I think, support on high mmr not always on lane(experience gain area) they could be roam, jungle, and do rotating position,etc
And you know why midas are meta now, kappa
Right, I completely agree and that's what I see encouraged a lot in guides. Even if you're babysitting, XP gains are hard to miss.
I don't mean to be condescending towards supports, but being known as the 'early game' heroes of Dota, I prize hero levels on supports a little more than I do on carries. Anti-Mage reaching level 6 is nice, but it likely won't have as big of an impact in a fight as a Black Hole that turns a teamfight or Overgrowth that saves the carry's life.
ur retarded
a support being a burden or not as nothing to do with levels, its how good the player is and how useful his supporting is, u cud be level 6 at 25 min on some roamer like earthspirit, but if u successfully win every lane for ur team, then u just snowball ur team to victory regardless of ur levels.
Try to understand me. I did say that I'm not saying they should steal the carry's farm. There are tons of ways for supports to get levels, like creep pulling, ganking, taking bounty runes, and de-warding. As others have mentioned, midases are common on supports as well, since they add more XP to a game and now skill trees often have XP bonuses. If necessary, supports can even buy tomes to turn passive gold into XP.
@Road to Crippling Depression Yeah, I wouldn't expect a 600 MMR player to understand what supports are supposed to accomplish.
Supports dont really need levels. Position 5 supps maybe underfarmed and underleveled most times but they're job is to take one for the team so their cores will be stronger. It's quite common, really. In the later stages, it's really all about positioning and how you can contribute that one disable or even being a threat/nuisance to your enemies.
Yes, that's generally what's seen as the par, but I said supports are often level 5 at 15 minutes.
If you really want an answer go play support and don't steal last hits in laning stage. Then you might understand a bit.
Not getting lvl 6 in 15 minutes is bad, but if it's solo support well maybe a Riki, Nyx or Bounty keeps fucking them so it's a sad case.
As long as the support doesn't go Carry KotL and Mid Rubick, I suppose in 3k, we should be grateful.
some real advice, you honestly should not be so underleveled in 3k. because there's ALOT of efficiency loss in the map. now don't compare to 7k games, where supports under level = carry getting good farm. your carry is probably underleveled as well, and will constantly make bad carry decisions. hence if there's any where on the map u can get xp, try to be greedy and get dat xp if you cant get kills
well level 5 at 15 minutes is not actually normal i think, but like reaching 6 at 12 min is fine i think after the exp nerfs and all that
@Cheap Laugh Guy What is your problem with MidRubick? That shit is legit af. Also: Offlane Rubick.
@Road to Crippling Depression A support player that wins lanes won't ever be underleveled unless he/she dies every single time before getting a kill - at which point sooner or later you will ask the question if shit is worth it or not.
@Filthy Weeb ~10-12 mins you should get 6, and don't come with the "pros also..." bullshit - their positioning and decisionmaking skills are lightyears from 3K plebs.
Support is the most complicated role in Dota, it has its pros and cons in terms of complexity. You won't find a good support under 6K imho, unless he/she is climbing and belongs higher whatsoever. In 2-3K people should be grateful if supports buy a courier and don't chainfeed.
Other than that - If you follow the guide of Cookie about CM for example (can be executed for more heroes) -> You are lv4 by minute5 (max) you can smoke-gank-kill -> lv5. You can get level 6 in like 8-9 if you do good rotations. We are talking pos4 here however. It's a bit harder for pos5, since you can't really leave the lane aside from pull and contesting enemy small jungle - dualroaming during nighttime or in smokes (during daytime ppl expect ganks less).
Not having 6 by minute 15 = Your own fault. 99% of the time.
Supports playing in 2-3-4k teams come to me with: I've been stacking for my carry/mid a lot of times, so I couldn't pull - didn't get lane xp - didn't get runes (somehow) - didn't participate in kills.
Question is: So what did you in those 1m30s between pulls??
Still even if this were the case and you were lv2 by minute9 (with an ancient camp of 4 by now); have your Templar mid farm it @shrine and you get lv4-5 in no-time, buy the tome @10 and you are 5-6 by minute 10 easy-peasy. What's wrong?
Note: I am working hard on implementing stuff I read, hear, see, consult with better players than me. It's an evergreen process and you will always have sth to work on. I am by no means near the state I'm seeking to reach as support but [I'll get there. Eventually.]
( https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/dota2.gamepedia.com/6/6e/Treant_move_24.mp3 )
Don't even know how you can't reach level 6 by 11 minute actually. You're perfectly capable of nuking down a small-mid camp yourself after pushing your enemy offlane out, back to base shrine, then tp back to your lane. Rinse and repeat every 2-3 minutes or so. Seriously what's the fuck so hard, your cores don't even farm your camps when the lane equilibrium got fucked/they lost the lane. Tp to one lane, kick out enemy laners, take a camp, rinse and repeat, perfectly doable thing as a pos5, even if your carry picked something like spectre against someone like Axe/SK.
"I'm not a support player myself" - You said it yourself. Play and learn the role to understand.
@bukkake I've played a lot of support matches, but I can't confidently say how good I am as a support. There are a few high-impact supports that I've done great jobs of holding my matches together and I always try to be the support I wish I had, but it's probably not my specialty.
In my case, I try to take as much XP from other lanes as I feel I need without leeching. I'd stay in the safelane and zone the offlaner for a bit and get XP in the process, then I may rotate to gank or zone another lane and keep my growth going, warding and helping teammates where possible.
looks liek supporting is mystery to most of the players in dota... No wonder, I hear so much nonsense from my carries when playing support
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I've noticed a trend in 3k+ MMR games where supports are always falling tremendously behind in levels. I understand that they don't need to farm like carries and they certainly shouldn't try to steal the carry's farm, but I'm having issues in my pubs where our supports can't do much in teamfights because it's 15 minutes into the game and they haven't reached level 6. Even in 6k+ and pro games, the supports seem to hold their teams back because the other team's carries kill them easier than a ranged creep.
I'm not a support player myself, so maybe there's something else to it, but I feel that there's a point where supports should have some relevance in matches aside from buying courier with starting gold and then be a sitting duck for the rest of the match. It's always mentioned in support guides and coaching videos, but often doesn't happen in real matches. Maybe I just don't understand.