because 5k players know how to make ck and dk waste their ult and prevent them from farming.
well you're kinda right lucenzo but both hero needs time to fight when their ulti is up but even without ultimate they can still fight 1/5 of their strenght
When ck and dk ulti up u wanna push and/or fight with it. Tb meta does same thing plus tb can farm much faster and can split push better
ck is just insanely bad compared to meta carries, he has an extremely long cooldown ult that has no cooldown reduction talents, which is his only realiable source of damage in teamfights, and he has no mobility/flashfarming abilities or items whatsoever, he's pretty much garbage atm, which kinda sucks because i love that hero
dk is a very niche pick, same issues as ck but dk becomes more reliable lategame since you cant purge dragonform but can break illusions
dk is a great midas carrier, and ck is not that good
I believe it's because they are not picked a lot, thus they have a low pick rate.
he has an extremely long cooldown ult that has no cooldown reduction talents
He has cooldown reduction,and with aghs his ult cd goes down to a fairly spammable 70-80 seconds. But still farms like shit.
but nikki, diox is actually somewhat right lmao
in a way
their too ulti dependent and situatuational, and in any case almost any other hero can do what they do but better.
dk actually saw some kiev play tho.
guess I'm spamming DK for a change CK sucks maybe because of long cd and illus die pretty much in like 5 sec
Ck isn't picked because he isn't picked....
He's plenty strong enough to play carry.
Just because he can't flash farm creeps doesn't make him rubbish. Besides, max rift let's him farm jungle fairly quickly.
He can pretty much solo kill any hero at any point in the game.
Long CD of ulti but still fragile to AoE skills
You ulti and you lose a fight = You lost the game
Max rift doesnt let you farm significantly faster with that bad int gains of his, but max rift does provide some really strong solo kill potential + illus
6sec pseudoblink and -7 armour significantly speeds up farming. Tread switching gives you enough mana
Hmm its been a long while since I played any 5k games, but IMO CK's Long CD on Phantasm, and poor flash farming abilities make him underwhelming if he gets behind, on the other hand DK I'm not to sure maybe the similar reason others have stated long Dragon Form cd.
The long cooldown argument was always bought up in discussions about Warlock yet he is now one of the most contested picks...
@Rocket I guess its just the flavor of the month sorta thing do what the pros do, if CK suddenly gets pick in the pro scene he becomes viable pick in pubs, I do however think his poor flash farming capabilities is what keeps him being viable in the past he was usually paired up with IO because of sheer amount of killing potential the hero possessed.
7.05
Chaos Knight base damage increased by 50.
"long cd ult no can pick"
7.06
Chaos Knight Crit chance from 10% to 70%
"nope, long cd ult still cant pick".
The answer is that these heroes are overall bad and unpopular, they rarely come up in one's mind during picking and are not picked even in optimal line-ups, unpopularity gives birth to more unpopularity. I, personally, think CK's not bad at all and very well pickable, though, as I said, he doesn't really come up in my mind even when it would be a good pick.
the question "why are they bad" has more answers than atoms in the universe.
I forgot to add that he has a lot of mana issues as well.
@Luxon where are those patch notes?
I see, so IceFrog has been replaced with Aslan.
So do you forsee Luna & Mirana to receive some major buffs?
CK's good, just need the right game.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3163225296
Easiest T7 battlecup finals of my life.
^Don't think anyone is denying CK's Strength, but rather his low pick rate.
Btw nice stomp! Why did you buy Linken's though?
dk is awesome, but as an offlaner. I swear most games are filled with burst line-ups so build an early pipe by 12 - 15 minutes and enjoy free mmr.
Metamorphosis and Dragon Form is somewhat similar tho the only good thing about Metamorphosis is the attack time 1.5 which is great for an agi hero the bonus damage isn't that great and Dragon Form gives you splash/dps/slow the dps is comparable of TB's bonus damage on Metamorphosis and about the cooldown and duration DK wins they have similar usage of the spell pushing/team fights but after that they'll go back into farming that leads to TB's superiority with illus you can pretty much clear a wave with 1 illu and as for DK he's a great midas carrier which benefits him with attack speed and lack of farming potential
on their itemization, TB needs those stats to stay alive longer and it's nice with his illus for DK attack speed items and mobility is pretty much to go to. As for pushing TB seriously can melt tower in few seconds which DK can't welp... you can buy manta on DK for extra dps but it doesn't really benefit him as TB does so with the melee cd on manta which TB can only do manta before Metamorphosis then you'd get 15 less cd and he's an agi as well
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