RPQ-sama a few seconds ago
Because he's a pos 1 or 2 (mostly 2 but can work as pos 3 as well) hero that should focus on building other things most of the time. The reason armlet is good is because it gives you HP on top of armor, as well as 60+ damage.
Solar crest doesn't do shit against nukes, disables or kiting, which are about the two things DK is most afraid of. SO you have to understand that Solar Crest sounds great, but it delays your armlet (hp), maybe your SnY if you're going for that (pretty decent on him right now), blink if you need to initiate, or your BKB if they can nuke you to the ground.
Basically, the item is bad on DK because he needs a shitton of other things to be/stay relevant, and a pos 3 or pos 4 can get a solar crest decently fast if you need to, and at that point you've saved yourself a slot and didn't fuck up your own DK item timings.
See https://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2017-06-20-dragon-knight-solar-crest-build
bbut if you assume cleave mechanics then he deals more damage with cleave if the primary target has less armor.
This is wrong, you want the target you are hitting to have least armor because that means it takes most damage. Everyone else takes damage that is only dependant on whether you hit the target (or if the target has blood thorn debuff IN WHICH CASE YOU ARE 100% CRITTING EVERYONE).
Basically everything you cleave takes % damage of your base+bonus dmg no matter what, there's no way to shield yourself from this EXCEPT for damage block and damage resistance in general (ursa, io's overcharge, boat buff, ghost scepeter, guardian angel, aghs duel, etc). And not to mention, different armor types are accounted for, but that's not very relevant, this just means creeps take more damage from cleave than heroes do.
The primary target's armor doesn't matter, since cleave ignores armor altogether, but you want to make sure you are hitting the target so MKB or Blood Thorn are good for that.
And yeah, crest is bad on Sven for the same reasons it is bad on DK. You already have a shitton of armor, you need anti-kiting, disable resistance and damage, just like DK.
Also Sven farms so fast that it makes no sense to include a solar crest into his build since he can get get his actual core items really fast. If you really want to, you can build a crystalis for less money, since you don't need armor though evasion is good, the thing is, crystalis builds into either daedalus or blood thorn which are core on sven, pretty much.
If you stretch it really hard, and want to build solar crest on pos 1 or 2, I'd say you could even do that shit on shadow fiend, even, but like, all those heavy armor melee heroes gain so little from it that it's amazingly ineffective for the money.
Only super unique thing I know concerning Sven's cleave mechanics is that you'd rather hit an illusion than a tanky hero - because the cleave ignores armor + damage block.
Also, getting a quelling blade in lane, and attacking a lane creep with cleave will deal more cleave damage to any opposing heroes.
I also know that -armor items aren't that great on Sven - aside from AC, but that is more for the +armor and +AS.
Situational. Sven has some item timings. Unless enemy team has no stuns, you want to rush bkb and blink. And after that you're probably starting to save for bigger late game items which solar crest is not.
If you can get away with no bkb, then it might be worth a try?
Sven has a pretty static item build most of the times. Boots, blink, bkb, crit item, mask of madness, sny. I don't see solar crest being good enough to replace any of those items, and if you were to replace an item, it'd be sny for something like an ac, heart, linkens, or even rapier.
@Snu, there's nothing unique about Sven's cleave. All cleaves ignore armor but not armor type.
Cleave does not ignore damage block.
You get AC for sieging and 5 manning.
Also, getting a quelling blade in lane, and attacking a lane creep with cleave will deal more cleave damage to any opposing heroes.
False. This was a case with tidebringer in DotA 1, hence why kunkka wasn't allowed a quelling blade, but it is not the case in DOTA 2 since devs have more power over cleave mechanics.
Seriously, why do people perpetuate myths like this?
Actually, quell's bonus damage does get calculated in cleaves.
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Cleave
http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Quelling_Blade
Oh right, ever since it was changed to static +24 dmg it did work with cleave again. I know something was previously done to make sure the interaction doesn't make it OP with cleave.
I mean... the answer is yes. Sven wants Solar Crest. He just absolutely doesn't want to be the one actually carrying it.
I mean... the answer is yes. Sven wants Solar Crest. He just absolutely doesn't want to be the one actually carrying it.
Well yeah but this is true for literally every hero in the game.
why would zeus not want solar crest on him? More to the point, I can see blademail users not wanting solar crest on them, actually, legion and axe with solar crest buff output LESS damage.
I know you tried to sound really smart, but 20% evasion means your counter helix procs less (since it requires the attack to hit), your MoC procs less, and you get hit less in general which RETURNS LESS DAMAGE. Not because of the armor but because of evasion.
If you have 20% evasion you will ALWAYS RETURN LESS DAMAGE unless blood thorned or everyone hitting you has a MKB.
Only procs when a unit starts an attack against Legion Commander, regardless of distance.
This means canceled or missed attacks can proc it as well.
Although i do admit that in axe's case i am wrong
Hey guys. These are some
Complicated mechanics y'all are discussing. To bad it won't help u play better xd
Ah yes, MoC works different from helix, you're right. But if you are using blademail evasion is still something you don't want most of the time.
Hey guys. These are some
Complicated mechanics y'all are discussing. To bad it won't help u play better xd
Knowledge of mechanics can give you an upper hand in many scenarios.
What's advanced about "You deal less damage if you make your enemies miss their attacks on heroes that relies on being attacked to deal damage"
"Knowledge of mechanics can give you an upper hand in many scenarios."
the most simple would be item choices i think
Fuck no, more like every game, pretty much. Understanding how the game works really lets you make better decisions.
on a support sven (which i think is horrible now) that's definitely a core, especially in the theoretical schenario which you have aghs, since that's increase the PHYSICAL damage of the whole team, so on him it would be like bloodthorn on every other support but much cheaper and that can be used defensively
on carry... i can see the logic behind it, but if i notice something about sven itemization, is that besides BKB, pretty much all of his cookie-cutter build until the 6 slotted serves both purposes of being a power spike AND a farming tool
every item he gets give you a big surge in his dominance, but also is great for clearing camps more rapidly, MoM, armlet, SnY, blink, echo sabre, even HoTD if he decides to get it. they are all amazing for farming
so his itemization is linear to his farming speed. besides rosh, crest doesn't really achieve that on a hero which rely on cleave to farm. and sven known as a really fast farmer, that what his power comes from, he can get really scary really fast. that's also tied to his itemization
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What do you think guys? Sven is anyway physical damage dealer, bbut if you assume cleave mechanics then he deals more damage with cleave if the primary target has less armor. Would not that make Solar Crest super effective on Sven? (midgame)