Yeah, that's what I do, but instead of selling it, you could've had a hyperstone and built it into an AC or even a moonshard.
I am mostly confused with "echo sabre and crits" shit people are talking about because I don't see how you get to have both a crit and echo sabre in your inventory, without sacrificing something that's really important to the hero.
The double attack has the ability to proc chance-based attacks immediately, increases burst damage drastically (often more important than total dps) and provides significant hp and mana on top of the direct-dps bonuses. You're not wrong to consider the hyperstone replacement but i think the argument validly extends well beyond aspeed and dps (and also the cd of sabre is 5s iirc). Inlate game definitely sell echo saber for ac or something
Yeah, but the only chance-based proc you'll get on Sven are crits, and I have yet to have both crit and echo sabre in my inventory, which is why I am so confused. It's obviuous why it's good on Slark, he has no hard disable, slow's really good, double essence shift is really good, and so on, and slarks like to weave in and out of fights which lets you use the echo sabre on every initiation, but I feel like the way sven fights, echo sabre won't give you an additional attack past a hyperstone if you just blink stun somebody and start pounding them. Of course, if you are chasing somebody, the slow from Echo Sabre will kick in, and you'll have mana for one more stun, but unless you have some good support or build anti kiting, you're very rarely going to chase somebody as Sven.
On the other hand, I just saw this http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2665744446 which shows how you can dominate the game as Sven and dish out tons of damage without any attack speed items. I will actually have to just suck it up and try, since it obviously works.
I am not questioning the logic behind the item as far as it goes on heroes that build basher (where it basically gives a 50% bash on the first hit), I am just wondering about this because it feels so weird on Sven.
damage, hp, Attack speed increase, mana, mana regen and a mini slow, all rolled up into one for sven. Hyperstone guarantees a constant AS increase but it gives just that, unlike echo sabre which has more benefits in the early game. It's not really the "OMG crit echo sabre", it's more of the stats it gives.
echo sabre is by far better than hyperstone
for the initial jump in u have much more burst
then 5s later u are guaranteed a followon hit if u can hit someone once
and echo gives u more than just the double hit. for sven it is 35/40/45 damage in ult, 200 hp, 120 mana, and attack speed
u will keep echo in ur inventory for so long that the fact it is a dead end item doesn't matter
actually its the besz hero for this item. ur argumentation of bashes can be made with crits too. 2 hits is often a guaranteed crit.
You hit a guy twice first before stunning him 1 sec later instead of instastun and hit him
Only works on poor supports tho
Thanks for the replies guys, guess I will keep it in inventory until I finish an actual 6 slot item. It just feels kinda awkward going from it into AC while not carrying a hyperstone around, guess I was too used to selling an item and getting ac by going hyperstone first, and echo saber changes that by being an item superior to a lone hyperstone in my inventory, but probably inferior to a completed AC, as far as sieging towers goes (and I want to have AC before going highground, because it just makes things easier).
Also I am pretty sure Tiny is the best hero for this item, since it goes well with ava-toss combo and tiny is much more about burst in general.
Way too good not to get it, you can easily have treads + dom + echo + blink + crystalys in 20-25 minutes if you had a decent lane and you stacked ancients. At that point nobody can really fight you because you can initiate on whoever you want and delete that one, 10 seconds later you will have your stun and blink ready to kill another one.
Daedalus > AC on sven, you already have a lot of armor from your e.
Your go to build should be -> treads, echo, blink, daedalus, satanic. That leaves you 1 slot for bkb most of the times, mkb if there's evasion, AC if there is a slardar, ta or whatever, heart is really good since it buffs base damage that buffs ultimate damage. If later on you need 2 of those last items, you should sell the echo and get that item.
There is also the s&y build or the armlet build but I'm not really a fan of them since the echo sabre introduction, the item is just too good nowadays I expect heavy nerfs on the item.
its quite common to just straight up kill supports from blink double sabre hit without any stun
also you clear waves in 2-3 hits, so echo sabre beats hyperstone in farming
basically just from the double hit alone its way superior than hyperstone, then add in the slows + other stats it gives there is no question whatsoever, hyperstone only better for ancients/rs/towers
I think one nerf is gonna be a "bug fix", I guess you noticed that you get 2 slows from the echo sabre proc, 1 for the first attack and another for the second, I think they're gonna make it slow only once, because you can even cancel your second attack animation in order to maximise the slows.
Another nerf could be on the cd, and another would be to add a recipe for the item to make it cost 3k gold.
It's got stats too, it's a great item, not just the double attack. though I did play with a sven who rushed boots of travel and had no attack speed items and it was a painful game. He couldn't hit anyone after echo sabre hit.
Ac and hyperstone dont give you the mana regen that you need. Agreed, sven is a slot starving hero but he is also a mana starving hero. The mana regen that sabre provides really solves svens mana problem in mid game. And when the game goes late, just sell it and buy ac or moonshard.
Please sign in to post comments.
Considering the fact that MoM's nerf to the ground made it even less usable on Sven some patches ago, naturally you are less likely to build some attack speed aside from an occasional yasha into SnY if you're seriously getting kited. If we take into an account that you have no attack speed boosts in teamfights (aside from an occasional drums charge), how does a casual hyperstone fare in comparison to Echo Sabre? I don't really see it as a legit 6 slot item considering the fact that Sven is so slot starved yet farms so rapidly, but at the same time I wonder if I am often better off with just a hyperstone.
What you do with Sven is basically blink stun into hitting people, so you do not really get to use the Echo Sabre's slow. Of course, I guess Echo Sabre is pretty good if you go full on racecar Sven with BoTs, Drums and SnY, but that's kinda all in on the midgame.
I haven't played for a long time before starting to play dota again, so I might be missing something here, but I feel that hyperstone into AC is much better for the lategame compared to just getting such a low cost item (2.6k gold) on a hero that can get six slotted very fast, instead of going for something that builds for lategame (hyperstone into a moonshard or AC).
What I do get is that you can farm really fast if you let the echo sabre cool down while walking between camps, and especially so if you already went for a yasha so your move speed is really good, but I just don't feel it does much more than a hyperstone would (aside from mana pool and regen which is something Sven is also starved for).
I see a lot of posts with "Echo Sabre and Crits, bro!", but I don't see how you'll get to have both an Echo Sabre and crit at the same time, considering how slot starved Sven is.
You REALLY need a BKB most games, blink is too good to skip, you need boots, and that's three slots for initiation, magic resistance and movement speed. Then you have three slots remaining. One will be reserved for the dominator for stacking and sustain while farming. For the two remaining slots you can go for an AC which basically makes your team immune to physical damage coupled with warcry, you can go for Daedalus which boosts your damage tremendously, and you'll likely go for a Satanic at some point, built up from the helm. But that's 6 freaking slots right there, and you kind of need all of those things. And that is considering you have BoTs because you have no slots for TPs at that point.
So which slot does Echo Sabre replace? The most obvious candidate is AC, but I feel AC is way too good in general, though warcry can make up for it with 50% uptime.