stats are good but there's only like 3 real stat items, s&y/manta, skadi and silver edge, so what do you mean you prefer stats? You could get s&y, silver, edge, skadi, phase, satanic and still have a spot for bloodthorn. Casual crystalis to upgrade to either of those later is a big boost. Something like phase, aquila, morbid mask, s&y, crystalis, bkb, skadi, finish bt or daedulus. If you don't need bkb it's a really good progression to farm a quick crystalis.
Also I don't like to use bkb to survive nuke dmg. Your hp talent + skadi/satanic are better for that cus they don't expire. Bkb is for anti kiting and disables.
To the guy recommending MoM, how do you use the item on troll?
Do you stack both the ultimate and MoM aspd buff? Or ultimate, wait buff to finish and then MoM, or maybe MoM wait buff to finish - ultimate?
MoM sounds horrible, you won't be able to switch to ranged if you have to or throw your slow out.
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I have questions regarding his "standard" skill and item build.
Skill Build :
1) Max your nukes or max fervor? How many points in your Q is needed early to mid game?
Item Build :
1) Vlads or Aquila + Morbid Mask?
2) How good is Shadow Blade on him? In 4k bracket? When should you buy the item?
3) SnY + BkB or Manta + Diffusal?