General Discussion

General Discussionhow to play support?

how to play support? in General Discussion
consistency

    hello guys , i read from alot of people that to win games in lower brackets you need to outfarm everyone , so i spent alot of my time practicing & watching videos of bsj about farming & lane pulling at 53 sec & that increased my farming speed greatly , i can time core items as good as people do in the higher brackets & end up with high cs scores at min 10. BUT that doesnt work always , alot of times i get no support in lane so im solo & they gone duo offlane & jungler , sometimes i get harassed heavily & can't farm , sometimes im farming good but my mid goes 0-7 in laning stage & enemy team snowball , so now since nobody know how to play support at lower brackets i want to play this role & especially omniknight , 2k games consists of 10 retards fighting each others & the more farmed retard usually wins , so my job as omni is to help my carry get fed to win the game.

    My question is , how do you play support ? im really not that good at the role & i always find my self behind in items & farm because i let carry take everything in lane & i only focus on harass / deny & pulls. Sometimes i try to retreat to the jungle or farm an empty lane when my team mates r somewhere else but the problem with this is most of the time when i do that my team starts team fighting even if im telling them to get back so i drop my farm & go to help them. Not to mention supporting in 2k means solo support & buying wards & courier & sometimes dust & sentries if they have invis heroes is not an easy tasks ( shotouts to supports players out there tough life )

    so how do you secure your farm while still being there when team needs you , don't tell me carry tp pls , you know how ppl tend to dive in enemy jungle & shit you can't rlly tp there without BoT 2. Omni is a great support late game if he gets alot of gold to buy luxury items so im rlly interested in how to do it

    Soultrap

      Supports don't farm, we get gold from assists and destroyed buildings.

      As Omniknight you just sit in lane and watch how your carry farms. Get a courier and upgrade it, but don't buy wards before you get your arcane boots. Normal skill players can't watch at minimap and farm at the same time, so observer wards will be wasted. But after some time you can buy some wards and try to place them behind enemy towers.

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      Henrijs

        If you don't know anything about supporting 1st watch some ward placing video

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        dead

          pick riki ez roam ez gold ez items, or just rush build midas kappa

          M U R D E R

            Dont play omniknight, i dont like him for some reason. One of reasons being he cant really zone well. As a ranged support you can ecen zone 2 people in your lane, as a melee youre lucly if you can zone one. Also omniknight relies on allies, so thats quite bad imo. Try maybe witch doctor, in your bracket once you improve you will easy kill entire teams with your ulti.

            Hanamichi Sakuragi

              You can secure your farm by double pulling. You need to know when to rotate and when/where to gank.
              Now then to secure your carries farm you need to zone them out, I know in 2k they don't go 3-1-1 so I'm assuming its 2-1-2.
              To zone two heroes out of the lane you need to know how to handle creep aggro. You can force them to come closer using this.
              Since they are fighting (since its 2k) for last hits, you need to start hitting your half life creep as soon as possible then ensure denying it.
              Now then, about roaming, if you go roam you need to be efficient as possible, stacking camps, managing mana and health, and ganks.
              For dewarding, DO NOT PUT IT ON THE WARD SPOT ITSELF, place it in the middle of where two ward spots can be reached.
              I've seen alot people place observers and sentries on the same spot and it is really annoying. Dying as a support is fine if no one on the enemy team gets the experience, for example, you gank an Invoker and you killed him under the tower before you died. He gets not exp and less gold since you are a support with 179 gpm in the early game. As a solo support you can be as sacrificial as you want.
              When they are chasing your carry 1v5 and you just suddenly throw your body away they would not think twice to kill or not to kill you.
              If you see an Alchemist for example, closing in under your highground (at mid) there it is, that is a potential gank right there.
              Smoking in the early game is really good in any bracket I think, ensures you a kill always in mid. If you got caught smoking under their wards, it gives them pressure on whether to back or not, so two lanes will be cautious and be missing last hits a lot more.
              If the enemy has jungler, ruin his life, don't forget to talk in all chat to ruin his day. Buying all the sentries and observers by yourself is really hard, so do not always buy all the wards, you just need to ensure in the early game that you at least have two obs placed.
              When buying sentries it is always worth it, it basically removes Riki's Invi which makes him a hero with 3 skills only. Do not let it get to the point where the enemies are snowballing and you buy all the support items you can buy. Whenever you tp from your fountain to mid, make sure that you can ask your midder to drop his bottle so that you can refill it. If he is dumb then don't mind him.
              There are cases where in being a greedy support can be good, only do it if you think your lanes will do good by themselves.
              But the best solo support playstyle is the sacrificial one, it can balance the comeback mechanics dota has and actually help the team.
              Do you see your carry or core suffering? Never forget bringing a salve along with you. Your early items should be as efficient as possible.
              If somehow the lane fucks up with you there the efficiency you invested in your items will never be wasted. The real fun behind being a solo support is your team and the enemy team will praise and actually commend you for it if you are kind and good enough.

              This is a really long guide for you. I hope you take your time reading it. I'm not VHS or anything but atleast I know the feel of a solo support in 2k. Good luck boosting your team's mmr and have fun.

              Celine

                Don't farm
                Don't fuck up lane equilibrium by AAing every fucking creep (NS supports xd)
                Stacking isn't a priority in low level games but u can do that if u want to
                Call for smoke ganks and u buy the smokes ofc
                Plant wards
                Dont let your carry focuses too much on getting detection,its your job
                Stay back in team fight
                Help your carries in teamfight
                TP on any lane where the enemy might kill your teammate instantly

                Celine

                  I met some good carries before but I rarely see good supports
                  Being one is a good advantage

                  BADMAN

                    Just go syack and pull ward tat all

                    casual gamer

                      rape enemy offlaner so ur carry gets ez farm. easy with swm/sd

                      secure every rune because inv/haste can kill their mid and win that lane

                      stack pull for farm, spam stack large camp for some carries

                      buy STICK + RAINDROP, carry tp always

                      do not tp into a lane because u will put tp on cd. save it for when u need to react to something

                      i usually end up playing more like of a 5 than a 4. regardless, 1 of the 2 supports needs a set of sentries at min 0. a lot of the time i walk to lane with just 2 tangos and a clarity or smoke

                      IF UR PLAYING VS RIKI, BH GIVE UR MID 1 SENTRY AND RUN TO GUARD UR LARGE CAMP BEFORE THEY WARD IT

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                      consistency

                        thanks all for the answers especially Farix Eltozen !

                        what are the best starting items for omniknight? i usually buy cour , 2 wards , tango , mango & recipe for soul ring so i dont have to use courier & let it for mid

                        PS: also can you check my omniknight games to see build/items etc , i have 64% winrate with him

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                        TheMaverick427

                          Supporting in 2K is very different to what you'll see pros or anyone 5K+ doing in their games.
                          Firstly, I see a lot of 2K supports doing things they think are helping, but actually aren't so i'll point out those things first.
                          1) They focus only on pulling and walking to runes. Yes both these things are good, but while you're not in lane, your carry is alone vs two heroes (Unless they have a jungler which is fairly common of if they triplane which is uncommon). So while you're busy in the jungle, your carry might be getting bullied away from the creeps and get no farm at all. Keep track of how your carry is doing. If hes okay alone, then you can go do other things. If he's constantly being pressured then stay in lane and try zone the enemy or at least stop him from dying if they have good kill potential.
                          2) Single pulling the small camp. Most 2K supps pull the small camp and think they're doing a good job. What actually happens is that the small camp kills half your creepwave, the other two creeps return to lane just as your next wave arrives and you end up with a big wave that pushes to their tower and puts you in a dangerous place. When pulling there are 3 ways to do it without screwing over your carry. The easiest one to learn is to stack the small camp first and then pull it. You can stack it right as the game starts at the 53 seconds mark and then pull the next wave, killing the whole wave and pulling your lane back. You can also do a through pull instead where you pull the Unstacked small camp and then cut one of the trees at the back and pull the large camp to the small camp catching your creeps just as they finish off the small camp. Finally you can pull the large camp to the lane through 2 different routes and draw your creeps directly to the large camp. Remember to LAST HIT THE JUNGLE CREEPS when you pull as this gets you money. If your carry has time between waves let him come grab the last hits instead.
                          3) While we're on the topic of pulling, don't pull the lane when its already close to your tower or if the enemy has a large wave that will push to your tower any way. This just makes your tower take more damage and then you lose the tower really early and your carry isn't safe.
                          4) Ganking with supports that are poor gankers. Heroes like Omniknight or Abaddon can be good supports but they're generally not good gankers. Don't waste your time trying to gank mid (or anywhere else) if your hero is a poor ganker. You should still tp to another lane if the enemy try dive the tower because this may get you a return kill or should at least save the hero they're diving. Also if the enemy is playing really aggressive and is constantly by your towers then you can try gank him. But don't waste too much time on it and if it fails don't keep trying and wasting more time.
                          5) They don't carry a TP. you must ALWAYS have a TP on you. If you're at base or the side shop, buy two.
                          6) Warding the same spot that's just been dewarded or warding somewhere that isn't useful. If the enemy dewards one of your wards, don't put it in the same spot (Obviously). Also don't waste wards on places that aren't important. If youre constantly pushing don't bother putting a defensive ward on your jungle cliff because your team wont be there anyway. If you are trapped on your side of the map and you don't have any heroes who can gank well then don't waste a ward on their jungle. Ward where your team needs it.
                          7) Stacking Camps inappropriately. In general stacking camps is good. Except when its not. If you don't have anyone on your team who can clear stacks then stacking can actually hurt your team. Carries such as Spectre or Chaos Knight simply cannot deal with stacks until they have certain items. Stacking too early will actually slow their farm. (Also in 2K carries don't always know the limit to their heroes and are likely to die trying to farm a large stack making them lose more gold). Also don't stack if the enemy has control of your jungle because then you're just giving stacks to the enemy.
                          8) Rushing Aghs/Dagon/Bloodstone/Octarine. Having items is nice, I understand especially when they're big fun items. But youre a support. You wont get those large items until very late, if ever and they just make you less useful for most of the game. A support with an Urn and Arcane boots is far more useful and more likely to win than a support with brown boots and half an aghs. If you and your team already have all those great team items like arcanes, Mek and Urn then you can go for a big item assuming you don't need something like a force staff or an ghost sceptre first.

                          Those are some of the main mistakes I see people make in 2K and the biggest problem is that often they don't realise they're doing something wrong and so they never fix their mistakes and improve.

                          PMS Mantra

                            I've tried both hard support and hard carrying, but what seems to work best for me is playing position 4 play maker. I let people play where they're mostly comfortable and push when they feel like it. In the mean time, I make sure we have a good initiation hero and win team fights and generally take care of the warding (I don't like where people in the 2k bracket seem to think needs warding).

                            That is to say, when I play support. Maybe position 5 defensive support is where you'll find your niche. It certainly works for some people.

                            TripleSteal-

                              im lil busy, but generally quite a few of things mentioned in the posts above are not correct

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                              consistency

                                what are good ganking supports ? i tried cm for a bit but i have 30% winrate on her

                                Soultrap

                                  Ganking support is Earth Spirit, Riki, BH or anyone with invis rune.

                                  MARLAN

                                    1) stand behind your carry.

                                    2) don't pull/stack/harass/gank, just stand behind ur carry and watch him, and leech exp, u need exp to win. make sure you hit his creeps once in awhile just to trigger/tilt him.

                                    3) die 15 times to their overfarmed and overleveled offlaner

                                    4) flame your carry for not carrying you.

                                    consistency

                                      @soultrap i used to be good with riki but ever since he became a support i dont win as much with him even when i try to play him support , i do no dmg early game & diffusal only come around 20 min , i should try BH actually since he does way more dmg than riki with less items needed

                                      Mekarazium
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                                        PMS Mantra

                                          Kunkka is a good ganking support, but no one seems to play him as aether pos. 4 Kunkka anymore.

                                          Edit: Oh! And Skywrath is AMAZING at ganking early game.

                                          Nightstalker is pretty good at ganking too, starting at minute 4, as a position 4 lane leech or jungler.

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                                          Nightmare-

                                            EZ just buy WARDS and FEED :D

                                            miekuah-P

                                              Skyrekt Mage is hilarious support his skill set can make him a sub-carry in late game

                                              Lokieleven

                                                Omni can zone out in this meta of there always being a jungler. Omni can walk up and hit the enemy offlaner. If it is a duel offlane then sky or silencer too zone them out. Just 2-0-1 with omni to zone out most solo offlaners.

                                                Celine

                                                  On our level bounty hunter is AMAZING
                                                  Deathmatch fest = easy snowball with track
                                                  Invis = more gold spent for the enemy team which usually consists of 4 carry anyway

                                                  Hanamichi Sakuragi

                                                    I see in your Omniknight games you go for Arcane Boots and Soul Ring.
                                                    You can drop Arcane Boots then use Soul Ring to get more mana. A little tip there if you didn't know.
                                                    You do not consider situational stuff like Pipes, Crimson Guard's Glimmer Cape's and Force Staff's
                                                    You lost some games because of buying the same items over and over again. I think Aether Lens can be core on Omniknight imho.
                                                    Magic Wand is a must in early game as well as Raindrops, Force Staff can be core on Omniknight as well.
                                                    I'm not telling you to not to do your usual routine, you need to decide if it's gonna be good for the game or not.

                                                    Celine

                                                      "WHY DOES NOBODY HAS A FORCE STAFF" -Arteezy 2015