awww
but it makes vendetta damage (like if very fast lvl 18 from solo offlane and midas) so nice and the agility talent at lvl 15
at any rate, better than dagon?
i think that you should just buy aghs and permastun people!
if you absolutely must play a heavy role in later fights, just go for midas first item after arcanes and then go agh. if you must damage towers you can buy a necronomicon later
well yeah ofc would buy aghs but maybe after deso
vendetta gives you flat bonus damage yeah, but it's physical and is resisted with armor. desolator amplifies that quite a lot and, but i can see it being awkward since you dont normally hit people as nyx when u are burrowed. double vendetta hit at 18 is like 1300 physical dmg, -7 armor i think works.
Pretty sure nyx's job is to cc people so that your teammates can kill them, if they aren't killing them u buy eblade and Dagon 5 and then do it urself xd
well ye i understand it probably only works in lame brackets when u can (and need, if you want to win) kill ppl effectively using vendeta. most teams have a deso on the damage carry anyway so its obviously not needed if there is anyone else in the team that can get it.
dagon 5 costs a lot though and i think a better nyx player than myself would certainly be able to abuse desolator (if otherwise your team would not be playing with it)
right clicking people puts you in much higher risk of dying! if you are dead you can no longer stun everyone, and you expose yourself and thus cannot blink 5 man stun
the question ur asking is very silly
if im cm, and my team has no carrier, do i build right click dps? no thats dumb. the heros skills and stats have minimal synergy with right click and you would have higher impact with a caster build
yep i do see that and that is i think the main issue, like that you just stay burrowed and not right click people
also i think if a skilled player would play this he could make it work with spiked carapace maybe and get away, maybe in a longer game (if team lacks damage(? all pick pub without a coordinated draft ? ) and maybe nyx is durable enough to withstand fights even hitting ppl would still do respectable dmg on the nyx -- but once again i know hes not picked for the dmg ).
i just try this in a lame pub and it rly does a lot of damage like almost 1 punch kill supports
i think the only case where you get deso is when your six slotted you have extra money lying around and no one else on your team can carry one and I would use it to help push switching it out with another item when your not pushing. Otherwise there are just better items that will do more for your team.
well hope i dont deserve report for making the deso in team of spec sniper naga cores
more of a fighting item, not siege
ye well if you do 1300 dmg with those 2-3 right clicks it can be useful? team benefits from deso too (which is the main reason you would buy it i guess, like a lot of illusions who can hit everyone.. their dmg scales directly with armor)
pretty sure you gain more overall dmg from deso than from dagon, and deso is quite cheaper (only you can dagon from burrow)
ye i guess thanks guys can still do it for the lols in the potato bracket
like some od with a similar net-worth you can easily pick off with just basically a deso and vendetta in 1v1 (i say potato bracket, good od wont die to your lvl 6 rotation all the time) if you hit your spells too at least.
if any hero could consistantly do 1300 hero damage in 1-3 hits with only a deso, he'd be ridiculously op
nyx can't even come close to that unless he's fully slotted with rapiers or somshit
i mean nyx does like 1300 physical damage with 2 right clicks if he uses vendetta on both of them (which is possible at lvl 18)
deso reduces the armor by 7 meaning some heroes can even take teh full damage of that.
thats reliable dmg with just a deso, more items give him more dmg ofc
so you pay 3500g to increase your ultimate combo damage by 30% at possible best given the theoretical ideal fight where you're running around with 10 seconds left on your ult duration
which is about 250 damage per ult increase
yep, not a waste of gold at all
and that's in ideal conditions which are ridiculous to find
in a realistic scenario, enemy has way more levels/items and about 30+ armor, and your 7 armor reduction almost did nothing
so you're paying 3.5k gold to get about 30 dps
well, can still get it fairly early so its possible to abuse power spike if you have deso as soon as you hit 18 and you get it from solo experience and midas asap i guess... but i dont know rly, it helps your team too. like people that buy dagon its almost the same aspect... with deso you can at least freely kill any support too but i think if buy it should be gotten if your carry benefits from it a lot and cant buy it himself.
or is it rly better in 99% of cases to just buy something else and let your team play without a deso
thats reliable dmg with just a deso, more items give him more dmg ofc
On what planet is that reliable, good god.
well, almost as reliable as pretty much any other physical attack damage.... its just heavy burst and cooldown kinda
i guess thats not too unreliable if you get it right situation and right place right time. (not saying im able to do that myself, though...)
it's as un reliable as it gets
as NYX is not a pos 1-2 damage dealer
he's a pos 3
pos 3 does some medium damage with the abilities
but POS 3 is setup and crowd control, example i can get 20 items that give me damage as an sk and still not be as efficient as having 3 that position me and/or cc the enemy
pos 3 is setup disable(ex stun) or followup disable with some smaller mid game damage burst
he's not a late game carry nor is he an reliable damage dealing role
your idea about the game is so goddamn annoyingly fucked up, you only look at the mechanics, never about the behavior of the players
you'll never move if you only consider best possible imaginable unrealistic scenarios where your enemies don't have abilties nor brains.
you aren't playing against ragdolls, you're playing against other people
Utility items also surpass damage items on heroes who don't right click. I'm pretty sure that even in a lot of slardar games it's better to have blink force staff and euls instead of blink and armlet just because that's how the game goes, you aren't going to right click anybody, but your team desperately needs your utility. Some games you just go full retard with blink armlet bkb ac. Some games the enemy has axe who needs to be euls'd and nobody else is making euls on your team, so it ends up being your job as a 3rd farming core, an offlaner.
So I am pretty sure getting a euls beats deso on nyx, even though it's by no means standard (well, you can setup stun, kinda).
Deso is most effective when gotten early, and if you get it over blink, force staff, midas, aghs or whatever item that's actually good for nyx, you're basically throwing.
pos 3 is setup disable(ex stun) or followup disable with some smaller mid game damage burst
he's not a late game carry nor is he an reliable damage dealing role
*cries in the corner*
yea i absolutely agree, but also in some games your team doesnt pick enough physical hard damage or really have problem with squishy heroes like tinker or some support
On what earth is nyx going to make up for the lack of physical damage? You can't hit people more than 2-3 times without getting disabled/killed, items don't exist in a vacuum, etc.
Also if you need more physical damage just get a fucking necro, the item's actually really good, gives you a degree of safety and utility, lets you even split push a bit, etc. Instead of that you try to improve your non-existing right click ability to be competitive with the enemy alchemist and terrorblade? Yeah, great fucking idea. I can 100% guarantee that well micro'd necros at lvl1 will deal waaaaaay more damage than an item that's some 800 gold more expensive. So while rushing a necro is stupid as fuck in most cases, getting it over deso is 100x better.
Items don't exist in a fucking vacuum, 3500 gold is a lot, especially for a hero who can't farm well, spending 700 more gold you can get a fucking aghs which is a core item on this hero for a reason.
well ofc you dont buy it against somewhat durable or resistant cores like terrorblade or alchemist but lets say against an ember or invoker could surely do some extra harm.
a few hits from like troll or some other physical carry (like even terrorblade) on top of your deso vendetta and stun would already be bringing those cores down.
that was just a bullshit statement anyways
besides timbersaw, at certain patches the most efficient offlaners were lone druid, enchantress, weaver, bb (well, this one was on the stage very lo ago, but...). all of them transition into carries, or id say are initially carry type heroes, despite going off.
Why the fuck would you need deso against invoker, JESUS CHRIST. Nyx counters invoker by default, petty much everything he does. He dumpsters him in lane cause invoker will never have mana to do anything, he fucks his AoEs with carapace, he can find him jungling and solo kill him without any fucking items. If you buy deso against invoker, you're literally retarded.
That being said, you should be able to kill ember anyway because he has no HP, you can even use carapace to stun him if he uses flameguard, and if he doesn't, you can still stun him and dumpster him very often. That and you could rotate with somebody to kill him, you don't play nyx so you can gank alone, but because you enable your team to gank people who are dangerous when not CC'd.
yeah you should be able to kill those heroes without deso, btu with deso im pretty sure you can almost 100% kill them especially if you have a teammate.
probably excessive, but i suppose it's not a completely dumpster tier item if your team is somewhat ahead and its a useful pickup.
i dont think nyx can easily solo-kill an invoker if invokers ahead in farm and nyx has like blink-aetherlens for his items
deso adds a bit more like 50 dmg per right click at least so it kinda adds up to better solo kill stuff xd
It is, it is a dumpster tier item in practically any situation, because that's 3500 gold that could've gone somewhere else. This is like arguing that rapier is good on meepo because if your team is 40-0 he is very unlikely to drop it and instead he finishes the game by destroying rax. Now let's ignore the fact he could've got an ethereal blade and had some gold remaining if he just went for the standard build, all without the risk of losing the rapier, and without throwing the game by buying stupid items (also, etheral blade gives meepo more DPS than a fucking rapier, in most situations).
yea, because they were lane stompers back in their day
so you can get away with having them as they'd win their lane almost always
that doesn't change the majority's role
you're not gonna run afk farm an offlaner for 30 minutes so that he gets 6 slotted while your carry has nothing.
mm yea i assume it would be an extremely situational pickup, if we arent talking about dogshit lvl dota... deso isnt a full carry lategame item anyway though, its more like fuck that guy in particular.
hmm maybe i should try solar crest next time instead of deso that might be better
however if u got no right click dmg at all ppl can just pop bkb and ur useless for 8-9 seconds in fight
deso is a mid-lategame pushing&fighting item mostly used on rightclick dependant carries
if you throw away a deso for something better it's already super lategame
ye but you dont really want to have it on a hard carry lategame either, since while the debuff is extremely strong the item isnt slot efficient for a carry
its like buying it on riki since he does mostly physical damage, even though hes not played as carry...
have you considered playing clinkz, if you want deso that much, you should be able to kill anyone with medallion and deso in shit tier dota
deso riki is actually pretty good, with your ult you can apply it to everyone, so he definitely has a synergy for it
well ofc if you split push its different but if you go push with team im sure at least at super lategame youd rather have deso on a 3-5 position or am i wrong? if the hero can apply it on your target.
also this topic is about "IF THERE ARE NO ALTERNATE CARRIERS IN TEAM", like in 80% or so games there is a phantom assassin or naix or some other trending desolator carry who buys it and you don't have to buy it on nyx in order to push and kill as efficiently as possible.
It's not imperative to have deso on your team every single game, as much as it is not imperative to have a necro III. DotA is about optimizing what you can do with what you have, and getting more in order to win the game. Desolator fits into this idea if the hero is particularly suited for it (ta and pa, sometimes naix, legion and wk), if the hero is not particularly suited for an item, you're not being efficient, and this leads to having lower chances of fulfilling your purpose in the game and winning it.
Even if you need more magic damage you still don't get dagon 5 on sven. Even if nobody has a desolator, you still don't build one on nyx.
dagon 5 on sven isnt exactly a fair comparison though, nyxs ultimate does huge burst physical damage whereas dagon 5 has no synergy with svens playstyle whatsoever.
i guess i just play low level pubs and i have to kill heroes as nyx not just sit back and let my carry annihilate a hexed and stunned target
necro 3 might seem rly nice though especially if need detection. deso and necro 3 work together though, and i doubt you can beat deso necro 3 burst-ish damage output on nyx without dagon 5 or bloodthorn
but once again nyx isnt picked for the damage and only relative if you play in shit bracket and need to kill people on your own...
Actually. It work perfecrtly with ur logic. Svenska hammer does a ton of magic damage... why not buy veil on him? Literally the same thought process. U can one shot people theoretically with veIL ethereal and dagon with sven. And by ur logic. If your team doesn't have magic damage, or no good veil carriers, you shold buy it, at least in dumpster teir
if you need to win completely on your own in trash tier you simply pick heroes that are suited for that
nyx not being one of them
hell, no hero that does not hit towers is one of them
mkb is still shit against PA as nyx because you already have true strike on vendetta
^^^Because it is mostly right-clicks that take down towers and if
if there are no other potential carriers in team
OP You're probably GGed
I like the +25 Agi too hmmm
Yeah sure deso diffusal bloodthorn eye of skadi
ethereal and dagon still there
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if there are no other potential carriers in team